Deciding on bolt-on FMIC / intercooler

[Cozy]

Originally Posted by Fed P

I was looking at it over at HPA:

http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-135I-335I...4-N55-FMIC.htm

It says no cutting etc, but as it turned out Helix does require a bit on the 135i and the Wagner is supposedly a copy, so I have my doubts...

Technically yes, it is a 'copy' of the Helix but the direct fit Wagner intercooler is smaller than Helix's so fits within the space left behind the bumper. The larger Wagner intercooler is around the same size as the Helix and will require cutting. I think you're worrying too much over this, Wagner designed this intercooler to be a literal direct swap bolt-on and guarantee that in their ad...if it turns out you have to shave something then I'd say you're entitled to your money back. I've read threads of guys fitting this intercooler on their drive in 30mins.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Fed P

I was looking at it over at HPA:

http://www.hpashop.com/BMW-135I-335I...4-N55-FMIC.htm

It says no cutting etc, but as it turned out Helix does require a bit on the 135i and the Wagner is supposedly a copy, so I have my doubts...

I'm not a huge fan of the ETS, I don't know what it is about it to be honest but somehow it doesn't seem very high quality. The Forge units look significantly more polished (not as in shiny, but as in attention to detail). But the Forge is really expensive...

Has anyone here done an install of the ER Competition intercooler on their 135i? Lots of cutting?

The Helix only requires a very minor bit of trimming up near the ambient air sensor on the 135i and no trimming on the 335i.

[Fed P]

To be honest the bickering of Helix at Wagner for copying their design and the possibility of Wagner copying Helix put me off both products in the end. I'm sure the Helix is great since it's run by the top tuners, so I'm not doubting performance.

ETS 5" apparently has a not-so-favourable design, which left me with Forge, which was 855 USD (cheapest I could find). Given that better performing coolers that require trimming were available for less, my head nearly exploded and I decided to give up and try to deal with the trimming aspect and got the ER Competition FMIC cause there was a great deal on it (749 USD). I plan to install it over the NY holidays, along with downpipes, RB Turbos and possibly doing other stuff (carbon cleaning for one). I'm gonna be doing all of this myself with the help of my wife and I will try my best to take photos and put up some DIYs in the end.

[Cozy]

Originally Posted by Fed P

I plan to install it over the NY holidays, along with downpipes, RB Turbos and possibly doing other stuff (carbon cleaning for one). I'm gonna be doing all of this myself with the help of my wife and I will try my best to take photos and put up some DIYs in the end.

Perfect woman, hold on to that one

"Excuse me dear, would you care to pass me the other RB, please?"

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Fed P

To be honest the bickering of Helix at Wagner for copying their design and the possibility of Wagner copying Helix put me off both products in the end. I'm sure the Helix is great since it's run by the top tuners, so I'm not doubting performance...

I don't see how Helix can claim they invented the stepped FMIC. (maybe they were the first to sell on in the states). ?

Manhart Racing GmbH also has a stepped FMIC design. For Helix to make those claims is like them taking credit for a round wheel. Still... I wouldn't let that deter your FMIC decision.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I don't see how Helix can claim they invented the stepped FMIC. (maybe they were the first to sell on in the states). ?

Manhart Racing GmbH also has a stepped FMIC design. For Helix to make those claims is like them taking credit for a round wheel. Still... I wouldn't let that deter your FMIC decision.

Please show me a stepped core intercooler prior to the Helix, which is when I came up with the idea. I hadn't ever seen the manhart intercooler before this week and I have been on the forums for years!

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

Please show me a stepped core intercooler prior to the Helix, which is when I came up with the idea. I hadn't ever seen the manhart intercooler before this week and I have been on the forums for years!

I asked Mannhart about it. They thought you claim to "inventing" a stepped intercooler was pretty ridiculous. They were the ones who made the joke about your claim (to the stepped fmic) being alike to saying you also invented the round wheel. Mannhart's FMIC has been around for quite some time. Not sure when they came out with it though.

You can see my photos here from Mannhart... (scroll down about half way thru the pics)

euro 1Addicts visit Manhart Racing GmbH...
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732251

Mannhart's stepped FMIC with factory connectors...






PS: Btw... I have posted these Mannhart FMIC pics many times before. I guess you just have missed them. We visited Mannhart back in August of this year.

[Tee-Dub]

Holy Hell, that shop is awesome!

[Simon_135i]

Mannhart stepped inter-cooler came before Helix stepped inter-cooler???? WTF, am I misunderstanding something??

[BBBluey]

One of those with a smiley face in the middle would be nice.

[Colt]

Originally Posted by Simon_135i

Mannhart stepped inter-cooler came before Helix stepped inter-cooler???? WTF, am I misunderstanding something??

I don't know either. Or how much that Mannhart piece is ($)...looks like 3" inlet/outlet from pictures, maybe smaller inlet? . I think my Active Autowerke Sport FMIC is like 2.25"

That intercooler looks incredible

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Simon_135i

Mannhart stepped inter-cooler came before Helix stepped inter-cooler???? WTF, am I misunderstanding something??

Yeah kind of hysterical huh? Interestingly all these stepped core intercoolers are in the same markets Helix is in(mini,BMW) and never get shown until ours are released for sale... Again I state show me a stepped core intercooler(hell even show me where the term Stepped Core Intercooler was used) circa before my original design back when this car first came out. I actually did develop the concept. I have been involved with turbo cars for about 25yrs now, and had never seen it done before.

Heres a link all the way back to 2007, where I publically stated the concept for the first time:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72029

My original design drawings date back to December 2006!

[FOACAD]

Being someone that is currently in the market for an FMIC, and having looked into:

ETS
Helix
Wagner
Mannhart
Forge
ER

I have to say that because of the last few posts that Helix isnt on my list anymore.

If you came up with the design first, that is fine, but the complete lack of tact and constant condescending tone of your posts makes me not want to buy your product.

[str8shot]

Originally Posted by FOACAD

Being someone that is currently in the market for an FMIC, and having looked into:

ETS
Helix
Wagner
Mannhart
Forge
ER

I have to say that because of the last few posts that Helix isnt on my list anymore.

If you came up with the design first, that is fine, but the complete lack of tact and constant condescending tone of your posts makes me not want to buy your product.

Funny, I have to say I'm MORE interested in the Helix now. I was looking at the ETS 5".

So what trimming does the Helix require exactly on a 135?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by str8shot

Funny, I have to say I'm MORE interested in the Helix now. I was looking at the ETS 5".

So what trimming does the Helix require exactly on a 135?

Only a minor amount of trimming up near the ambient air sensor on the 135i and no trimming on the 335i. I believe that Helix may have some kits in stock-Helix Motorsports 267-335-4337

[Cozy]

To whom that first invented the stepped intercooler (whoever you may be - as per debate(s)),

Personally I couldn't care who invented it first just so long as the one I have works and is durable which I have no doubt any of them are anything but. I understand that it must be frustrating seeing rewards being reaped by other manufacturers on the sales of similar products that you first visualised but perhaps: 1) You should have patented the idea if at all possible & 2) Isn't imitation the finest form of flattery? Now, it's down to you to run with the competitors and get COMPETETIVE at shifting your product and be the best!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by JamJay

To whom that first invented the stepped intercooler (whoever you may be - as per debate(s)),

Personally I couldn't care who invented it first just so long as the one I have works and is durable which I have no doubt any of them are anything but. I understand that it must be frustrating seeing rewards being reaped by other manufacturers on the sales of similar products that you first visualised but perhaps: 1) You should have patented the idea if at all possible & 2) Isn't imitation the finest form of flattery? Now, it's down to you to run with the competitors and get COMPETETIVE at shifting your product and be the best!

Thanks, for the understanding, FYI we do hold a provisional US patent on the concept. however, the cost of pursuing a patent far exceeds in time, $ and effort any possible return from a lawsuit especially from the multiple foreign companies that have copied the concept. In regards to an intercooler choice the Helix has more than proven itself as the best in regards to AIT drop and has also been tested to over 650hp so it's the only intercooler you would ever need.

[Cozy]

I cannot question the performance of the Helix based on the information I have read, I just wish that over here we had more options for tuning...perhaps Helix UK someday .

[eric@helix]

Originally Posted by JamJay

To whom that first invented the stepped intercooler (whoever you may be - as per debate(s)),

Personally I couldn't care who invented it first just so long as the one I have works and is durable which I have no doubt any of them are anything but. I understand that it must be frustrating seeing rewards being reaped by other manufacturers on the sales of similar products that you first visualised but perhaps: 1) You should have patented the idea if at all possible & 2) Isn't imitation the finest form of flattery? Now, it's down to you to run with the competitors and get COMPETETIVE at shifting your product and be the best!

There are some good points here.

1) We did obtain a provisional US patent on this item, but when we saw that the copiers were international companies, manufacturing in China, we reluctantly stopped the patenting process because we knew we did not have the horsepower to successfully pursue a patent. The price tag for getting domestic and international patents was upward of $50k, which would just have given us the right to try to stop international copiers. We were advised that getting Chinese companies to comply would be difficult, and easily cost well into the six figures. We are an automotive technology company, not an international litigation company, so that's where we stand.

2) Imitation is a form of flattery, but flattery is not what we want. We want to produce unique, excellent performance parts with enough financial reward that we can spend that money on new parts development. We are currently working on a F-Series cooler, but the expense of development is slowing us down. I would rather be flattered less, and be able to develop this new intercooler.

One thing the imitators have not yet copied are some of the features which, in my opinion, make our cooler perform better: bull-nosed bars, both internally and externally, smooth-transitioned cast end tanks with knife edged ferrules, and optimum fin density for greater efficiency. So lucky for us, they've copied, but have not equaled our cooler. We have for years offered a cooler for a controlled, unbiased, side-by-side performance comparison. That offer still stands.

[FOACAD]

Originally Posted by str8shot

Funny, I have to say I'm MORE interested in the Helix now. I was looking at the ETS 5".

So what trimming does the Helix require exactly on a 135?

eric@helix seems to be acting more like a representative for a company that I would do business with.

Words on the internet are hard to discern exact intent behind, but TTurboBullett comes off condescending and rude in a pushy and combative way.

I tend to shy away from company reps that act that way, as do most in the general public.

eric@helix's last post made way better points in a very professional manner.

[Experimental]

Originally Posted by FOACAD

Being someone that is currently in the market for an FMIC, and having looked into:

ETS
Helix
Wagner
Mannhart
Forge
ER

I have to say that because of the last few posts that Helix isnt on my list anymore.

If you came up with the design first, that is fine, but the complete lack of tact and constant condescending tone of your posts makes me not want to buy your product.

This seems to be a continuing trend with Helix...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=483033&page=1

They got bumped from list back then and this thread just reaffirms my decision.

[katsooba]

so lets get VRSF back on topic

seen some good reviews on them

anyone rocking them?