Battery Replacement?

[sometorque]

Greetings!

This afternoon, my car refused to start in the parking lot of walmart. Strangely enough, everything seemed to work fine. AC blew with full force, radio worked well, but when I hit the start button, nothing happened. Dash lights didn't dim, starter made no noise. Basically, there were none of the usual signs of a dead battery yet pressing the start button did absolutely nothing.

I had the car towed to the dealer since its still under warranty and am waiting on a diagnosis. In the meantime, I wanted to pick the collective brain of 1addicts. In the event that it's a bad battery, I'd rather avoid paying the (probably) absurd price the dealer will charge since the battery wouldn't be covered if its the cause of my issues

I understand the battery has to be coded, but would I be safe simply throwing in a battery and driving right to an indy to have it coded? alternatively, would I be able to jump the bad battery and drive it to an indy to do the work? Getting my logistical ducks in a row here while I wait on a diagnosis. Thanks everyone!

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by sometorque

Greetings!

This afternoon, my car refused to start in the parking lot of walmart. Strangely enough, everything seemed to work fine. AC blew with full force, radio worked well, but when I hit the start button, nothing happened. Dash lights didn't dim, starter made no noise. Basically, there were none of the usual signs of a dead battery yet pressing the start button did absolutely nothing.

It's the battery.

The fan for the AC might've been blowing, but the AC won't run without the compressor running and that requires engine power. The accessories don't draw that much juice, but the starter needs a lot to turn over the engine.

I had the car towed to the dealer since its still under warranty and am waiting on a diagnosis. In the meantime, I wanted to pick the collective brain of 1addicts. In the event that it's a bad battery, I'd rather avoid paying the (probably) absurd price the dealer will charge since the battery wouldn't be covered if its the cause of my issues

I thought my three-year old battery would be covered by the warranty, but the dealer claimed I didn't drive the car enough, so that wasn't covered by the warranty.

They stuck me with a $600+ bill ($255 for the battery, $350+ for labor), but after getting the local news involved, they refunded all costs.

I understand the battery has to be coded, but would I be safe simply throwing in a battery and driving right to an indy to have it coded? alternatively, would I be able to jump the bad battery and drive it to an indy to do the work? Getting my logistical ducks in a row here while I wait on a diagnosis. Thanks everyone!

I would think if the car could be jumped maybe that would save the battery and not require you to get a new one... Or at least give you the chance to trickle charge it and possibly restore the battery completely.

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

It's the battery.

The fan for the AC might've been blowing, but the AC won't run without the compressor running and that requires engine power. The accessories don't draw that much juice, but the starter needs a lot to turn over the engine.


I thought my three-year old battery would be covered by the warranty, but the dealer claimed I didn't drive the car enough, so that wasn't covered by the warranty.

They stuck me with a $600+ bill ($255 for the battery, $350+ for labor), but after getting the local news involved, they refunded all costs.


I would think if the car could be jumped maybe that would save the battery and not require you to get a new one... Or at least give you the chance to trickle charge it and possibly restore the battery completely.

Thanks for the feedback. $600 is insane for a battery! I called two local shops who specialize in BMW's and both told me 250 including registration.

As for the issue, I'm leaning towards a bad ground somewhere or some continuity issue dependent on heat. When I started it this morning after not driving it for 2 days, it fired right up after two cranks. It was when I tried firing it up 20 minutes after driving it and getting it fully warmed up, it refused to turn over. It's been doing this since i bought it 6 months ago (cold starts fine, hot starts sluggish as if the starter is being lazy lol)

Every car I've owned in the past has shown clear signs its the battery (starter clicks, but doesn't fire). In this case, since they starter didn't click, the battery is relatively new (battery was replaced August 2013), and I've had some start issues for a few months, I figured it might be something else and towed it to the dealer.

If they tell me its the battery, I'm going to decline, ask for a jump and if the jump can get the car to turn over, take it elsewhere. We'll see what they tell me tomorrow.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by sometorque

Thanks for the feedback. $600 is insane for a battery! I called two local shops who specialize in BMW's and both told me 250 including registration.

As for the issue, I'm leaning towards a bad ground somewhere or some continuity issue dependent on heat. When I started it this morning after not driving it for 2 days, it fired right up after two cranks. It was when I tried firing it up 20 minutes after driving it and getting it fully warmed up, it refused to turn over. It's been doing this since i bought it 6 months ago (cold starts fine, hot starts sluggish as if the starter is being lazy lol)

Every car I've owned in the past has shown clear signs its the battery (starter clicks, but doesn't fire). In this case, since they starter didn't click, the battery is relatively new (battery was replaced August 2013), and I've had some start issues for a few months, I figured it might be something else and towed it to the dealer.

If they tell me its the battery, I'm going to decline, ask for a jump and if the jump can get the car to turn over, take it elsewhere. We'll see what they tell me tomorrow.

There was a recall for the battery cable on certain model year 1ers... You might look into that: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...3V044-6848.PDF

[Elwood Blues]

Originally Posted by sometorque

Greetings!

This afternoon, my car refused to start in the parking lot of walmart. Strangely enough, everything seemed to work fine. AC blew with full force, radio worked well, but when I hit the start button, nothing happened. Dash lights didn't dim, starter made no noise. Basically, there were none of the usual signs of a dead battery yet pressing the start button did absolutely nothing.

I had the car towed to the dealer since its still under warranty and am waiting on a diagnosis. In the meantime, I wanted to pick the collective brain of 1addicts. In the event that it's a bad battery, I'd rather avoid paying the (probably) absurd price the dealer will charge since the battery wouldn't be covered if its the cause of my issues

I understand the battery has to be coded, but would I be safe simply throwing in a battery and driving right to an indy to have it coded? alternatively, would I be able to jump the bad battery and drive it to an indy to do the work? Getting my logistical ducks in a row here while I wait on a diagnosis. Thanks everyone!

The same thing happened to me about three weeks after I purchased my car. I bought a used 2012 135i from a local BMW dealership. The car was still had a year left on the factory warranty and it was a CPO. When it died I called roadside assistance and had someone come out and jump start the car so I could drive it back to the dealership (I didn't want it to be towed in). The dealer called the next day and said the battery was dead and would not hold a charge. They covered it under the factory warranty so it didn't cost me anything. Hopefully your dealer will do the same for you.

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

There was a recall for the battery cable on certain model year 1ers... You might look into that: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs...3V044-6848.PDF

Thanks for the heads up. I just pulled the service history the dealer gave me and it did have this recall performed back 2013 on the same day the original battery was replaced.

[sometorque]

Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

The same thing happened to me about three weeks after I purchased my car. I bought a used 2012 135i from a local BMW dealership. The car was still had a year left on the factory warranty and it was a CPO. When it died I called roadside assistance and had someone come out and jump start the car so I could drive it back to the dealership (I didn't want it to be towed in). The dealer called the next day and said the battery was dead and would not hold a charge. They covered it under the factory warranty so it didn't cost me anything. Hopefully your dealer will do the same for you.

My factory warranty ended a while ago, so all I have left is the CPO warranty. I asked my SA if this covers the battery and he informed me it would not.

The battery is only 2 years old and was load tested last month due to my ongoing sluggish hot starts. Battery was showing some age, but passed with room to spare, which is why I'm not 100% convinced its the battery. We'll see what they tell me today.

[JimD]

The only effect of the registration is it affects battery charging. BMWs do not charge an old battery the same as a new one. Most cars do. It also adjusts for the size and type. But if you replace with a battery about the same size and type it is only the old versus new. I am confident even a week or two between battery replacement and registration would not make any significant difference. If mine goes out, I will go to the closest source of a battery, buy one, put it in and register it when I get a chance. I have the cable and the software but haven't used it in several years. So if I can find everything, it might be a day or two. If I can't, I will buy BMWhat and it will be a week or so. Either way, the new battery will still work. At most, maybe you loose a tiny bit of life from the new battery. There are people who say they never registered and still got years out of the new battery. That makes sense to me. There can't be a huge difference in the charging. But I think it is worthwhile to do, it just isn't worth spending a couple hundred dollars to get it done immediately.

You can get a battery at a normal autoparts store. Probably could get one at Walmart. They are about $100. BMWhat and the OBDII to Bluetooth adapter it needs is the better part of another $100. But the tool can be used many times and does other things. A cable for NCSExpert is also about $100 and does many other things. So if you are confident you will never need to register another battery getting one from an independent shop installed for around $200 is a reasonable choice. If you think you might do it again sometime or want to do other coding, getting the tool makes a lot of sense.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by JimD

The only effect of the registration is it affects battery charging. BMWs do not charge an old battery the same as a new one. Most cars do. It also adjusts for the size and type. But if you replace with a battery about the same size and type it is only the old versus new. I am confident even a week or two between battery replacement and registration would not make any significant difference. If mine goes out, I will go to the closest source of a battery, buy one, put it in and register it when I get a chance. I have the cable and the software but haven't used it in several years. So if I can find everything, it might be a day or two. If I can't, I will buy BMWhat and it will be a week or so. Either way, the new battery will still work. At most, maybe you loose a tiny bit of life from the new battery. There are people who say they never registered and still got years out of the new battery. That makes sense to me. There can't be a huge difference in the charging. But I think it is worthwhile to do, it just isn't worth spending a couple hundred dollars to get it done immediately.

What I haven't figured out is how this new, supposedly smart charging system is better than just the plain old, alternator-regulator-battery setup.

I owned my E36 for 18 years and only changed the battery once during that time with essentially the same drying habits I have now and with my 128i the battery bites the dust after barely three years. This appears to me as an example of tech for tech's sake and very little proof of improving an existing design...

[Stock4Evr]

My opinion is there was/is something not right with the 135i battery. I had mine (2012 135i) function the same and had to replace it after on 17595 miles costing me $443.84. My car was driven frequently and sufficiently to charge the battery. I now keep it on a BMW trickle charge. PS I totally dislike todays cars with all their computer/electronics. As you may have ascertained I am from the older generation of great cars from the 50's.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

What I haven't figured out is how this new, supposedly smart charging system is better than just the plain old, alternator-regulator-battery setup.

I owned my E36 for 18 years and only changed the battery once during that time with essentially the same drying habits I have now and with my 128i the battery bites the dust after barely three years. This appears to me as an example of tech for tech's sake and very little proof of improving an existing design...

Because the old style system would last about a week under the demands of a new car.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Because the old style system would last about a week under the demands of a new car.

What demands?

The amperage of the battery for my current car is essentially the same as my old E36.

When the car is running, aren't all electrical systems driven by the alternator and not the battery?

[edisapimp]

Nope. The alternator charges the battery while the car is on.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by edisapimp

Nope. The alternator charges the battery while the car is on.

Okay... In turn, the battery runs the electricals, huh?

Again, how are the demands that much different from a previous generation car like an E36 or E46?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

Okay... In turn, the battery runs the electricals, huh?

Again, how are the demands that much different from a previous generation car like an E36 or E46?

Because now there are 42 computers all running, and even the slightest voltage drop and they stop working.

[Eyeman]

I don't agree that having the exact battery in our cars is that critical. Whatever battery you change to will need to be coded. Then the alternator will have a better shot at maintaining that battery. My first lightweight battery lasted nearly 3 yrs. As it was losing it's ability to hold enough cold cranking amps, my car would quit operating the digital clock and give me warnings that the battery would soon need replacing. Otherwise, the car ran fine.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Because now there are 42 computers all running, and even the slightest voltage drop and they stop working.

That's all well and good, but the car battery is still 12 volts and the alternator is still responsible for charging it. If the charging system was really smart and the 42 computers are that sensitive to a voltage drop, then the charging system should be compensating... If not, then the smart charging system is flawed.

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

This registration business doesn't make much sense.

I assume the battery BMW put in the car was initially registered? Also I assume this registration is some sort of software update done to some computer somewhere in the car? When you replace the battery, why doesn't the initial registration still serve the new battery?

Also suppose you replace the battery with an exact copy of the old. Won't the registration still work?

And exactly what happens to a replacement that isn't registered? Does it blow up?

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

That's all well and good, but the car battery is still 12 volts and the alternator is still responsible for charging it. If the charging system was really smart and the 42 computers are that sensitive to a voltage drop, then the charging system should be compensating... If not, then the smart charging system is flawed.

The alternator charges the battery, and the car's electrical system runs off the battery. However, if the battery is dead, the alternator can supply the power to run the car at least for ignition. If all the accessories and lights are turned on, the alternator won't be able to keep up with the power demands which explains why cars have batteries or a place to store energy. The alternator works to replenish the energy as it is used up.

[sometorque]

Turned out to be the starter, which explained the issues I was having with hot starts. Unrelated, I had been having issues with the trans temp warning light coming up from time to time. Turns out the trans pan gasket was leaking fluid. They also found a small leak in the oil filter housing and took care of that for me as well. Otherwise, the tech told me everything else looks solid with the car.

Total in parts and labor would have been around 3k. Feeling really glad I bought a CPO car right about now

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by sometorque

Total in parts and labor would have been around 3k. Feeling really glad I bought a CPO car right about now

Yeowch.

So the battery's ok?

[JimD]

I don't think a few relatively quick battery replacements are a great indicator that BMWs smart battery charging setup is no-good. Unfortunately batteries themselves have very different lifespans. My record is the battery in the boat. It never had a real alternator, it used to have a system like a lawn motor with voltage that varied with engine rpm. Now even that doesn't work. So I charge the battery up when I want to use the boat. I have a replacement in there now but the first one worked about 15 years. Very low cranking duty (70hp 2 cycle).

But if you compare the lifespan of an average to good battery in an older car to a less than average battery in a new BMW, the old car system looks better. But it is very plausible that it was just a better battery in the old car. Or a not-so-good battery in the newer one.