The Dragon or Cherohala?

Sinister Crayon · 11-12-2011, 11:21 AM

OK, I'm planning my PCD for the 30th of this month, which means I'm planning out the route I'm going to take home. Because of its proximity to the Tail of the Dragon, I initially decided that I'm going to drive it on December 1st because I always used to read that the road is one of the best out there for motorcyclists and sports cars.

However, I was doing some reading and was really disappointed to find the speed limit is 30mph. Even though there are plenty of sources and evidence that the 30mph limit is illegal, I'm not really willing to pay an attorney to fight a ticket in another state because I decided to have a little fun with my new toy. From everything I've seen there are plenty of speed traps across The Dragon which make speeding a risky proposition. Given that, my desire to drive it has cooled somewhat.

In my reading I also realized I could instead take the Cherohala Skyway, which while not as technical (not as many corners) apparently has some nice sweeping turns and fabulous views, and a 45mph speed limit which I find much more reasonable.

For those who've done both (if there are any here) which would you do in a new 135i? I don't have time to do the loop of both as I need to be at work on the Friday the 2nd. Does the 30mph limit really feel like a chore for those miles on the Dragon, or is it still fun? I know the speed limit used to be 45 and I think that's a reasonable speed for that road, but 30mph just sounds like a rather boring slog. On the flip side, a part of me wonders if I don't hit up The Dragon will I regret it later? Yeah, I'm sure I'll be doing another PCD in a few years when my lease is up, but the 135i seems like a great match for such a technical road.

So thoughts anyone? Anyone here done both and have any input?

Oh... I should also mention that I think weather will have an impact on this too; if the skyway is snowed in at any point then I'll default to The Dragon anyway, and if there's snow in the lowlands around The Dragon then I'll skip them both entirely. But presuming good weather for both roads, which would you take?

pixelblue · 11-12-2011, 12:48 PM

I would do the dragon. One of those must drive roads despite the speed limit. Doing it in dec will give you the added benefit of fallen leaves which will give you better visibility around the corners. 30 is pretty low but if you do it on a weekday you'll have better luck not getting stuck behind slow traffic. Anyways you won't be able to go much faster than 60 with all the hairpins.

Pig Farmer · 11-12-2011, 04:36 PM

Both roads are amazing but seriously different. The dragon is tight, non-stop left, right, left, right, +300 times. If the weather is good, expect a crowd of vehicles from RVs to sport bikes, especially on the weekend. Not always fun or safe with all the blind turns. Trust me, you will not break any land speed records on the dragon. Completing the 11 miles in a car with an average speed 15 over the limit is a serious challenge (because of the road, the traffic and the cops). Motorcycles out number cars 100:1.

The Cherohala consist of countless sweepers that take you up, down and around a series of small mountains. You can carry at least twice the speed of the dragon safely. The views are better and traffic if any seems to be spread out.

For driving enjoyment I would run the Cherohala. For bragging rights and just for the experience, I would "walk" the dragon.

BTW - I found the pavement on both roads to be flawless. Which ever you decide, you'll have a blast.

JimD · 11-12-2011, 04:38 PM

I'm not sure if I've driven the Cherohala but I've driven the dragon and it was fun. I do not remember the speed limit but I remember that I couldn't hit it on some of the turns. Traffic is often an issue too but should be better in December. This is 311 turns in a short distance. You turn nearly constantly. It is fun, especially if the traffic is not restricting you. There are places where you could go faster but I don't think the speed limit takes the fun out. I think the cops along the dragon mainly try to keep people in their lanes.

You should go to this website:

http://www.tailofthedragonmaps.com/

It has a bunch of free maps of this area. I like the one which shows "great roads" in this area. My son and I drove several going up to the dragon. Some were at least as scenic as the dragon. You could pick a route that is not a lot out of your way and have some fun. You might be able to slip a few miles of the Blue Ridge Parkway into your route. It is fun with lots of scenic overlooks you can stop at to take pictures. Speed limit is mostly 45 mph. South of Ashville is tighter than North of Ashville. Lots more tunnels south of Ashville too. No trucks on the BRP

. But there are ridiculous campers.

My daughter now lives in Bloomington, Illinois which is kind of close to St. Louis. She recently moved from Atlanta there and I drove the U-Haul truck. She is driving there from SC right now (left about 1pm). So I've driven part of the way you need to go. The roads until somewhere past Nashville, while interstate highways, were much better than average. There were some large hills that really challenged the trucks. Lots of scenery. Roads like the dragon are much lower speed and more challenging in the driving but most of your route is a decent drive. Only really nasty traffic we saw was in Nashville. Some kind of wreck.

Jim

Tom K. · 11-12-2011, 05:17 PM

You don't live that far away - so do one (I'd pick the Dragon) and plan another future road trip to do the Cherohala as well as the Smokies, Blue Ridge Parkway, etc., etc.

There are too many great BMW roads in this area not to return and savor as many as possible.

Tom

slim_e90 · 11-12-2011, 05:44 PM

First... Congrats...

I've driven both roads in mid late November.

My recommendation would be the skyway. Reason being they normally throw salt on the dragon in November leaving it "gravely" on curves. It's still fun but it's not cool getting over 35-40 on a turn looking at the side of the mountains.

The skyway is nicer at this time of the year.... You have more space and clearer turns. The views are spectacular too.

Enjoy your drive back and be safe!

Sinister Crayon · 11-13-2011, 09:52 AM

Thanks all for the input. This has really helped. Keep it coming if anyone else has any input though

And thanks slim_e90 for the congrats... I'm really pumped about this especially since I didn't get to do my ED with my own car (car was wrecked, they built me a new one but I ended up in a loaner 535i for the duration of my trip). It'll be the first time I'll get to drive my 135i and I intend to enjoy the hell out of it

Still not definitively decided yet, and Tom K. you have a point about doing the other one at a different time... though I have a suspicion I'll be doing The Dragon next year on my Yamaha rather than in a Bimmer. Generally though I will probably let the weather decide whether I'm going to take the Skyway or not... but the Dragon is definitely up there. Hell, I might even just flip a coin on the morning of

Tom K. · 11-13-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinister Crayon

Still not definitively decided yet, and Tom K. you have a point about doing the other one at a different time... though I have a suspicion I'll be doing The Dragon next year on my Yamaha rather than in a Bimmer. Generally though I will probably let the weather decide whether I'm going to take the Skyway or not... but the Dragon is definitely up there. Hell, I might even just flip a coin on the morning of

I've done it in a Z4 and on 2 Beemers and a GoldWing! It's all good.

Enjoy your new ride!

Tom

Jimbozini · 11-13-2011, 05:28 PM

I live in the area and have ample opportunity to navigate both roads. In my opinion, driving the Cherohala Skyway would be the better choice. There is just so much traffic on the"Dragon" consisting mostly of cars/cruisers incapable of navigating a twisty mountain road even at 30 mph!

The Dragon may give you ~11 miles of slow travel torture were the Cherohala offers ~45 miles of spectacular views and some nice twisty bits of road.

Just my .02 worth.
-Jim

Steve_in_NH · 11-13-2011, 06:09 PM

The Dragon at dawn is great. No cops and no traffic.

Sinister Crayon · 11-13-2011, 06:21 PM

Good input Jimbozini... that's what I was looking for. Given that I'll be there during the week (a Friday), and in December no less... and going off Steve_in_NH's comment... if I get out there early in the morning do you think I'd have a pretty good experience? Or do you still think Cherohala would provide the better driving experience?

Consider also that next year I am tentatively planning to head down to the area on my bike... so would the Dragon be a better bike-road with the Cherohala being a better car-road?

I know... probably obsessing over this a bit much, but I really want to enjoy myself on this trip. And I'll be videoing it either way

pixelblue · 11-13-2011, 07:29 PM

Just looked up Cherohala Skyway on the map. Wow that looks like an amazing stretch of road! Guess I got to put that on the list too

Jimbozini · 11-17-2011, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinister Crayon

Good input Jimbozini... that's what I was looking for. Given that I'll be there during the week (a Friday), and in December no less... and going off Steve_in_NH's comment... if I get out there early in the morning do you think I'd have a pretty good experience? Or do you still think Cherohala would provide the better driving experience?

Consider also that next year I am tentatively planning to head down to the area on my bike... so would the Dragon be a better bike-road with the Cherohala being a better car-road?

I know... probably obsessing over this a bit much, but I really want to enjoy myself on this trip. And I'll be videoing it either way

You can do both! The "Dragon" portion of 129 is only about 11 miles from the Crossroads of Time store to the overlook. Do the run, stop at the overlook to catch your breath, the turn around & head back to NC. Continue on 129 until you get to the Joyce Kilmer National Forest and cut in there to the Cherohala Skyway. The Skyway will be about 43 miles to Tellico Plains TN. From Tellico just plot out the rest of the way home...

The Dragon is much tighter and more technical than the Cherohala. I find the Cherohala to be more enjoyable than the Dragon due to the popularity of the road and everything that comes with that popularity. Then again, I've ridden/driven that road for years before the "secret" was revealed.

Enjoy you trip & post some pics/video!

Pelicanglider · 11-18-2011, 10:15 AM

On either of these terrific roads, remember they are NOT closed course race tracks and there are no safe run off areas, only steep cliffs and trees to stop you right up to the roads edge. Unless you count the oncoming lane as runoff, as some people do! Guardrails are bare steel and they will keep most of you and your car (or bike) on the road. It's a challenge for most people to just to maintain the posted speed limit. I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm, just be smart about enjoying these roads.

Sinister Crayon · 11-18-2011, 11:19 AM

Thanks all for the input... and yes Jimbozini I had considered that. I am thinking that instead of my previous plan of stopping for the night in Waynesville I might just eat dinner there and stay in Robbinsville instead. That way I can get up bright and early, eat some waffles, drink some horrible hotel coffee and then hit up The Dragon early in the AM. If I do that, I'll probably have plenty of time to do The Dragon in reverse and then go do Cherohala as well. Of course, this all comes down to weather; if we start getting white stuff then I will just do The Dragon and be done with it.

I have winter tires and wheels, but they're in my basement. I'll be driving home on the stocks for now. It's horrible; I have a stack of "car bits" in my basement right now and no car to put them on

As for photos and videos... yeah, I am definitely down with that. Just picked up an in-car mount for my camera (ContourGPS, 1080p) so I hope to get some great video of the entirety of The Dragon and maybe Cherohala. If they'll let me put it into the car at the PCD I'll get that as well. The mount is one that attaches to the passenger headrest and positions the camera right over my right shoulder. Tried it in my Subaru last night and really liked the footage I grabbed.

And yeah, Pelicanglider... always careful. I sometimes think I'm one of the older (pending) 135i drivers being 38... so I tend to be more careful than most. I did worry that the 30mph limit was a bit stingy until I started checking out video of The Dragon... yeah it looks pretty tight and twisty. I think I'll be OK so long as I can keep my foot out of it on the straights

11-12-2011, 11:21 AM	#1
Sinister Crayon floccinaucinihilipilifica tion 15 Rep 249 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: May 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (0)	The Dragon or Cherohala? OK, I'm planning my PCD for the 30th of this month, which means I'm planning out the route I'm going to take home. Because of its proximity to the Tail of the Dragon, I initially decided that I'm going to drive it on December 1st because I always used to read that the road is one of the best out there for motorcyclists and sports cars. However, I was doing some reading and was really disappointed to find the speed limit is 30mph. Even though there are plenty of sources and evidence that the 30mph limit is illegal, I'm not really willing to pay an attorney to fight a ticket in another state because I decided to have a little fun with my new toy. From everything I've seen there are plenty of speed traps across The Dragon which make speeding a risky proposition. Given that, my desire to drive it has cooled somewhat. In my reading I also realized I could instead take the Cherohala Skyway, which while not as technical (not as many corners) apparently has some nice sweeping turns and fabulous views, and a 45mph speed limit which I find much more reasonable. For those who've done both (if there are any here) which would you do in a new 135i? I don't have time to do the loop of both as I need to be at work on the Friday the 2nd. Does the 30mph limit really feel like a chore for those miles on the Dragon, or is it still fun? I know the speed limit used to be 45 and I think that's a reasonable speed for that road, but 30mph just sounds like a rather boring slog. On the flip side, a part of me wonders if I don't hit up The Dragon will I regret it later? Yeah, I'm sure I'll be doing another PCD in a few years when my lease is up, but the 135i seems like a great match for such a technical road. So thoughts anyone? Anyone here done both and have any input? Oh... I should also mention that I think weather will have an impact on this too; if the skyway is snowed in at any point then I'll default to The Dragon anyway, and if there's snow in the lowlands around The Dragon then I'll skip them both entirely. But presuming good weather for both roads, which would you take?
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11-12-2011, 12:48 PM	#2
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	I would do the dragon. One of those must drive roads despite the speed limit. Doing it in dec will give you the added benefit of fallen leaves which will give you better visibility around the corners. 30 is pretty low but if you do it on a weekday you'll have better luck not getting stuck behind slow traffic. Anyways you won't be able to go much faster than 60 with all the hairpins. __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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11-12-2011, 04:36 PM	#3
Pig Farmer Major 340 Rep 1,293 Posts Drives: E92M Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida iTrader: (0)	Both roads are amazing but seriously different. The dragon is tight, non-stop left, right, left, right, +300 times. If the weather is good, expect a crowd of vehicles from RVs to sport bikes, especially on the weekend. Not always fun or safe with all the blind turns. Trust me, you will not break any land speed records on the dragon. Completing the 11 miles in a car with an average speed 15 over the limit is a serious challenge (because of the road, the traffic and the cops). Motorcycles out number cars 100:1. The Cherohala consist of countless sweepers that take you up, down and around a series of small mountains. You can carry at least twice the speed of the dragon safely. The views are better and traffic if any seems to be spread out. For driving enjoyment I would run the Cherohala. For bragging rights and just for the experience, I would "walk" the dragon. BTW - I found the pavement on both roads to be flawless. Which ever you decide, you'll have a blast.
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11-12-2011, 04:38 PM	#4
JimD Brigadier General 368 Rep 3,547 Posts Drives: 128i convertible Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lexington, SC iTrader: (0)	I'm not sure if I've driven the Cherohala but I've driven the dragon and it was fun. I do not remember the speed limit but I remember that I couldn't hit it on some of the turns. Traffic is often an issue too but should be better in December. This is 311 turns in a short distance. You turn nearly constantly. It is fun, especially if the traffic is not restricting you. There are places where you could go faster but I don't think the speed limit takes the fun out. I think the cops along the dragon mainly try to keep people in their lanes. You should go to this website: http://www.tailofthedragonmaps.com/ It has a bunch of free maps of this area. I like the one which shows "great roads" in this area. My son and I drove several going up to the dragon. Some were at least as scenic as the dragon. You could pick a route that is not a lot out of your way and have some fun. You might be able to slip a few miles of the Blue Ridge Parkway into your route. It is fun with lots of scenic overlooks you can stop at to take pictures. Speed limit is mostly 45 mph. South of Ashville is tighter than North of Ashville. Lots more tunnels south of Ashville too. No trucks on the BRP . But there are ridiculous campers. My daughter now lives in Bloomington, Illinois which is kind of close to St. Louis. She recently moved from Atlanta there and I drove the U-Haul truck. She is driving there from SC right now (left about 1pm). So I've driven part of the way you need to go. The roads until somewhere past Nashville, while interstate highways, were much better than average. There were some large hills that really challenged the trucks. Lots of scenery. Roads like the dragon are much lower speed and more challenging in the driving but most of your route is a decent drive. Only really nasty traffic we saw was in Nashville. Some kind of wreck. Jim __________________ 128i Convertible, MT, Alpine White, Black Top, Taupe Leatherette, Walnut, Sport Ordered 5/22/09, Completed 6/4/09, At Port 6/9/09, On the Georgia Highway 6/13/09, Ship Arrived Charleston 6/24/09 at 10pm, PCD 7/21/09
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11-12-2011, 05:17 PM	#5
Tom K. Major General 124 Rep 5,627 Posts Drives: '07 328iT, '13 Boxster Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	You don't live that far away - so do one (I'd pick the Dragon) and plan another future road trip to do the Cherohala as well as the Smokies, Blue Ridge Parkway, etc., etc. There are too many great BMW roads in this area not to return and savor as many as possible. Tom
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11-12-2011, 05:44 PM	#6
slim_e90 First Lieutenant 13 Rep 343 Posts Drives: BSM E-88 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Naaaashville, TN iTrader: (4)	First... Congrats... I've driven both roads in mid late November. My recommendation would be the skyway. Reason being they normally throw salt on the dragon in November leaving it "gravely" on curves. It's still fun but it's not cool getting over 35-40 on a turn looking at the side of the mountains. The skyway is nicer at this time of the year.... You have more space and clearer turns. The views are spectacular too. Enjoy your drive back and be safe! __________________ \|move over... please\|
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11-13-2011, 09:52 AM	#7
Sinister Crayon floccinaucinihilipilifica tion 15 Rep 249 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: May 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (0)	Thanks all for the input. This has really helped. Keep it coming if anyone else has any input though And thanks slim_e90 for the congrats... I'm really pumped about this especially since I didn't get to do my ED with my own car (car was wrecked, they built me a new one but I ended up in a loaner 535i for the duration of my trip). It'll be the first time I'll get to drive my 135i and I intend to enjoy the hell out of it Still not definitively decided yet, and Tom K. you have a point about doing the other one at a different time... though I have a suspicion I'll be doing The Dragon next year on my Yamaha rather than in a Bimmer. Generally though I will probably let the weather decide whether I'm going to take the Skyway or not... but the Dragon is definitely up there. Hell, I might even just flip a coin on the morning of
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11-13-2011, 05:28 PM	#9
Jimbozini Ostensibly Temerarious 1 Rep 6 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Knoxvegas iTrader: (0)	I live in the area and have ample opportunity to navigate both roads. In my opinion, driving the Cherohala Skyway would be the better choice. There is just so much traffic on the"Dragon" consisting mostly of cars/cruisers incapable of navigating a twisty mountain road even at 30 mph! The Dragon may give you ~11 miles of slow travel torture were the Cherohala offers ~45 miles of spectacular views and some nice twisty bits of road. Just my .02 worth. -Jim
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11-13-2011, 06:09 PM	#10
Steve_in_NH Private 0 Rep 56 Posts Drives: 2008 128i Convertible Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chester, NH iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 128i [8.00]	Early Morning Drive The Dragon at dawn is great. No cops and no traffic. __________________ Steve_in_NH
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11-13-2011, 06:21 PM	#11
Sinister Crayon floccinaucinihilipilifica tion 15 Rep 249 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: May 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (0)	Good input Jimbozini... that's what I was looking for. Given that I'll be there during the week (a Friday), and in December no less... and going off Steve_in_NH's comment... if I get out there early in the morning do you think I'd have a pretty good experience? Or do you still think Cherohala would provide the better driving experience? Consider also that next year I am tentatively planning to head down to the area on my bike... so would the Dragon be a better bike-road with the Cherohala being a better car-road? I know... probably obsessing over this a bit much, but I really want to enjoy myself on this trip. And I'll be videoing it either way
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11-13-2011, 07:29 PM	#12
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	Just looked up Cherohala Skyway on the map. Wow that looks like an amazing stretch of road! Guess I got to put that on the list too __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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11-18-2011, 10:15 AM	#14
Pelicanglider Enlisted Member 19 Rep 46 Posts Drives: 2008 128i Convertible Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Old Gulf Coast iTrader: (0)	NO room for errors! On either of these terrific roads, remember they are NOT closed course race tracks and there are no safe run off areas, only steep cliffs and trees to stop you right up to the roads edge. Unless you count the oncoming lane as runoff, as some people do! Guardrails are bare steel and they will keep most of you and your car (or bike) on the road. It's a challenge for most people to just to maintain the posted speed limit. I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm, just be smart about enjoying these roads. __________________ "Nobody gets in to see the Wizard, not nobody, not no how!"
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11-18-2011, 11:19 AM	#15
Sinister Crayon floccinaucinihilipilifica tion 15 Rep 249 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: May 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (0)	Thanks all for the input... and yes Jimbozini I had considered that. I am thinking that instead of my previous plan of stopping for the night in Waynesville I might just eat dinner there and stay in Robbinsville instead. That way I can get up bright and early, eat some waffles, drink some horrible hotel coffee and then hit up The Dragon early in the AM. If I do that, I'll probably have plenty of time to do The Dragon in reverse and then go do Cherohala as well. Of course, this all comes down to weather; if we start getting white stuff then I will just do The Dragon and be done with it. I have winter tires and wheels, but they're in my basement. I'll be driving home on the stocks for now. It's horrible; I have a stack of "car bits" in my basement right now and no car to put them on As for photos and videos... yeah, I am definitely down with that. Just picked up an in-car mount for my camera (ContourGPS, 1080p) so I hope to get some great video of the entirety of The Dragon and maybe Cherohala. If they'll let me put it into the car at the PCD I'll get that as well. The mount is one that attaches to the passenger headrest and positions the camera right over my right shoulder. Tried it in my Subaru last night and really liked the footage I grabbed. And yeah, Pelicanglider... always careful. I sometimes think I'm one of the older (pending) 135i drivers being 38... so I tend to be more careful than most. I did worry that the 30mph limit was a bit stingy until I started checking out video of The Dragon... yeah it looks pretty tight and twisty. I think I'll be OK so long as I can keep my foot out of it on the straights
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