N54 Dinan stage 2 Dyno Results

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by cbl117

There are TONS of stock N54 dyno runs. I don't need to remind you as you already know that. Go find ten runs and do an average. Come back when you have my data for me.

not how it works

different dyno, different car, different day

completely and totally meaningless data comparing it to something else.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by flinchy

not how it works

different dyno, different car, different day

completely and totally meaningless data comparing it to something else.

You're directing your bullshit towards the wrong guy. I never said I was getting any dynos. I asked the other guy to "go fetch me a rock" if he's so concerned about baseline data. You guys crack me up.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

So you are saying you don't have a baseline so you can't actually say what the delta is from the tune?

BTW "flinch" is correct about trying to compare dyno runs across brands or even different machines of the same brand. The absolute number is meaningless other than for bragging rights & add copy.

The only number that has any real relevance to anyone who understands dyno tuning is the delta over the baseline on the same machine.

Also it would be really interesting to see the math that takes 315whp to 380bhp.

For what its worth you have no torque numbers which suggests a problem with the run or they did not even bother to hook up the rpm sensor. It would be a lot easier to look at the a/f ratio if the scale was in RPM instead of MPH.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Also it would be really interesting to see the math that takes 315whp to 380bhp.

380 x 0.83 = 315.4

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Thanks for the info

315 X 115% = 362BHP. This is how most of the WHP to BHP results are factored when guys are posting results

Typical math is 15% loss factor some are even less. My Cobra has no pollution controls, no power accessories, manual trans, an 18" drive shaft & headers directly into side pipes & 315 tires pushing the rollers. A 15% factor would greatly overstate its actual BHP because its drivetrain loss is very low.

IIRC Dinan claims 378BHP for Stage II with the caveat "as much as" & since Stage I most likely is not "as much as" to start with is why you need a baseline that you disregard.

Hope you get a chance to run it on the 1/4 mile. One of the guys had a 335is with the full Dinan package Stage 3 & was at 12.59 @ 108. He moved on to another tune after that & got into the 11's so I think its one of the faster runs with a Stage 3.

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--335i-D...l?resultpage=8

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Thanks for the info

315 X 115% = 362BHP. This is how most of the WHP to BHP results are factored when guys are posting results

Typical math is 15% loss factor some are even less. My Cobra has no pollution controls, no power accessories, manual trans, an 18" drive shaft & headers directly into side pipes & 315 tires pushing the rollers. A 15% factor would greatly overstate its actual BHP because its drivetrain loss is very low.

IIRC Dinan claims 378BHP for Stage II with the caveat "as much as" & since Stage I most likely is not "as much as" to start with is why you need a baseline that you disregard.

Hope you get a chance to run it on the 1/4 mile. One of the guys had a 335is with the full Dinan package Stage 3 & was at 12.59 @ 108. He moved on to another tune after that & got into the 11's so I think its one of the faster runs with a Stage 3.

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW--335i-D...l?resultpage=8

If you take 362 * 0.85 = 307 and not 316.

But if you take 307 *1.15 = 353.

Why the difference depending on adding or subtracting the drivetrain losses? What is the standard...adding in the estimated loss or subtracting it out?

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Usually adding on because the Dyno run is the "known" number. 15% is a general number because the loss can be all over the lot like I indicated on my other car vs the BMW & most vendors use 15%.

With publiched BHP you can't really come up with a WHP number because most are made up numbers by the marketing department. Also WHP will vary by dyno brand so what percentage works for DynoJet will not work for Mustang.

IIRC BMW has had a least 4 versions of the 300BHP 335 engine. Early N54, late N54, 3.5" N55 & 4" N55. Actuall dynos show while similar none are exactly the same.



This was aback to back test. Did not read the details but the same test on another brand dyno would have the same order of finish just different raw numbers.

Again the numbers are all estimates. Even on your test if you brought home the data on a flash drive ran the numbers on your PC under different smoothings or SAE vs STD & you will get different numbers. Smoothing 5/STD presents the best possible raw number for the test.

The only REAL number is the delta between baseline & modified.

[Chunner]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Exactly. I for one appreciate you putting up the info you did. I may consider a Dinan tune on top of my PPK2. I used to be the maximize horsepower for the money spent when I was younger. But with age, I have valued the priceless experience of knowing I can jump into my car and just start it without any issues. If there are, it's most likely NOT the tune or anything around it. I would like to see a comparison of how many people report issues with a PPK or Dinan tune versus a JB4 or Cobb. I know it's anecdotal but it could be some what informative.

Here is a great article on Dinan. Enjoy...

http://www.stanceworks.com/2014/02/m...n-engineering/

[Cavpilot2k]

Just re-reading this thread, since I just installed Dinan Stage 2 today. It would be comical if it weren't pathetic how so many people have to compensate for their little dicks by trashing another owner's decisions and his well-thought-out reasons for said decisions.

Guys, if you don't have anything constructive to add, go find another thread to troll. If you don't like Dinan, why even bother posting to a thread where a Dinan owner is sharing his experience? We all love our 1ers, but we all have different goals and priorities for our cars. Trashing someone else's goals and priorities regarding their own personal vehicle is immature, narcissistic, unproductive, rude, and makes you sound like petulant children. (no, MY toy is better!)

Grow the hell up.

[bmwbrad22]

Good luck to you with your car and your decisions you make with it.

It's on 91 OCT and if I read correctly 95 degrees ambient temp?
Dyno numbers are also just dyno numbers.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by bmwbrad22

Good luck to you with your car and your decisions you make with it.

It's on 91 OCT and if I read correctly 95 degrees ambient temp?
Dyno numbers are also just dyno numbers.

Thanks. Correct, 95 deg ambient temps. It was a hot weekend in socal.

[bmwbrad22]

Originally Posted by cbl117

Thanks. Correct, 95 deg ambient temps. It was a hot weekend in socal.

ive got loads of goodies im installing into my car cant wait to dyno

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by bmwbrad22

ive got loads of goodies im installing into my car cant wait to dyno

Cool. What's going on the car?

[amsnow440]

Originally Posted by cbl117

If you take 362 * 0.85 = 307 and not 316.

But if you take 307 *1.15 = 353.

Why the difference depending on adding or subtracting the drivetrain losses? What is the standard...adding in the estimated loss or subtracting it out?

The difference is in the math not the theory. 85% of 362 =/= 115% of 307.

You need to use the same equation to define both:

(1-DTL)*(BHP) = WHP
Or conversely,
BHP = WHP/(1-DTL)

where,
BHP = Brake HP
WHP = Wheel HP
DTL = Drive Train Loss

So for this case of a 15% drive train loss and a BHP of 362 HP

(1.00 - 0.15)*(362 BHP) = 307.7 WHP

and conversely,

307.7WHP/(1.00 - 0.15) = 362 BHP

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by amsnow440

The difference is in the math not the theory. 85% of 362 =/= 115% of 307.

You need to use the same equation to define both:

(1-DTL)*(BHP) = WHP
Or conversely,
BHP = WHP/(1-DTL)

where,
BHP = Brake HP
WHP = Wheel HP
DTL = Drive Train Loss

So for this case of a 15% drive train loss and a BHP of 362 HP

(1.00 - 0.15)*(362 BHP) = 307.7 WHP

and conversely,

307.7WHP/(1.00 - 0.15) = 362 BHP

Thanks for the feedback. I figured it out last year when I originally made the thread. You are correct, I was doing the math wrong originally.

I made 316whp, so 316WHP/0.85 = 372BHP.

On par with what Dinan states considering their dynos are with 93OCT and I was using 91OCT that particular day. I've since added the Dinan FMIC and DCI. With 93OCT I'm predicting 400BHP....just need to find the time to confirm. That was my particular goal so I'm happy. As an aside, I put stickier tires on today and I'm finally able to put all that power to the road with no traction issues.

[bmwbrad22]

Originally Posted by cbl117

Cool. What's going on the car?

Down Pipes
FMIC
Axle Back
Charge pipe
Tial bov

JB4

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by cbl117

Thanks for the feedback. I figured it out last year when I originally made the thread. You are correct, I was doing the math wrong originally.

I made 316whp, so 316WHP/0.85 = 372BHP.

On par with what Dinan states considering their dynos are with 93OCT and I was using 91OCT that particular day. I've since added the Dinan FMIC and DCI. With 93OCT I'm predicting 400BHP....just need to find the time to confirm. That was my particular goal so I'm happy. As an aside, I put stickier tires on today and I'm finally able to put all that power to the road with no traction issues.

I finally found some time to dyno the car with the FMIC and DCI on 93 oct with some other minor tweaks. The thread can be found here:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1148723

351 whp
387 wtq

Thought I should add a data point to this trainwreck of a thread