Anyone tuning with Cobb?

[AMGTurbo2012]

I'm currently tuned with Jake from pro tuning freaks and I'm very happy, however id like to try a 100% E85 tune. I know it's been done. I asked jake about it and I don't think he seemed too interested. Idk if his just super busy or what, but I felt like any question I asked was just annoying him, and I like to know what's going during tuning.
Mods are in sig. Thanks guys!

[str8shot]

Originally Posted by AMGTurbo2012

I'm currently tuned with Jake from pro tuning freaks and I'm very happy, however id like to try a 100% E85 tune. I know it's been done. I asked jake about it and I don't think he seemed too interested. Idk if his just super busy or what, but I felt like any question I asked was just annoying him, and I like to know what's going during tuning.
Mods are in sig. Thanks guys!

There's a thread on the e90 side that's running 100% e85 on Cobb. It was tuned by LJ at Full Blown Motorsports in Minnesota.

[135Pats]

May I ask what you hope to gain from straight E85? Are you certain you can provide enough fuel to support straight E85? The number of people running E85 daily is exceedingly small.

I'd just start by saying that if power is what you are after, there is plenty of octane in E50 to accomplish anything stock turbos can do.

[AMGTurbo2012]

Thanks for the heads up str8shot. I'll check that out.

I'm not after any more power than what I have with stock turbos. It's mainly because e85 is really cheap and the stations are a dime a dozen here. According to threads I've read, I have everything required to run straight e85. From what I've researched, the majority of people aren't running 100% e85 because it is either 1not readily available or 2they don't have the extra fuel pump to support it.
I've done my research big time in the area and the only thing I was having problems was finding someone to tune it.

[vivanapoli806]

You get less mpg running e85 don't you ? U prolly will have to fill up more often then when u run regular fuel so are u going to be saving that much money really ?

[AMGTurbo2012]

When the price of 93 is 3.79 and E85 is 2.89 it seems like it. Another pro that I've measured with this is that I won't have to mix fuels anymore. I'll know exactly what's going into my tank ya know? Don't get me wrong, I have an e85 tester, but I really get tired of mixing fuels and not truly knowing what mix is in the tank.

[vivanapoli806]

I'm in Chicago so we are paying over $4 almost $5 a gallon even for e85. Wouldn't be worth it for me but seeing what ur paying it might be

[135Pats]

Mixing is a pain, no doubt. But i'd just say if tuners are hesitant to tune for full E85, there's a reason for it beyond laziness.

This platform cannot support straight E85 safely, it just can't. I'm sure there are a handful of folks here running around with straight E85, but either they're

A. Spraying meth for fuel (dumb)
B. Spraying E85 PI for fuel (fine if you are VERY well-versed in our fuel system like Steve is)
C. In love with risk


Fill with straight E85, adjust the scalar all you'd like, and log HPFP PSI. Watch it crash. @steveAZ is the man to talk to if you really want to pursue this. But i'd argue you won't see any tangible benefits, and the costs could be significant.

FYI the mileage you get on E85 is AWFUL. So if the goal is to save gas money, that's not going to get you very far.

[AMGTurbo2012]

Very good info 135Pats. I've actually talked to Steve about it before I bought my pump from him and he said log and send to him for review. Only prob is I'm
Cobb and not JB4.
I completely see what you mean on the results not being worth the risk, it just makes me wonder about the guys that are running it and have been. I guess "every car is different" plays a part here.
And I'm not knocking Jake in NO way. I respect what the guy has done with my car in just 3 revisions.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by AMGTurbo2012

Very good info 135Pats. I've actually talked to Steve about it before I bought my pump from him and he said log and send to him for review. Only prob is I'm
Cobb and not JB4.
I completely see what you mean on the results not being worth the risk, it just makes me wonder about the guys that are running it and have been. I guess "every car is different" plays a part here.
And I'm not knocking Jake in NO way. I respect what the guy has done with my car in just 3 revisions.

Roger that. I mean feel free to try it, i'd just keep advance and boost modest until you are confident the fuel is there. If you've gotten the green light from Steve that's more than enough for me, he knows his stuff on the fueling side far better than I do.

[AMGTurbo2012]

He does know, that's for sure! I may just stick to what I have. I looked up Full Blown Motorsports and they don't even advertise BMW. So I'm assuming the e90 guy went there personally. That's too far for me to drive.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Your HPFP will not be able to keep up with 100% e85

[AMGTurbo2012]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Your HPFP will not be able to keep up with 100% e85

thats a pretty vague statement... How can my car not when others have? Do you mean longevity or flat out won't support the demand? If you mean it can not meet the demand, wouldn't that depend on the amount of boost and timing that your tuning for?
Not starting an argument here, just getting honest answers from people other than what I've read in forums.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by AMGTurbo2012

thats a pretty vague statement... How can my car not when others have? Do you mean longevity or flat out won't support the demand? If you mean it can not meet the demand, wouldn't that depend on the amount of boost and timing that your tuning for?
Not starting an argument here, just getting honest answers from people other than what I've read in forums.

All hpfp for these cars start to suffer after 70%e85.
Thats why most people use e70 max.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by AMGTurbo2012

Very good info 135Pats. I've actually talked to Steve about it before I bought my pump from him and he said log and send to him for review. Only prob is I'm
Cobb and not JB4.
I completely see what you mean on the results not being worth the risk, it just makes me wonder about the guys that are running it and have been. I guess "every car is different" plays a part here.
And I'm not knocking Jake in NO way. I respect what the guy has done with my car in just 3 revisions.

Cobb logs are not a problem All I run is Cobb and it's how I tune my car. As I always tell people, "Send me logs, I'll review them", I just won't tune for people. I have a buddy that is pretty good with that and I've sent him a few people but I don't know if he's interested in doing it on a larger scale. He's been pretty busy lately. You could also talk to Bren if PTF isn't interested, I'm not sure if he's interested in that or not but I know he works pretty closely with one of my beta testers. Or, contact Wedge, he may help with scalar adjustments as I know he's also familiar with Cobb. Also, the Cobb E30 map is a really good place to start. Changing the scalar values and using the 3D scalar is very simple to do. I've included a screen shot of my "winter" values for 100% E85 at the bottom of this post. You can always do that and send me logs to review.

Honestly though, I don't know that anybody in this industry can ignore those that want to run 100% E85 as there are quite a few that do. It's going to happen on a larger scale and SOON. PTF has port injection coming, VTT has the shotgun system coming, and I'm sure that there are others.

Now in general to a couple other points in this thread.

As for running 100% E85 can't be done.....I respectfully disagree (see logs at the bottom of this post)

People ask me all the time about running 100% E85 and my response is always the same. Start at E60 (after they've upgraded their LPFP ), log and lets see how things look. I NEVER recommend running 100% E85 out of the gate. I'm pretty conservative about that. As a matter of fact, I've told far more people they CAN'T run 100% than I've told can.

Running a 100% E85 is dependent on many variables that pertain to hardware, power, environment, E85 source......

I also agree (for the most part) that there are not many tangible benefits running more than E60 beyond convenience and maybe a couple other special cases (myself included ).

I will say one thing...if anybody is doing it to save money at the pump...you will be sorely disappointed. I average 13-14mpg around town and 18-20 on the freeway. If I ran unleaded I'd probably get 17 or so around town but mid 20's on the freeway. In our G37 I averaged 16 so maybe I'm at about break even there...but not on the freeway. I will probably experiment with lean cruise and some tuning there. I honestly don't care about my mileage but some people do, so there is some useful knowledge to be gained.

The other benefit for me is that in this hot weather with my setup, I notice vitrually no change (butt dyno) in performance zippin' around on surface streets between winter temps and summer temps.

Here are 4 logs....two of which are on stage 1 and the other 2 are on stage 2. HPFP and rail are stock. Two of them also use E85 CP injection. And for the record, I have been 100% E85 for over 9K miles and injecting for about 4K.

Stage 2 with CP injection....link to log



Stage 2 without CP injection...link to log



Stage 1 with CP injection....link to log



Stage 1 without CP injection....link to log



Lastly, I will say that running 100% obviously takes more monitoring, but it also takes more tuning. For example, in the summer I have to adjust my scalars at idle or my trims will go too negative, my DME isn't happy and will oscillate the rail pressures, it'll run rich, and idle rough. E85 is much more temperature sensitive than gasoline.



BTW, 100% E85 on a winter blend....is E70ish

[AMGTurbo2012]

That is amazing information! Exactly what I was looking for. I also don't care about gas mileage, my job is 8 miles away and my daughter stays with her mom 15 miles away. You brought up another reason I want 100% E85 and that being the cooling effects in the cylinder. I live in Louisiana, and it's nothing for temps to be 100+* from May-September.
As for the summer and winter blends, I work at the refinery that supplies most of the E85 in this area of Louisiana, so I get a heads up on when our blend changes. I also have a knock machine at my disposal in our lab that I can use with permission. We also have C85, which is an oxygenated version of E85 and it's geared towards race application. As for tuning it, I wouldn't know where to start unless you have some insight on the matter.
Thanks a lot for all your information once again. I'm not sure if I want to jump into e85 tuning on this car just yet. Guess I'll just stay content with my e50 blend. I just feel like I'm not using the full potential of your stage 1 kit.
That kit is amazing by the way! I compared a new to old data log and there is a night and day difference in pressure.