384 hp / 421 tq: DINAN 135i Tuning

[sambonator]

Good detective work!

However, in fairness to OrientBlue, the return policy which he looked at before his purchase did not disclose the limitations to Vishnu Tuning's return policy. I would not have looked on the invoice after purchase, for such important information.


A company with attentiveness toward good customer service would have honored the published return policy that was available to the buyers before purchase.

[WhereItsAt]

Originally Posted by Sambonator

Good detective work!

However, in fairness to OrientBlue, the return policy which he looked at before his purchase did not disclose the limitations to Vishnu Tuning's return policy. I would not have looked on the invoice after purchase, for such important information.


A company with attentiveness toward good customer service would have honored the published return policy that was available to the buyers before purchase.

You hardly count as someone without a dog in this fight. Your an advid Terry supporter, customer and Shiv/Vishnu antagonist. Directing people to n54 as a " tuner agnostic" site is funny - owned and maintained by Terry of JB. The fox guarding the hen house?

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

You hardly count as someone without a dog in this fight. Your an advid Terry supporter, customer and Shiv/Vishnu antagonist. Directing people to n54 as a " tuner agnostic" site is funny - owned and maintained by Terry of JB. The fox guarding the hen house?

See for yourself. n54tech welcomes everyone with all varying opinions.

[WhereItsAt]

I have visited the site. It still is the fox guarding the hen house.

[Harold]

All further non-technical related posts will be deleted. Keep it on topic please.

[mkiiieustyle]

i am not trying to start a fight or any kind of anamocity within the forum, i merely gave an option to the dinan tune, if people want to ge the falsh then really it's not going to hurt my feelings, like i stated before "if i see that someone could potentialy be gettin a better bargain or a bad deal i will say something" i wasn't saying that dinan is a bad deal just that there are better ones out there,
if Vishu have given you a reason for not buying from them then so be it, I on the other hand will not be going on a couple of people who had "bad deals" and complained because i know that there are a 100x more people that have nothing but good things to say about procede.

i think i will wait and see what BMW offer before making my final decision but BMW will need to pull out something pretty substantial.

p.s. sorry to the OP i was just trying to give other options i didn't know it would turn out like this:iono:

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by mkiiieustyle

i am not trying to start a fight or any kind of anamocity within the forum, i merely gave an option to the dinan tune, if people want to ge the falsh then really it's not going to hurt my feelings, like i stated before "if i see that someone could potentialy be gettin a better bargain or a bad deal i will say something" i wasn't saying that dinan is a bad deal just that there are better ones out there,
if Vishu have given you a reason for not buying from them then so be it, I on the other hand will not be going on a couple of people who had "bad deals" and complained because i know that there are a 100x more people that have nothing but good things to say about procede.

i think i will wait and see what BMW offer before making my final decision but BMW will need to pull out something pretty substantial.

p.s. sorry to the OP i was just trying to give other options i didn't know it would turn out like this:iono:

For when it gets deleted...

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by mkiiieustyle

i am not trying to start a fight or any kind of anamocity within the forum, i merely gave an option to the dinan tune, if people want to ge the falsh then really it's not going to hurt my feelings, like i stated before "if i see that someone could potentialy be gettin a better bargain or a bad deal i will say something" i wasn't saying that dinan is a bad deal just that there are better ones out there,
if Vishu have given you a reason for not buying from them then so be it, I on the other hand will not be going on a couple of people who had "bad deals" and complained because i know that there are a 100x more people that have nothing but good things to say about procede.

i think i will wait and see what BMW offer before making my final decision but BMW will need to pull out something pretty substantial.

p.s. sorry to the OP i was just trying to give other options i didn't know it would turn out like this:iono:

Just think you are looking for something different than the people interested in the Dinan or maybe the BMW product. You want the most HP. I don't think anything is wrong with people wanting a little peace of mind. I am really hoping GIAC comes out with a software upgrade, I trust them a lot.

[Evolved]

Originally Posted by mkiiieustyle

i am not trying to start a fight or any kind of anamocity within the forum, i merely gave an option to the dinan tune, if people want to ge the falsh then really it's not going to hurt my feelings, like i stated before "if i see that someone could potentialy be gettin a better bargain or a bad deal i will say something" i wasn't saying that dinan is a bad deal just that there are better ones out there,
if Vishu have given you a reason for not buying from them then so be it, I on the other hand will not be going on a couple of people who had "bad deals" and complained because i know that there are a 100x more people that have nothing but good things to say about procede.

i think i will wait and see what BMW offer before making my final decision but BMW will need to pull out something pretty substantial.

p.s. sorry to the OP i was just trying to give other options i didn't know it would turn out like this:iono:

I really think you're missing the point here but you seem to have your mind firmly made up so........whatever.

And for the record I'm not saying Vishnu makes a bad product. And I think the Dinan flash is way overpriced and I don't believe that warranty to be worth much either.

[chemhalo]

Thread needs a new direction....

When Dinan talks about the engine having issues handling more torque, I assume that is because of the open deck design? From looking up some stuff last night, breaking the block or rings losing seal from cylinder movement seem to be the major things that could happen. What I didnt get a clear picture of, was how would Dinan or anyone else reinforce the N54?

[atr_hugo]

Girdles? - I forgot that the N54 has an open deck, that does reduce rigidity a bit at the block/cylinder-head plane.

For folks wondering, an open deck is a short block with open water passages at the top of the block. A closed deck is a block where the water passages are not completely open to the cylinder head.

Here are a couple of pics from this site: http://www.cgperformance.com/subaru_block.htm

This site suggests something that might be considered to strengthen the top end of the block, which is to close the water passages to some extent. Of course there have to be trade offs. YMMV

Open Deck followed by Closed Deck:

[chemhalo]

Something tells me that wont be cheap.... especially if its Dinan doing it!

But it might have to be done if this engine wants to see 500 or 600whp.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by chemhalo

Thread needs a new direction....

When Dinan talks about the engine having issues handling more torque, I assume that is because of the open deck design? From looking up some stuff last night, breaking the block or rings losing seal from cylinder movement seem to be the major things that could happen. What I didnt get a clear picture of, was how would Dinan or anyone else reinforce the N54?

I thought they were referring to a bottom end issue when talking about the torque. Could be wrong though...

The open deck will reduce the boost that can be run reliably thats for sure, but I don't think that's what they were eluding to.

[atr_hugo]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

I thought they were referring to a bottom end issue when talking about the torque. Could be wrong though...

I think you're right - that's why I mentioned girdles. A girdle is an extra webbing between the crankacse and oil pan designed to strengthen the bottom end of the block. Some engines come with a girdle straight outta the factory. IIRC, the new Hyundai 3.3/3.8L V6 blocks have girdles (and 6 bolt mains to boot! Good 'hot rod' dog food! ; -).

Here's a pic of a girdle shamelessly stolen from this site: http://www.rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_P...ne_girdle.html

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

This site suggests something that might be considered to strengthen the top end of the block, which is to close the water passages to some extent. Of course there have to be trade offs.

Considering the N54's thermal management issues, that doesn't seem like a viable option unless you upgrade all the major heat exchangers (radiator, external oil cooler, tranny cooler), and probably the water pump also.

It's more viable to suggest that the N54 isn't a 2JZ-GTE and was never designed to be.

[WhereItsAt]

I think in the end, everybody will be surprised by how strong the engine is. Direct injection is a key factor.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

I think in the end, everybody will be surprised by how strong the engine is. Direct injection is a key factor.

How exactly are those two related? We're talking about the strength/stiffness of the block, etc. Mechanically speaking. What in the world direct injection has to do with that I do not know...:iono:

[WhereItsAt]

Sorry I'm multitasking - yikes!


Direct injection allows for a greater amount of boost to high compression - knock deterrent. And while the block is open, which may makes it less likely to see 1000WHP, there are plenty of open decks pushing 6-800 whp without girdles. The turbos will need to be replaced before the block is at its limit. But at those numbers the car is not really a good road car. I'm positive that we will see 450-500 whp cars that run well and do not overstress the engine.

Also, once they get sleeved this is a non issue as well. I agree that the block is not a 2JZ, but non of the huge power engines are stock. The N54 is strong.

[theslik1]

My main concern isn't the strength of the block either...I think the thermal issues are more serious and more limiting. It might be the same situation as the FD RX-7's where you'll have to address the cooling system before performing any serious power upgrades.

I'm wondering at this point if the 135i has the same radiator as the 335i. It will certainly be interesting if it's a more compact/lower capacity unit.

[Brandon26pdx]

N54 is iron sleeved from the factory. Said so in that big article about it stickied in this forum. A good thing for longevity and power potential.

Didnt know it was an open deck, but IIRC the Nissan RB26DETT is an open deck I-6 engine and they make big numbers with those. (Iron block however...)

The turbos and fuel system will likely be the limiting factor well before the bottom end is. I'm guessing 400 RWHP will be about all the stock turbos/fuel will be good for with tune and turbo-back exhuast. 500-600 RWHP would need bigger injectors, upgraded twins or big single turbo and a new tune. I'm sure kits will be available before too long.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by WhereItsAt

Sorry I'm multitasking - yikes!


Direct injection allows for a greater amount of boost to high compression - knock deterrent. And while the block is open, which may makes it less likely to see 1000WHP, there are plenty of open decks pushing 6-800 whp without girdles. The turbos will need to be replaced before the block is at its limit. But at those numbers the car is not really a good road car. I'm positive that we will see 450-500 whp cars that run well and do not overstress the engine.

Also, once they get sleeved this is a non issue as well. I agree that the block is not a 2JZ, but non of the huge power engines are stock. The N54 is strong.

For sure...its already showing its colors...

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by theslik1

My main concern isn't the strength of the block either...I think the thermal issues are more serious and more limiting. It might be the same situation as the FD RX-7's where you'll have to address the cooling system before performing any serious power upgrades.

I'm wondering at this point if the 135i has the same radiator as the 335i. It will certainly be interesting if it's a more compact/lower capacity unit.

Those on-track oil temps are putting a serious damper on my unwaivering enthusiasm for this car. :eyebulge: