DTC & ABS Failure!

alik01 · 02-12-2010, 05:39 AM

Thanks Caduceus, some reason I've never looked at reply titles, I think I must just glance over it.

I think from the sound of things, it's exactly that. Hopefully it get's resolved soon and get the indicators and hill-start back, don't mind TIMYOYO too much, although the tyres might not last too long!

Guran · 02-12-2010, 04:32 PM

Hang on a minute. You've got ABS and DTC failure lights activated which means that neither are currently working on your car ... and your priority is to get a scratched wheel fixed??? I'd suggest that you have a look at your manual which says that if either of these lights show, then you must have the car checked ASAP.

I had a similar issue with my 2002 MINI Cooper S. The airbag failure light kept going off. It could have been a million different things that caused the warning, but in the end it was nothing more than a single wire in the seatbelt pretensioner that had fractionally too high resistance. They replaced the wire and it fixed the problem.

Conclusion. The warning light could be due to something trivial or it could be something serious. Only a visit to your BMW service will sort it out conclusively. And you should not delay, for your own safety.

alik01 · 02-12-2010, 04:51 PM

Guran, thank you for your concern, I see what you are saying.

The thing is, the wheels were something the tyre shop had agreed to do 2 weeks before and there was a lot messing about with my leaving and their loan car, etc... So I just wanted it sorted out soon and with no more issues. I also thought it would only be a few hours and I would have the car at BMW as early as possible, Friday (when I rang up on Thursday). Unfortuantely the tyre shop took a bit longer than expected and I can't take it in till Monday. I am not really driving it at the moment and am using my work car for most things, a Q5 which I love too! Hope that makes a bit more sense now, I am not some stupid kid and I wouldn't intentionally sacrifice my safety or that of other road users and not by a long shot for vanity!

On a side note, the general concensus seems to be steering angle sensor, which got me thinking, the tyre shop messed up the alignment the first time and steering wheel was jittery, could this have led to the demise of the sensor?

amk2912 · 02-12-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alik01

On a side note, the general concensus seems to be steering angle sensor, which got me thinking, the tyre shop messed up the alignment the first time and steering wheel was jittery, could this have led to the demise of the sensor?

It is possible I reckon. My X5 problem occurred when they changed the front brake pads. Also, I noticed the steering wheel is slightly off-centre when the vehicle is tracking straight ahead. It's being looked at this week.

alik01 · 02-12-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amk2912

It is possible I reckon. My X5 problem occurred when they changed the front brake pads. Also, I noticed the steering wheel is slightly off-centre when the vehicle is tracking straight ahead. It's being looked at this week.

Problem is there's probably no way of proving any of it... Looks like your X5 is keeping you occupied with niggles! All the more reason to drive the M I suppose!

amk2912 · 02-12-2010, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alik01

All the more reason to drive the M I suppose!

Problem is while I'm messing around with X5 hassles and the frequent trips to the service dept, the wife is out and about thrashing the M3!!!

Guran · 02-13-2010, 03:55 PM

Good to hear it, alik01.

Hope your problems are all sorted soon. It took us three weeks to get a wheel repaired on our Volvo! First week they repaired some panel damage (insurance job) but forgot the wheel. Second week they sent the wheel away but it came back with paint runs. Third week it came back still with runs, went back again and we finally accepted it even though there were still faint runs. It can be a very frustrating experience dealing with smash repairers!

alik01 · 02-13-2010, 05:31 PM

Guran, sorry to hear about your issues with these guys. Yes, they can be really frustrating to deal with and I have absolutely no trust in them! But they did a pretty job on my wheels, although I noticed some faint runs near the center. I decided to leave it be, since it'll be another hassle to get sorted. Hopefully BMW sorts out the issue on Monday and it get's all sorted. Booked it for the 50K service too, so she'll get a good once over hopefully!

Amk2912, your wife is a lucky lady! Suppose sharing the M3 works well with the Valentine's Day spirit! Hopefully the M button is untouhed during her runs!

alik01 · 02-15-2010, 06:12 AM

Took the car in today to get checked. Came back as the SZL which I think is the steering angle sensor and also they want to replace my radio LCD which dims after being in the sun all day.

Was in a hurry when I went to pick it up so couldn't really get too much. Will call them in the morning to clarify.

This bit is sweet, the dealership is changing owners so my SA said she couldn't order the parts until the new ones took over next month! So they want me to drive around in TIMYOYO for a few weeks! And I miss hill-start assist the most!

I will get in touch with another dealer and have the bit sent up I think. Don't think I'll want to pay $1700 for the LCD though, specially since it's fine at most times!

She was nice enough to waiver the diagnostic charge though.

Will keep you guys posted on the developments!

sparoz · 02-15-2010, 07:11 AM

It is a warranty issue, why did she have to waive the diagnostic charge? My dealer would not let me drive the car out of dealership, because it's unsave to do so, and it was a 120D!

alik01 · 02-16-2010, 03:15 AM

Sparoz, the car is just out of warranty, so no longer a warranty issue, unfortunately. Unsure as to why they let me drive out, didn't even warn me about the danger or anything. I'd like to think she waived the charge because of my dashing good looks but no more likely because she knew I'd be up for pretty big bill!

I called them today to verify everything. The problem is the steering sensor and they've also found an Radio LCD failure (some pixels fade when the car is in the heat) - so need a new radio! I'm up for $3400 in parts alone!

I talked to the warranty clerk at work and he said Audi, Porsche and even Ford have an out of warranty allowance where they will pay of the car has been serviced at a dealer. The dealer has to ask BMW first and if no, customer kicking up a fuss usually helps. I called the BMW girl, and she said she already put in an application which got knocked back. So called BMW and they said they'll look into it and call back tomorrow. So really hoping for BMW picks up the tab, at least for the parts!

As always, will keep you gents posted!

amk2912 · 02-16-2010, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alik01

Sparoz, the car is just out of warranty, so no longer a warranty issue, unfortunately. Unsure as to why they let me drive out, didn't even warn me about the danger or anything. I'd like to think she waived the charge because of my dashing good looks but no more likely because she knew I'd be up for pretty big bill!

I called them today to verify everything. The problem is the steering sensor and they've also found an Radio LCD failure (some pixels fade when the car is in the heat) - so need a new radio! I'm up for $3400 in parts alone!

I talked to the warranty clerk at work and he said Audi, Porsche and even Ford have an out of warranty allowance where they will pay of the car has been serviced at a dealer. The dealer has to ask BMW first and if no, customer kicking up a fuss usually helps. I called the BMW girl, and she said she already put in an application which got knocked back. So called BMW and they said they'll look into it and call back tomorrow. So really hoping for BMW picks up the tab, at least for the parts!

As always, will keep you gents posted!

I suggest you push them for a "goodwill" gesture where they cover the parts and you cover the labour. I mean FFS the car is just out of warranty!

alik01 · 02-16-2010, 04:57 AM

Amk2912, that's what I was gunning for!

But I was told by Bob, the warranty clerk that manufacturers have out-of-warranty allowance where they cover parts and labour. Goodwill is used to make up the difference between the allowance and the repair cost. Audi for instance, has completely picked up
tabs for 2 years out of warranty A4s, parts and labour! Even Ford seems to be doing it often! As long as the customer asks, I think is the name of the game, so hoping for a good resolution soon...

alik01 · 02-16-2010, 09:37 PM

I got 100% goodwill on parts! I just have to pick up the tab on labour!

A little bit of arguing got me off $1400!

So they'll just order the part as soon as they are able to and get me going. In the meantime, I need to be driving very carefully for a bit!

Caduceus · 02-17-2010, 02:28 AM

Can you tell us the breakdown of the cost between the steering sensor and the radio?

alik01 · 02-17-2010, 05:26 AM

Caduceus, I was looking at around $3400 just in parts for the radio and the steering sensor. I'm not sure what the exact prices are as they didn't give me the cost sheet. She said on the phone that the sensor was $1200 something ex. GST. So I think I'm thinking just under $1400. The radio was close to $1700 ex. GST.

They are only going to assist me with the steering sensor. No mas on the radio, it doesn't really bother me, so I won't be changing that.

sparoz · 02-17-2010, 07:06 AM

See if you can get a radio from ebay - it's not hard to take it out and replace it. (or order from the US or see if Andrew can give you a better price.) It is tedious, and you have to be careful with the clips - but definitely doable.

Most just out of warranty problems I had, they have picked up if not all, at least some of the parts, so they should try harder! Specially on the steering sensor as there had been quite a number of failures.

samchuang33 · 02-17-2010, 06:03 PM

Hey guys
I got my DSC module replace recently due to similar problems. Not sure if this is the same problem with urs. Had to wait for 2 weeks for module to come in. And the after installing DSC module, the I-Drive module die on me too.

See link
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326327

Good luck dude.

alik01 · 02-17-2010, 07:45 PM

Sparoz, unfortuantely they don't look as kindly on second owners. I had to tell them this is my 3rd BMW, about how my parents also drive BMW from new, and the only reason I had to get this second hand was because they stopped making them! They supposedly look quite kindly on original owners.

With the radio, I'm really not fussed at all, it works perfectly and a few pixels on the top of the screen fade out when I leave the car out in the sun the whole day and they come back on after 20 minutes with the AC on. I can get the part at cost from a dealer but it's still a good $1200 or so, and I really don't think it's worth the effort at this point.

Samchuang33, thanks for the luck wishes. Appreciate having people to comiserate with! Love this forum more and more everyday.

The issue sounds similar so probably the same thing, this is the steering angle sensor, technical name is SZL, I think and BMW are supposedly notorious for their failure, but usually happens in warranty so no problems, mine is out of warranty so issue time! Hopefully nothing else fails while that's being done.

andrew@southernBM · 02-18-2010, 04:13 AM

The SZL is not the steering angle sensor, it's the whole unit behind the steering wheel which houses the indicator arm etc, it is a whole housing that replaces the old one. When these fail the ABS light comes on, usually run flat light comes on first and wont reset properly and you loose functions of the steering wheel or things like your indicators don't cancel properly. The steering angle sensor has to be reset or aligned after this unit has been installed the the SZL has to be coded to the car. Any independent BMW shop worth there salt can do it and it has been a problem with these cars for a few years now.

Just my 2c

alik01 · 02-18-2010, 05:21 AM

Thanks for your 2c Andrew, was hoping you would weigh in. I assumed the SZL was the sensor as this seemed to be the consensus. My SA, is new and she's great, but don't think she knows a great deal about the cars - had to explain hill-start assist to her.

What's the typical fitment time for the SZL? Just trying to gauge how much I'd be up for in labour.

In Darwin, there's only one BMW dealer and no BMW specialists as far as I know. Moreover, a precious few places are worth their salt here...

andrew@southernBM · 02-19-2010, 09:47 PM

Labour is only a small component of the job, i think the part is $1300 odd and install labour is say 2 hours max plus a programming charge, i suppose the dealer may charge 160-200 for that....i suppose it depends

Maybe ask for a break up of costs before the work is done.

Ahh, Darwin, yes, i feel your pain there. My new car just arrived from Darwin, he noted not many places can do BMW repairs up there.

02-12-2010, 05:39 AM	#23
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Thanks Caduceus, some reason I've never looked at reply titles, I think I must just glance over it. I think from the sound of things, it's exactly that. Hopefully it get's resolved soon and get the indicators and hill-start back, don't mind TIMYOYO too much, although the tyres might not last too long!
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02-12-2010, 04:32 PM	#24
Guran Captain 24 Rep 895 Posts Drives: 08 135i Coupe Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong, Australia iTrader: (0)	Hang on a minute. You've got ABS and DTC failure lights activated which means that neither are currently working on your car ... and your priority is to get a scratched wheel fixed??? I'd suggest that you have a look at your manual which says that if either of these lights show, then you must have the car checked ASAP. I had a similar issue with my 2002 MINI Cooper S. The airbag failure light kept going off. It could have been a million different things that caused the warning, but in the end it was nothing more than a single wire in the seatbelt pretensioner that had fractionally too high resistance. They replaced the wire and it fixed the problem. Conclusion. The warning light could be due to something trivial or it could be something serious. Only a visit to your BMW service will sort it out conclusively. And you should not delay, for your own safety. __________________ 08 BMW 135i Sport Coupe \| Manual \| Sparkling Graphite \| Coral Red Boston Leather \| 10 Speaker Hi Fi
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02-12-2010, 04:51 PM	#25
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Guran, thank you for your concern, I see what you are saying. The thing is, the wheels were something the tyre shop had agreed to do 2 weeks before and there was a lot messing about with my leaving and their loan car, etc... So I just wanted it sorted out soon and with no more issues. I also thought it would only be a few hours and I would have the car at BMW as early as possible, Friday (when I rang up on Thursday). Unfortuantely the tyre shop took a bit longer than expected and I can't take it in till Monday. I am not really driving it at the moment and am using my work car for most things, a Q5 which I love too! Hope that makes a bit more sense now, I am not some stupid kid and I wouldn't intentionally sacrifice my safety or that of other road users and not by a long shot for vanity! On a side note, the general concensus seems to be steering angle sensor, which got me thinking, the tyre shop messed up the alignment the first time and steering wheel was jittery, could this have led to the demise of the sensor?
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02-13-2010, 03:55 PM	#29
Guran Captain 24 Rep 895 Posts Drives: 08 135i Coupe Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wollongong, Australia iTrader: (0)	Good to hear it, alik01. Hope your problems are all sorted soon. It took us three weeks to get a wheel repaired on our Volvo! First week they repaired some panel damage (insurance job) but forgot the wheel. Second week they sent the wheel away but it came back with paint runs. Third week it came back still with runs, went back again and we finally accepted it even though there were still faint runs. It can be a very frustrating experience dealing with smash repairers! __________________ 08 BMW 135i Sport Coupe \| Manual \| Sparkling Graphite \| Coral Red Boston Leather \| 10 Speaker Hi Fi
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02-13-2010, 05:31 PM	#30
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Guran, sorry to hear about your issues with these guys. Yes, they can be really frustrating to deal with and I have absolutely no trust in them! But they did a pretty job on my wheels, although I noticed some faint runs near the center. I decided to leave it be, since it'll be another hassle to get sorted. Hopefully BMW sorts out the issue on Monday and it get's all sorted. Booked it for the 50K service too, so she'll get a good once over hopefully! Amk2912, your wife is a lucky lady! Suppose sharing the M3 works well with the Valentine's Day spirit! Hopefully the M button is untouhed during her runs!
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02-15-2010, 06:12 AM	#31
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Took the car in today to get checked. Came back as the SZL which I think is the steering angle sensor and also they want to replace my radio LCD which dims after being in the sun all day. Was in a hurry when I went to pick it up so couldn't really get too much. Will call them in the morning to clarify. This bit is sweet, the dealership is changing owners so my SA said she couldn't order the parts until the new ones took over next month! So they want me to drive around in TIMYOYO for a few weeks! And I miss hill-start assist the most! I will get in touch with another dealer and have the bit sent up I think. Don't think I'll want to pay $1700 for the LCD though, specially since it's fine at most times! She was nice enough to waiver the diagnostic charge though. Will keep you guys posted on the developments!
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02-15-2010, 07:11 AM	#32
sparoz Brigadier General 191 Rep 4,848 Posts Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sunshine Coast iTrader: (0)	It is a warranty issue, why did she have to waive the diagnostic charge? My dealer would not let me drive the car out of dealership, because it's unsave to do so, and it was a 120D! __________________ Macan S Diesel - Carrera White Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange
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02-16-2010, 03:15 AM	#33
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Sparoz, the car is just out of warranty, so no longer a warranty issue, unfortunately. Unsure as to why they let me drive out, didn't even warn me about the danger or anything. I'd like to think she waived the charge because of my dashing good looks but no more likely because she knew I'd be up for pretty big bill! I called them today to verify everything. The problem is the steering sensor and they've also found an Radio LCD failure (some pixels fade when the car is in the heat) - so need a new radio! I'm up for $3400 in parts alone! I talked to the warranty clerk at work and he said Audi, Porsche and even Ford have an out of warranty allowance where they will pay of the car has been serviced at a dealer. The dealer has to ask BMW first and if no, customer kicking up a fuss usually helps. I called the BMW girl, and she said she already put in an application which got knocked back. So called BMW and they said they'll look into it and call back tomorrow. So really hoping for BMW picks up the tab, at least for the parts! As always, will keep you gents posted!
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02-16-2010, 04:57 AM	#35
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Amk2912, that's what I was gunning for! But I was told by Bob, the warranty clerk that manufacturers have out-of-warranty allowance where they cover parts and labour. Goodwill is used to make up the difference between the allowance and the repair cost. Audi for instance, has completely picked up tabs for 2 years out of warranty A4s, parts and labour! Even Ford seems to be doing it often! As long as the customer asks, I think is the name of the game, so hoping for a good resolution soon...
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02-16-2010, 09:37 PM	#36
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	I got 100% goodwill on parts! I just have to pick up the tab on labour! A little bit of arguing got me off $1400! So they'll just order the part as soon as they are able to and get me going. In the meantime, I need to be driving very carefully for a bit!
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02-17-2010, 02:28 AM	#37
Caduceus First Lieutenant 342 Rep 396 Posts Drives: 2008 135 (sold), 2017 M2 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Parts Can you tell us the breakdown of the cost between the steering sensor and the radio?
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02-17-2010, 05:26 AM	#38
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Caduceus, I was looking at around $3400 just in parts for the radio and the steering sensor. I'm not sure what the exact prices are as they didn't give me the cost sheet. She said on the phone that the sensor was $1200 something ex. GST. So I think I'm thinking just under $1400. The radio was close to $1700 ex. GST. They are only going to assist me with the steering sensor. No mas on the radio, it doesn't really bother me, so I won't be changing that.
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02-17-2010, 07:06 AM	#39
sparoz Brigadier General 191 Rep 4,848 Posts Drives: VO 1///M; Macan Turbo Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Sunshine Coast iTrader: (0)	See if you can get a radio from ebay - it's not hard to take it out and replace it. (or order from the US or see if Andrew can give you a better price.) It is tedious, and you have to be careful with the clips - but definitely doable. Most just out of warranty problems I had, they have picked up if not all, at least some of the parts, so they should try harder! Specially on the steering sensor as there had been quite a number of failures. __________________ Macan S Diesel - Carrera White Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange
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02-17-2010, 06:03 PM	#40
samchuang33 Captain 38 Rep 780 Posts Drives: MY 16 440i & MY20 X7 30d Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane AUS iTrader: (0)	Hey guys I got my DSC module replace recently due to similar problems. Not sure if this is the same problem with urs. Had to wait for 2 weeks for module to come in. And the after installing DSC module, the I-Drive module die on me too. See link http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326327 Good luck dude. __________________ 2020 BMW G07 X7 3.0d M Sport 2018 Audi FY Audi SQ5 2016 BMW F36 440i GC M Sport
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02-17-2010, 07:45 PM	#41
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Sparoz, unfortuantely they don't look as kindly on second owners. I had to tell them this is my 3rd BMW, about how my parents also drive BMW from new, and the only reason I had to get this second hand was because they stopped making them! They supposedly look quite kindly on original owners. With the radio, I'm really not fussed at all, it works perfectly and a few pixels on the top of the screen fade out when I leave the car out in the sun the whole day and they come back on after 20 minutes with the AC on. I can get the part at cost from a dealer but it's still a good $1200 or so, and I really don't think it's worth the effort at this point. Samchuang33, thanks for the luck wishes. Appreciate having people to comiserate with! Love this forum more and more everyday. The issue sounds similar so probably the same thing, this is the steering angle sensor, technical name is SZL, I think and BMW are supposedly notorious for their failure, but usually happens in warranty so no problems, mine is out of warranty so issue time! Hopefully nothing else fails while that's being done.
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02-18-2010, 04:13 AM	#42
andrew@southernBM 168 Rep 1,536 Posts Drives: M3 F80, M140i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia. iTrader: (0)	The SZL is not the steering angle sensor, it's the whole unit behind the steering wheel which houses the indicator arm etc, it is a whole housing that replaces the old one. When these fail the ABS light comes on, usually run flat light comes on first and wont reset properly and you loose functions of the steering wheel or things like your indicators don't cancel properly. The steering angle sensor has to be reset or aligned after this unit has been installed the the SZL has to be coded to the car. Any independent BMW shop worth there salt can do it and it has been a problem with these cars for a few years now. Just my 2c
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02-18-2010, 05:21 AM	#43
alik01 Lieutenant Colonel 51 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: Slowly & Responsibly Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Darwin, Australia iTrader: (0)	Thanks for your 2c Andrew, was hoping you would weigh in. I assumed the SZL was the sensor as this seemed to be the consensus. My SA, is new and she's great, but don't think she knows a great deal about the cars - had to explain hill-start assist to her. What's the typical fitment time for the SZL? Just trying to gauge how much I'd be up for in labour. In Darwin, there's only one BMW dealer and no BMW specialists as far as I know. Moreover, a precious few places are worth their salt here...
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02-19-2010, 09:47 PM	#44
andrew@southernBM 168 Rep 1,536 Posts Drives: M3 F80, M140i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia. iTrader: (0)	Labour is only a small component of the job, i think the part is $1300 odd and install labour is say 2 hours max plus a programming charge, i suppose the dealer may charge 160-200 for that....i suppose it depends Maybe ask for a break up of costs before the work is done. Ahh, Darwin, yes, i feel your pain there. My new car just arrived from Darwin, he noted not many places can do BMW repairs up there.
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