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      06-06-2013, 12:43 PM   #1
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How to go about getting color for powdercoat?

I would like to powder coat my wheels. I have the name of the color but do not have an exact code/ number etc. The color is BBS wheel option/ color "Diamond Black" Does anyone have more info pertaining or on how I should go about this? Any help is always much appreciated!
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      06-06-2013, 02:39 PM   #2
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There's been a decent amount of discussion regarding the potential effect that powder coating can have on the strength of the wheel due to the baking process involved in PC'ing. Just a heads up, but you might want to search that topic.
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      06-07-2013, 04:09 PM   #3
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Not sure if this helps but I had mine pc'd at the local dealership. Just gave them a sample and they sent them to a professional wheel shop to be matched. I read all the discussion on powdercoating, etc. Not sure I buy it. I am sure some joe 6 pack who does any powdercoating could screw it up. But in my opinion, with professional wheel shop you should be fine. Plus for me the advantage of using the dealership is warranty if something was to happen and it was super convenient. I did a metallic gunmetal and the finish is absolutely flawless.

Last edited by rad doc; 06-07-2013 at 09:14 PM..
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      06-08-2013, 07:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Not sure if this helps but I had mine pc'd at the local dealership. Just gave them a sample and they sent them to a professional wheel shop to be matched. I read all the discussion on powdercoating, etc. Not sure I buy it. I am sure some joe 6 pack who does any powdercoating could screw it up. But in my opinion, with professional wheel shop you should be fine. Plus for me the advantage of using the dealership is warranty if something was to happen and it was super convenient. I did a metallic gunmetal and the finish is absolutely flawless.
Do you mind sharing some photos on how they came out?!
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      06-08-2013, 01:03 PM   #5
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Sure, sorry for crappy iphone pics. Not at home so this is all I have with me. Will post a few better shots as soon as I can. Photo looks a little darker but it is a little more gray in person. Similar to the Vorsteiner 1M. Has a nice metallic shine to it in person. Thought it would look good with the gloss black grills and side markes (sitting on my desk) and some carbon aero bits in front and back (ordered)
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      06-10-2013, 08:55 AM   #6
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Stunning!

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Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Sure, sorry for crappy iphone pics. Not at home so this is all I have with me. Will post a few better shots as soon as I can. Photo looks a little darker but it is a little more gray in person. Similar to the Vorsteiner 1M. Has a nice metallic shine to it in person. Thought it would look good with the gloss black grills and side markes (sitting on my desk) and some carbon aero bits in front and back (ordered)
That truly looks exceptional/ stunning! Thanks for sharing!
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      06-10-2013, 10:59 AM   #7
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I guess BBS keeps this color and many others a secret from the public. No paint codes have been released. Of course this happens with the color I make my mind up on... There was a white 1er with an audi titanium wheel color featured in a BMW article. Does anyone know that exact color code or can even direct me to that car?
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      06-10-2013, 01:41 PM   #8
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I had a couple wheels on my last car repaired, and while I was at it gave the shop the other 2 to change up the color on them all. They had a book of powdercoat colors to choose from. If you can't find what you're looking for, definitively, maybe just go down to the shop, sort through their samples, find the closest match to what you want and go for it.
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      06-14-2013, 05:31 PM   #9
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This my current colour as I found the GTS black was too dark and hid the wheel detail, the colour is Audi avensus gray.
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      06-16-2013, 09:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denso View Post
This my current colour as I found the GTS black was too dark and hid the wheel detail, the colour is Audi avensus gray.
Looks good, did you get them powder coated? Also does the color look brighter in real life. I find that pictures often lose detail on darker parts on cars, depicting them as darker than they actually are.
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      06-17-2013, 12:17 AM   #11
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Looks good, did you get them powder coated? Also does the color look brighter in real life. I find that pictures often lose detail on darker parts on cars, depicting them as darker than they actually are.
You are correct the iphone pictures make them look about 30% darker than they are in real life. They are powder coated and I am really happy with how they turned out
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      06-17-2013, 07:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flzrider View Post
There's been a decent amount of discussion regarding the potential effect that powder coating can have on the strength of the wheel due to the baking process involved in PC'ing. Just a heads up, but you might want to search that topic.

there's a decent amount of discussion based on BS, innuendo, falsehoods, and perpetuated myths.. ......

Seriously.. powder coating won't damage or alter the strength of the wheel.
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      06-18-2013, 01:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
there's a decent amount of discussion based on BS, innuendo, falsehoods, and perpetuated myths.. ......

Seriously.. powder coating won't damage or alter the strength of the wheel.
What's your source for that information?
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      06-18-2013, 01:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flzrider View Post
What's your source for that information?
I doubt he has sources that it wont harm the wheel and I doubt you have sources that it will harm the wheel. Just a bunch of discussion but no real hard facts or solid evidence. Unless you account "Joe bobs wheel broke" or "XYZ wheel company says so." Like I said before, find a good wheel shop who warranties the work and don't worry.
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      06-19-2013, 09:50 AM   #15
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I wouldn't worry about the effect of powder coating on the wheel alloy. A typical cast aluminum wheel alloy is A356. It's "optimal" heat treatment is stated by at least one source as a solution treatment at 540 C followed by a quench and then an age for 6 hours at 155 C. They also got similar properties if the anneal was at 170 C and varied up to 10 hours. At 20 hours the properties started to change noticably.

Powder coating requires the parts to be heated to about 200 C for 10 minutes (there are lower temperaturs used for some applications but I am guessing wheels use the normal temperature). This is in the aging range for the alloy and is so short it should not affect it at all. It is well under the temperature where the alloying elements might start to relocate (i.e. 540 C). An age that is too long tends to lead to slightly lower yield strength but higher ductility. I don't think this is in that category but a slight decrease in yield strength in exchange for higher ductility would not be a bad thing for a wheel IMHO. Yield strength helps to avoid deformation, ductility helps to avoid cracking.

If it matters to anybody, my degree is in mechanical engineering. But automotive stuff is my hobby, not my field of expertise.

Jim
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      06-19-2013, 10:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD View Post
I wouldn't worry about the effect of powder coating on the wheel alloy. A typical cast aluminum wheel alloy is A356. It's "optimal" heat treatment is stated by at least one source as a solution treatment at 540 C followed by a quench and then an age for 6 hours at 155 C. They also got similar properties if the anneal was at 170 C and varied up to 10 hours. At 20 hours the properties started to change noticably.

Powder coating requires the parts to be heated to about 200 C for 10 minutes (there are lower temperaturs used for some applications but I am guessing wheels use the normal temperature). This is in the aging range for the alloy and is so short it should not affect it at all. It is well under the temperature where the alloying elements might start to relocate (i.e. 540 C). An age that is too long tends to lead to slightly lower yield strength but higher ductility. I don't think this is in that category but a slight decrease in yield strength in exchange for higher ductility would not be a bad thing for a wheel IMHO. Yield strength helps to avoid deformation, ductility helps to avoid cracking.

If it matters to anybody, my degree is in mechanical engineering. But automotive stuff is my hobby, not my field of expertise.

Jim
+1, aside from language, had the same textbook.
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      06-19-2013, 10:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD View Post
I wouldn't worry about the effect of powder coating on the wheel alloy. A typical cast aluminum wheel alloy is A356. It's "optimal" heat treatment is stated by at least one source as a solution treatment at 540 C followed by a quench and then an age for 6 hours at 155 C. They also got similar properties if the anneal was at 170 C and varied up to 10 hours. At 20 hours the properties started to change noticably.

Powder coating requires the parts to be heated to about 200 C for 10 minutes (there are lower temperaturs used for some applications but I am guessing wheels use the normal temperature). This is in the aging range for the alloy and is so short it should not affect it at all. It is well under the temperature where the alloying elements might start to relocate (i.e. 540 C). An age that is too long tends to lead to slightly lower yield strength but higher ductility. I don't think this is in that category but a slight decrease in yield strength in exchange for higher ductility would not be a bad thing for a wheel IMHO. Yield strength helps to avoid deformation, ductility helps to avoid cracking.

If it matters to anybody, my degree is in mechanical engineering. But automotive stuff is my hobby, not my field of expertise.

Jim
My degree is also in mechanical engineering, and just like you, metallurgy is not my expertise either. While I don't necessarily disagree with anything you posted above, there is certainly a good amount of guesstimating and assuming going on. I generally like to play things conservatively and always give the benefit of the doubt to the engineers who designed the part.
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      06-19-2013, 12:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flzrider View Post
My degree is also in mechanical engineering, and just like you, metallurgy is not my expertise either. While I don't necessarily disagree with anything you posted above, there is certainly a good amount of guesstimating and assuming going on. I generally like to play things conservatively and always give the benefit of the doubt to the engineers who designed the part.
Agree with all of the above, but would also like to state that I have had 7 sets of wheels powder coated. These have covered anything from 16,000 to 75,000 miles with no issues at all
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      06-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #19
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What's your source for that information?
the laws of Physics and Chemistry. Check out the melting point of aluminum alloy vs the heating temperature of powdercoat ovens.

Contact a company like WHEELS AMERICA, WHEEL TECHNOLOGIES etc that paint and or powdercoat THOUSANDS of wheels a year and then back them with a LIFETIME warranty!

Have a conversation with an actual powder coater as well instead of propagating internet myths.


Most of the people who report issues with wheels that they have powdercoated have of course then tracked those wheels. Wheels, powderodated or otherwise, become a WEAR part when subjected to track use. They should be checked periodically just like one checks brake pads and rotors. A wheel with cracks in it should of course be replaced. Blaming the powdercoat process is ignoring the elephant in the room.
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      06-19-2013, 06:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flzrider View Post
My degree is also in mechanical engineering,.
uh- oh! that explains it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by flzrider View Post
. I generally like to play things conservatively and always give the benefit of the doubt to the engineers who designed the part.

I am sure glad another ENGINEER posted a reply, so you would believe it.... lol

all kidding aside.... powdercoaters get a bad rap... and for no good reason... are there people out their doing bad work? sure.. probably so.... just like there are bad claim adjusters out there and engineers that create a bad design from time to time..

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 06-19-2013 at 06:34 PM..
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      06-20-2013, 12:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
the laws of Physics and Chemistry. Check out the melting point of aluminum alloy vs the heating temperature of powdercoat ovens.
This statement alone clearly shows you don't know much about material sciences. No internet myths here. Read over JimD's post; he mentions the finer details you're missing. I can almost guarantee you there is a difference in the material properties of an aluminum alloy wheel before and after powder coating. What is in question here is how much it differs and if it makes any real-world difference. There appears to be a great deal of anecdotal evidence showing that powder coating is generally safe, but that doesn't prove anything with certainty. Also, if you notice, most OEM wheels are liquid spray painted, not powder coated. The only place I see powder coated wheels is in the aftermarket, where there is generally less factor of safety and more assumed risk. Besides, I see no harm in having this discussion, isn't that what car forums are all about?
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      06-21-2013, 05:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
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This statement alone clearly shows you don't know much about material sciences. No internet myths here. Read over JimD's post; he mentions the finer details you're missing. I can almost guarantee you there is a difference in the material properties of an aluminum alloy wheel before and after powder coating. What is in question here is how much it differs and if it makes any real-world difference. There appears to be a great deal of anecdotal evidence showing that powder coating is generally safe, but that doesn't prove anything with certainty. Also, if you notice, most OEM wheels are liquid spray painted, not powder coated. The only place I see powder coated wheels is in the aftermarket, where there is generally less factor of safety and more assumed risk. Besides, I see no harm in having this discussion, isn't that what car forums are all about?

you are certainly wecome to entertain as many responses as you would like in this forum, however,
As I stated above.... the only person an engineer will listen to, is another engineer..... To be perfectly honest,
this type of discussion is clearly more appropriate in an engineering forum, where enginerds can discuss " finer details" ad nauseam, as engineers are wont to do. Please do let us all know when you find out an answer with proof of certainty....

until then.. the rest of us NON engineer types will not lose any sleep using a reputable powdercoater as per rad doc's suggestion.

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 06-21-2013 at 06:07 PM..
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