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      10-12-2015, 04:41 PM   #45
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Does anyone have a part numbers list to do the entire 135 rear axle using M3 parts ? Arms, links, shock mount, etc ? Also I assume doing the M3 shock mounts allows you to run rear shocks intended for the M3 ? Only asking as I have a set of E92 M3 coil overs I would like to fit on my E82 135i.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
I agree. They didn't just take the 135i parts and manufacture them will different bushings and such, they had their own set of goals for that car, and they designed the arms to meet those. And I would absolutely say the M3 parts are better than non-M components. That's not an argument imo. For the M3 Lower camber links, they're lighter, reducing the unsprung weight, the shock mount is superior, and they're stronger. HPA said they are 2lbs lighter per side than the standard parts.
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      10-12-2015, 04:51 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Does anyone have a part numbers list to do the entire 135 rear axle using M3 parts ? Arms, links, shock mount, etc ? Also I assume doing the M3 shock mounts allows you to run rear shocks intended for the M3 ? Only asking as I have a set of E92 M3 coil overs I would like to fit on my E82 135i.
I don't have a list of parts for you, but give HP Autosport a call and they can help you out with that. And yes, once you have the M3 lower camber link you will have to run M3 shocks back there
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      10-12-2015, 05:04 PM   #47
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Are M3 front struts a direct fit to the stock E82 front spindle ? This assuming M3 front arms are installed.


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Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
I don't have a list of parts for you, but give HP Autosport a call and they can help you out with that. And yes, once you have the M3 lower camber link you will have to run M3 shocks back there
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      10-13-2015, 01:32 AM   #48
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I am also seeking this answer.

Also what is the overall take on M3 subframe bushings vs OEM E82 bushings ?


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Originally Posted by mike082802 View Post
i was thinking about replacing all the rear arms with M3 stuff but after reading this the general consensus is its a waste?
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      10-13-2015, 09:34 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
I am also seeking this answer.

Also what is the overall take on M3 subframe bushings vs OEM E82 bushings ?
The prevailing school of thought is the OE 135/128 subframe bushings are horrendous, and you should do whiteline inserts (bandaid) or M3 bushings at a minimum, some people go poly or even solid aluminum.

And no your M3 front shocks will not work on the OE 135i spindles, but I think you can modify the spindle or shock to work, or get 1M spindles. you will have to confirm that though.
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      10-18-2015, 07:54 AM   #50
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Why go with poly or solid aluminum compared to the M3's Brushings?
I've only heard of the whiteline inserts or M3 brushings is why I'm asking.
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      10-18-2015, 07:00 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.M.W. View Post
Why go with poly or solid aluminum compared to the M3's Brushings?
I've only heard of the whiteline inserts or M3 brushings is why I'm asking.
Here are my thoughts on poly bushings:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1158856

They're very high quality. You can buy the same style bushings as Powerflex or Whiteline. I went with Nolathane because its Australian so its the cheapest to source.

Its less expensive and stiffer than the M3 bushings and MUCH easier to install. No brainer for me but people always gravitate towards the ///M stuff.
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      10-18-2015, 11:31 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl View Post
Here are my thoughts on poly bushings:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1158856

They're very high quality. You can buy the same style bushings as Powerflex or Whiteline. I went with Nolathane because its Australian so its the cheapest to source.

Its less expensive and stiffer than the M3 bushings and MUCH easier to install. No brainer for me but people always gravitate towards the ///M stuff.
I have the Whiteline inserts and will be replacing them with the TMS Alu. replacements next time my rear subframe is out- do it once!

I've had poly on other cars and would only use it on easily serviceable locations.
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      11-24-2015, 01:57 AM   #53
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very informative thread, thank you.

This weekend I picked up coilovers, M3 front control arms, e93 M3 front sway, and the M3 rsfbs. I had seen all these threads about people picking up rear guides and so-on, and I wasn't really sold on it.

Regarding the bushings, I will say that while you can certainly get solid poly bushings instead of the M3 OEM, there's always that tradeoff for how much solid bushings deter from the overall daily ride quality in a car. I track regularly in summer, but the reality is the N5x and the (admittedly) piggish weight of the 135i doesn't do it any favors as a pure track car, even if you try to make it one. So I still use my car as a summer DD that has track duty maybe 5% of the time.

As a result, going all-out on trying to get the best race parts for this car just isn't worth it unless I'm gonna strip the car, put in some decent race seats (stock M-sport seats my helmet has millimeters clearance to the roof when I sit in the car), absurdly expensive brake upgrades, and add better cooling - basically making it useless for the street.

I personally look for the best balance I can get of street compliance and the ability to track 5-8 times a year and have some decent turn-in, and a rear end that isn't completely and totally vague. As such I opted for M3 bits.
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      01-21-2016, 03:24 PM   #54
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Questions that have been plaguing me: . . .
Perhaps its my inner nerd'ism but I enjoy reading these posts and contemplating the analysis and conclusions. Rather than long blather filled opinion about what ifs and I bets (which are fine in discussion) the science and conclusions impart nuggets of wisdom for those willing to mine these posts. Well done
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      01-21-2016, 04:15 PM   #55
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Will fitment vary if we have aftermarket coils? I have the Bilstein PSS10s installed on the car now, but I don't see the difference between the e82 version and the m3 version..
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      05-12-2016, 10:57 AM   #56
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I am a little confused here, what about the M3 guide rods on a 135i?
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      05-12-2016, 11:05 AM   #57
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Quote:
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I am a little confused here, what about the M3 guide rods on a 135i?
What about them? It's a direct fit part; just have to remove the stock one and install the M3 part.
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      05-12-2016, 11:10 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I am a little confused here, what about the M3 guide rods on a 135i?
What about them? It's a direct fit part; just have to remove the stock one and install the M3 part.
Is that considered an upgrade for the 135i? Because what i gather here is a no for all fo these parts... i want my rear not to deflect side to side on amhard acceleration, i was thinking the megan racing toe arms and these m3 guide rods.
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      05-12-2016, 04:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I am a little confused here, what about the M3 guide rods on a 135i?
What about them? It's a direct fit part; just have to remove the stock one and install the M3 part.
Is that considered an upgrade for the 135i? Because what i gather here is a no for all fo these parts... i want my rear not to deflect side to side on amhard acceleration, i was thinking the megan racing toe arms and these m3 guide rods.
from the original post:

Changing the Upper Arm from OE to M3 has no effect on wheel rate as both configurations use similar rubber bushings at both ends.

Changing the Guide Rod from OE to M3 removes one rubber bushing and replaces it with a ball joint, resulting in a softening of the suspension.

Installation of a ball-jointed Toe Control Arm (like the Rogue Engineering part) removes two rubber bushings, resulting in a further softening of the suspension.

Assuming the latter two changes are made, the wheel rate contributed by the rubber bushings is reduced to 23 lb/in. This is equivalent to a spring rate of 72 lb/in or 13 N/mm (at the rear spring location). A fully ball-jointed suspension would remove all this wheel rate and would need to be compensated for by a corresponding increase in spring rate.
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      06-02-2016, 02:15 AM   #60
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Very interesting thread; taught me a lot, so kudos to the OP and thanks for the post!

However (check me if I'm wrong), it sounds like the gains are to be had by replacing the guide and toe rods and leaving the upper arm alone. Using the M3 guide rod is a no-brainer since the length of the M3 part is the same as 135 OE. What options exist for the toe rod however? The OP has made his own, but are there off the shelf options for those not quite so talented as he? Any recommendations?

Also, it's mentioned that replacing these two parts will result in a rear spring rate reduction of ~23 lb/in. How significant is this? For example, I'm running Eibach springs in the rear; what percentage of my total spring rate would this add up to? 5%? More? Less? Did I say how awesome this post was?

Thanks for any info,

ianc
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      06-02-2016, 02:43 AM   #61
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Are the ball joints in the stock guide rods the same diameter as the toe arms?

I am thinking it would be pretty easy to just press them out of some spare guide rods and press them into the toe arms if the diameter is the same? If the bushings are smaller then a sleeve could be potentially machined up to fit the gap between the two.
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      07-14-2016, 06:39 PM   #62
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This is an amazing thread. Props to the OP!

I've been going back and forth between replacing my oe bits with m3 bits. The car handles great with my tc Kline coils and camber kit. The biggest thing is the side to side sway in the rear on WOT acceleration. With readin this thread, it seems like tha bushings are to blame more then anything correct?

What would be best piece to replace to negate this "ass shaking" on WOT acceleration? Or would it be more of an entire bit swap?

I have 265's of good rubber, 450+hp, good coils with camber kit. So, u can kinda know a little bit about the car.

Thank you so much! Again, OP your the man! Best thread I have read in a while.
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      12-11-2016, 05:28 AM   #63
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fe1rx, do you have a theory on dynamic toe and camber as a result of bush deflection when launching? I saw your other thread showing that there is very little bump steer with everything unloaded. I'm trying to decide whether it's justifiable getting M3 guide rods. Every review I've seen, people have also upgraded other items. I already have M3 subframe bushes. I've been happy with my setup for over two years but now I have more power and traction is a real issue.
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      12-13-2016, 11:56 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsm87 View Post
fe1rx, do you have a theory on dynamic toe and camber as a result of bush deflection when launching? I saw your other thread showing that there is very little bump steer with everything unloaded. I'm trying to decide whether it's justifiable getting M3 guide rods. Every review I've seen, people have also upgraded other items. I already have M3 subframe bushes. I've been happy with my setup for over two years but now I have more power and traction is a real issue.
Bottom line is you need more rear rubber to launch 400+hp.

I am not so sure moving to spherical bushings will help launching much. The stock bushings are able to absorb energy which helps aid in off-the-line traction. However, this "wind-up" effect also has to rebound and un-wind which is bad for handling and wheel hop.

People moving to spherical bushings in drag racing seem to mainly do so because the torsional effect when launching on poly bushings can cause them to tear and fail.

Spherical bushings will help you maintain alignment, yes. The stock bushings actually toe-in under load as they deflect. Again, this aids in straight line stability.

The deflection measurements of OE vs M3 have been graphed. The M3 parts deflect significantly less which results in less of the "side-to-side" motion people describe.

Question is, do the benefits outweigh the costs? For most people that seems to be a yes. The soft stock suspension doesn't match the power of the car at all.

Once you stiffen one aspect of the car (like the springs) you then cant help but notice every other soft busing in the car... engine mounts, transmission mounts, control arms, differential bushings, and then there is the lack of alignment options with stock toe/camber arms. It's all made from insanely soft rubber that's designed to give a luxury ride, not performance. It's a slippery slope... replace it all and you've got a beast of a car on track though.

Last edited by bNks334; 09-05-2017 at 03:22 PM.
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      12-17-2016, 01:14 AM   #65
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Quote:
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The stock bushings actually toe-in under load as they deflect. Again, this aids in straight line stability.
That's what I thought/expected. That's why I'm hesitant to throw money into the arms. I guess I just need to run less negative camber and lower tire pressures to get a decent contact patch on the road.

Do you know how aggressive the camber gain is on the rear of these cars? I'm thinking of going down to -1.0 camber if the factory adjustment has enough range. As long as it cambers in enough in the corners.
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      12-17-2016, 07:59 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsm87 View Post
Do you know how aggressive the camber gain is on the rear of these cars? I'm thinking of going down to -1.0 camber if the factory adjustment has enough range. As long as it cambers in enough in the corners.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=23

If you scroll down this post a bit you will see that the measured camber gain is about -0.5 per inch of rear suspension bump travel.

If the outside wheel moves up 0.5" and the inside wheel moves down 0.5" the car rolls 1 degree (because the track is about 60 inches - the good old "one in 60 rule" says a deflection of 1 in 60 equals approximately 1 degree). The car has rolled 1 degree but the outside rear tire has only gained half a degree in camber. Accordingly, you should expect that some camber relative to the road surface will be lost when the car rolls, but the amount is respectable if you have a reasonably stiff setup and a decent amount of negative camber to start with.

As a track setup, rear static camber of about -2 works pretty well for me. My total roll stiffness is about 1.2 per g.

As you add negative camber to the rear you run out of toe adjustment with the stock toe link at about -2 camber.
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