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      05-21-2016, 03:45 PM   #45
hydra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I marked the eccentric bolts before removal, and I checked the toe after reinstall with my plates. Still spot on.

Why would you think adjustable toe links are the best solution, if the toe links don't appear to be the problem?




Yeah, could be the inner camber arm bushing, or the guide rods.

I'll probably cave and buy a set of inner camber arm bushings on the cheap.....but I doubt I'll spring for the M3 guide rods at this point, at least not on the 135, as I'll probably be selling in a year or so.

Perhaps I'll try them on the X1, which suffers from the same problem, albeit to a lesser extent.

Edit: What are you referring to as the "camber arm"? The camber arm is the sheet metal arm that supports the spring on an E90, but that's not what the Godspeed camber arms are.

By camber arm I meant the upper camber arm behind the guide rod... Keep in mind the factory toe arm bushings are pretty soft as well and lead to unintended toe changes under acceleration...
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      05-21-2016, 06:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I marked the eccentric bolts before removal, and I checked the toe after reinstall with my plates. Still spot on.

Why would you think adjustable toe links are the best solution, if the toe links don't appear to be the problem?
The toe adjustment is very sensitive to changes is the position of the bushes and eccentric bolt, so I'm kind of surprised you can re assemble the suspension without needing an professional alignment. But if you did it, then its all good! Using the same logic about the forces and deflection, I think any movement at all with the toe arms will be undesirable.

I was also reading about the inner camber arm bushings at Bimmerworld. Their description was interesting reading, and may be a possible source of toe errors.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensio...aring-Kit.html
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      05-21-2016, 09:13 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
The toe adjustment is very sensitive to changes is the position of the bushes and eccentric bolt, so I'm kind of surprised you can re assemble the suspension without needing an professional alignment. But if you did it, then its all good! Using the same logic about the forces and deflection, I think any movement at all with the toe arms will be undesirable.

I was also reading about the inner camber arm bushings at Bimmerworld. Their description was interesting reading, and may be a possible source of toe errors.

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensio...aring-Kit.html
Ugg, $250 for two bushings? Yikes. I know there are other poly alternatives out there, I'll probably check them out.

Not sure what you're talking about regarding the alignment. The toe arm is rigid (in tension and compression). The bushings are rigid. The only variable is the rotational angle of the eccentric bolt. Mark its position, and no toe change should be expected.

A "professional" alignment, as opposed to any other form of measurement? Yup, 3/16ths before, 3/16ths after. Confirmed again today after a day on the road. Why that is surprising, I'm not sure. It shouldn't be.

I'll throw it on a rack every year or so as usual...but again, since the start of this thread...this is 1000% NOT an alignment issue.
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      05-21-2016, 09:21 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydra View Post
By camber arm I meant the upper camber arm behind the guide rod... Keep in mind the factory toe arm bushings are pretty soft as well and lead to unintended toe changes under acceleration...
Can you post a figure? Again, the "camber arm" is the arm supporting the spring. There are multiple upper guide arms, so I don't know which you are referring to.

www.realoem.com What number?



Quote:
Originally Posted by hydra View Post
Keep in mind the factory toe arm bushings are pretty soft as well and lead to unintended toe changes under acceleration...
Have you been reading some other thread?

Yes, we know. That's what we're discussing. That's why I pressed them out and installed polys. As well as polys for the trailing arms (subframe and uprights).

...And how the replacement of those bushings improved nothing...and in fact made the dreaded snap-back more pronounced.
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Last edited by PrematureApex; 05-21-2016 at 09:30 PM.
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      05-21-2016, 09:35 PM   #49
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Replacing bushings that move multi-axis in practice with poly is a pretty terrible idea.
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      05-22-2016, 04:15 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Can you post a figure? Again, the "camber arm" is the arm supporting the spring. There are multiple upper guide arms, so I don't know which you are referring to.

www.realoem.com What number?


Was referring to number 17 here, the aftermarket calls this an adjustable camber arm...

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      05-22-2016, 07:18 AM   #51
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I solved my rear end sway issue with aftermarket toe arms, M3 RFSB, M3 guide rods, and diff lock down bracket designed by a forum member.

Car is tuned and delivers a lot of power. Also has a more agressive 3.46 ratio torsen LSD ...
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      05-22-2016, 08:28 AM   #52
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Same setup/rear end I've got on my car minus the diff lockdown bracket, made one hell of a difference!
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      05-23-2016, 11:47 AM   #53
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So I will ask again?

Has anyone put a performance run flat on this car? I assure you this will nearly fix the issue without worrying about the suspension.
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      05-23-2016, 03:34 PM   #54
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While I'd love for a less expensive option, I'm starting to wonder what the actual difference is between those with aftermarket toe (Manzo/RE/Megan) and m3 guide arms, and those with poly replacements in those locations. The arm swap option appears to perform better to me from reading here and there. Unfortunately , that's a terrible way to try to research setups. Would be better if there was someone who had done both. That's unlikely.

dcaron9999 how are your manzo toe arms holding up?
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      05-23-2016, 05:07 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe
While I'd love for a less expensive option, I'm starting to wonder what the actual difference is between those with aftermarket toe (Manzo/RE/Megan) and m3 guide arms, and those with poly replacements in those locations. The arm swap option appears to perform better to me from reading here and there. Unfortunately , that's a terrible way to try to research setups. Would be better if there was someone who had done both. That's unlikely.

dcaron9999 how are your manzo toe arms holding up?
It sounds to me going by the majority, that the m3 guide rods with megan racing toe arms is the best option... but i need someone to definitively state this car is not all over the place in the rear after.
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      05-23-2016, 05:25 PM   #56
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I am running he m3 arms, whiteline rsfb, and bimmerworld toe arms. My rear end was very stable With both b8/swift spec r or m3 lca and tc Kline da with 600 springs.

I have only tested the suspension on canyons though. I am planning to go to Buttonwillow raceway this weekend so will provide any additional feedback after driving on a track.
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      05-24-2016, 10:27 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
Replacing bushings that move multi-axis in practice with poly is a pretty terrible idea.
What's the distinction between rubber and poly in those applications? There are many, many multi-axis applications across BMW lines where poly is a staple/standard upgrade. Suddenly poly trailing arm bushings are a terrible idea, when just about every E46 runs poly back there with great results? Or tensions arm bushings? Or countless others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydra View Post

Was referring to number 17 here, the aftermarket calls this an adjustable camber arm...
Thanks!
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Last edited by PrematureApex; 05-24-2016 at 11:11 PM.
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      05-25-2016, 12:05 AM   #58
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Poly RTABs are a bad idea on E46 / E36 chassis too, you introduce a good amount of bind in travel.
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      05-25-2016, 07:39 AM   #59
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Has anyone done the black series solid race bushings? may be a bit rough but this is as solid as u can get
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      05-25-2016, 08:29 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
Poly RTABs are a bad idea on E46 / E36 chassis too, you introduce a good amount of bind in travel.
So many reasonable posts, and then you go and lay that egg.
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      05-26-2016, 08:33 PM   #61
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They do. Have been through that myself.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...products_id=59

That's why these exist from them and many other vendors. Limit lateral slop but allow multi-axis movement to continue.

Jack the control arm at its outermost point in the rear and you will see all of the arms moving slightly in all axes.
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      05-28-2016, 11:26 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
They do. Have been through that myself.

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...products_id=59

That's why these exist from them and many other vendors. Limit lateral slop but allow multi-axis movement to continue.

Jack the control arm at its outermost point in the rear and you will see all of the arms moving slightly in all axes.
Still need something which will fit our chassis .
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      05-29-2016, 09:20 AM   #63
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http://www.aurorabearing.com/product-catalogs.html
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      05-29-2016, 02:08 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Could you be more specific?
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      05-29-2016, 02:47 PM   #65
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Put sphericals there is what he's suggesting. It's what I would do if I could within my ruleset.
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      05-29-2016, 04:38 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanDavies View Post
Put sphericals there is what he's suggesting. It's what I would do if I could within my ruleset.
Yup, hard to beat sphericals. Multi-axis and no slop.
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