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      02-17-2013, 11:32 PM   #23
aerobod
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Besides reading the owners manual regarding start/stop and understanding it's full capabilities, here is a comprehensive description: http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/60650...-f30-3-series/

A few key features:

- It won't shutdown a cold engine
- There are several ways to temporarily defeat it, without shutting it off (for example applying extra brake pressure when stopped then easing off the brake slightly or turning the steering wheel).
- When stopped, coolant will still continue to circulate through the engine and turbos due to the electric water pump.

As all North Americans are "nubes" when it comes to understanding and using start/stop properly, it will take time and increased fuel prices to appreciate it the way many Europeans do.

Automatic start/stop is a key feature on mid-sized cars such as the VW Passat or BMW 320d that enables them to exceed 60mpg (50 US mpg / 4.7 l/100km) on the combined city/highway cycle.
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      02-17-2013, 11:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post

A few key features:

- It won't shutdown a cold engine
- There are several ways to temporarily defeat it, without shutting it off (for example applying extra brake pressure when stopped then easing off the brake slightly or turning the steering wheel).
- When stopped, coolant will still continue to circulate through the engine and turbos due to the electric water pump.

Oh, ok, so it does have a safety feature to avoid restarting a cold engine. I've always been taught that cold starts are when a lot of engine wear occurs. I'm all about saving gas to save the environment but I'm not really interested in saving the environment if it destroys the motor in my car.

I'm still not convinced about removing oil pressure as a heat sink not being harmful to turbo chargers part. That goes against everything automotive engineers have taught us about turbocharging.

And, I wouldn't really be interested in "defeating" the system. That's sort of like sitting on your seatbelt so you don't have to listen to the chime lol.

Anyway, thank you for the info - I don't have ASS on any of my cars but I'm looking forward to having it one day if its as good as advertised.
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      02-18-2013, 12:16 AM   #25
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Another way to defeat it is to put the car into sport mode - the car doesnt shut off when gated over to the left.
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      02-18-2013, 12:35 AM   #26
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I have a theory about why these horrid, start-stop systems are catching on. It's not because it's a selling point that the car gets another 5mpg.The president says that by 2025 cars need to average 55mpg. There are stages to this political move. Car makers need 35.5mpg by 2016. If they disagree they get the bad rep of being pollution contributors. These stupid start-stop engines are the only way they can meet the numbers. It's a horrible thought but this resurrection of the muscle car war that we are seeing now is once again nearing its end.
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      02-18-2013, 12:54 AM   #27
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Quote:
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I have a theory about why these horrid, start-stop systems are catching on. It's not because it's a selling point that the car gets another 5mpg.The president says that by 2025 cars need to average 55mpg. There are stages to this political move. Car makers need 35.5mpg by 2016. If they disagree they get the bad rep of being pollution contributors. These stupid start-stop engines are the only way they can meet the numbers. It's a horrible thought but this resurrection of the muscle car war that we are seeing now is once again nearing its end.
Ive had late night scotch induced musings on the parallels between the 1960s and the early 2000s.

Its not just on the power wars, either. Car design was interesting and unique as well. Weve since recovered from the Malez (sp?) era of terrible looking cars. But in the 60s everything was unique and interesting looking, much like what we have now.


Its the first time in my life that ive looked at one of the cheapest cars on the market and said, hey thats actually kinda nice.


Maybe ive had too much scotch tonight...
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      02-18-2013, 01:09 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loesch View Post
I have a theory about why these horrid, start-stop systems are catching on. It's not because it's a selling point that the car gets another 5mpg.The president says that by 2025 cars need to average 55mpg. There are stages to this political move. Car makers need 35.5mpg by 2016. If they disagree they get the bad rep of being pollution contributors. These stupid start-stop engines are the only way they can meet the numbers. It's a horrible thought but this resurrection of the muscle car war that we are seeing now is once again nearing its end.
I'm all about fuel economy and saving the environment but it sounds to me like engineers are being told that they need to ignore the iron law of physics.

They keep building more turbocharged motors and all of a sudden telling us its OK to randomly shut the engine off to save fuel. Why wasn't that OK 10 years ago? I think a lot of people are forgetting why the automotive industry mostly gave up on turbocharging gas engines a generation ago.
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      02-18-2013, 01:09 AM   #29
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For the record, you can never have too much Scotch.
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      02-18-2013, 01:17 AM   #30
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For the record, you can never have too much Scotch.
so true.

ASS was one of my favorite things about my 535 loaner. when you acclimate to it you realize it is quite easy to get along with. it saved me a good 2+mpg in our stifling traffic
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      02-18-2013, 01:19 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
I'm all about fuel economy and saving the environment but it sounds to me like engineers are being told that they need to ignore the iron law of physics.

They keep building more turbocharged motors and all of a sudden telling us its OK to randomly shut the engine off to save fuel. Why wasn't that OK 10 years ago? I think a lot of people are forgetting why the automotive industry mostly gave up on turbocharging gas engines a generation ago.
Actually I think this is one positive of the fuel mileage wars. Turbo'ed cars have always been stigmatized as unreliable. Now with the n20 and others this is changing perspectives. People accept that turbos can generate the power people are used to while still increasing fuel efficiency.
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      02-18-2013, 01:43 AM   #32
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Actually I think this is one positive of the fuel mileage wars. Turbo'ed cars have always been stigmatized as unreliable. Now with the n20 and others this is changing perspectives. People accept that turbos can generate the power people are used to while still increasing fuel efficiency.
Turbo charged cars were labeled as unreliable because they were unreliable. The enemy of turbos has always been heat. I hope the use of auto stop-start doesn't accidentally bring back the enemy...
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      02-18-2013, 01:44 AM   #33
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Good point. We'll see how it all plays out.
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      02-18-2013, 02:43 AM   #34
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Quote:
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Good point. We'll see how it all plays out.

Start up and shut down are the areas where turbochargers are most at risk. Most engine wear occurs at start up.

Basically, it's is okay to shut down a hot naturally aspirated engine, but its really bad for a turbocharged motor. To avoid coking of oil on the bearings, it's always been a good idea to let the engine idle for a minute or so. That's always been the best way to shut down a turbocharged engine.

Perhaps bearing technology has improved to the point where it doesn't matter anymore? I doubt it but like you wrote, we'll see.
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      02-18-2013, 09:22 AM   #35
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I understand the concept, and for better or worse it's very likely here to stay, but BMW needs to refine it big time. I've driven ASS cars a handful of times in the past year, and without exception they're clunky and just feel "dumb" when the car restarts. It doesn't have to be rolls royce silent, but i'd like a bit less of an event at every stoplight I drive away from. FWIW I did notice pretty nice fuel economy in all the 328 F30s I drove when my car was in for service, driven with modest haste they do very nicely on suburban roads/traffic. And I'll also echo what a few others have said, there's just no way ASS can be good on the motor and starter...just no way. I'm not saying it's going to grenade the block, but constantly starting and stopping a motor just seems like a recipie for long term wear.
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      02-18-2013, 09:25 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
Basically, it's is okay to shut down a hot naturally aspirated engine, but its really bad for a turbocharged motor. To avoid coking of oil on the bearings, it's always been a good idea to let the engine idle for a minute or so. That's always been the best way to shut down a turbocharged engine.
The turbo/s are cooled with coolant, my ancient 88 porsche turbo runs an electric coolant motor to cool down the turbo bearing slowly over a period of 30 mins after a drive. I have had zero issues with coking the oil in the turbo by shutting the car down hot.

I am even less worried about it in modern turbo motors that run the coolant after shutdown like these do.

I don't like like the auto stop/start either but my only complaint would be from the interruption felt in the cabin and the added starter cranks.
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      02-18-2013, 09:51 AM   #37
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start/stop also does a lot f wear and tear on the battery/starter. My German dealer told me they often see the battery fail before two years is up.
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      02-18-2013, 10:24 AM   #38
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start/stop also does a lot f wear and tear on the battery/starter. My German dealer told me they often see the battery fail before two years is up.
Wow blowing through a battery in 2 years? I guess that makes sense with the ASS system....It seems to me like these systems are just not quite ready for prime time, another few years of development would do 'em good.
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      02-18-2013, 10:27 AM   #39
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If ASS really does become standard and doesnt die out like i hope it will, i know i'll be searching for a way to permanently turn it off. I dont know if the built in switches turn it off on restarts or if you have to hit it every time, but if i have to hit it every time i'll get additionally pissed. I dont care if i get an extra mpg or two, it's not worth the hassle of worrying about additional wear on ANYTHING in my car.
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      02-18-2013, 10:44 AM   #40
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If ASS really does become standard and doesnt die out like i hope it will, i know i'll be searching for a way to permanently turn it off. I dont know if the built in switches turn it off on restarts or if you have to hit it every time, but if i have to hit it every time i'll get additionally pissed. I dont care if i get an extra mpg or two, it's not worth the hassle of worrying about additional wear on ANYTHING in my car.
The German coder's know how to code the car so it is always off.
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      02-18-2013, 11:10 AM   #41
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X1 with an N55 sounds like potential for a fun ride.
My X1 with the n55 is a heck of a lot of fun!!! getting the JB4 stage 2 and it will be a lot more fun!
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      02-18-2013, 11:24 AM   #42
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The German coder's know how to code the car so it is always off.
excellent news
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      02-18-2013, 12:54 PM   #43
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Its funny because years ago when I was a kid I was in Germany and we stayed with a family friend who was living outside Frankfurt as an expat from the US.

I remember him telling me about the cultural differences he discovered between Germany and the US.

One day he was stopped at a light and the guy stopped behind him gets out of his car walks over and starts yelling at our friend (who's German was iffy). He had no idea why but pretty much blew it off thinking this guy was just nuts. He found out later that at certain intersections (like this particular one) there are signs telling you to shut your car off during red lights. And this guy being a good German was yelling at him for not complying.

So this isn't really anythng new )at least in Germany) but its still kind of silly IMO. Though gas in Europe is like $8/gallon so it might make more sense there than here.
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      02-18-2013, 01:54 PM   #44
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Get a bicycle?

Yes, we want to kill the planet, that must be it!

Screw my kids. Kill the planet!!

Thinks BMW ASS is stupid = kill the planet.
Thinks pushing a button to turn it off = too difficult
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