BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      09-07-2013, 11:19 PM   #1
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BWM Performance Brake Kit 128i

Anyone have any recent experience with the BMW kit for the 128i?
ECS shows non-painted rear calipers
http://www.ecstuning.com/ES205609/
but bavarian autosport shows the rears painted...previous posts show they are not painted.

Will a 135i or E90 kit fit if I want to go this route? I don't think I want to make the leap to a true bbk as then I have to throw out my 17" track wheels/tires.

Any advice on brake upgrades for the 128, particularly with track experience, would be greatly appreciated.
thanks!
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      09-10-2013, 11:50 PM   #2
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2008 BMW 128i  [10.00]
rears for the 128i in the kit are just painted silver &new vs your current ones that may already have some rust.

for track , many of the 128i guys here just go with pads vs other kits.

over all 128i options are:
pads, & some slotted rotors of stock brakes
BMW Perf 128i kit
135i brakes or 135i BMWPerf kits - buy you lose hand brake and have to cut your rear heat sheild/ dust shield ( i have this, no regrets for my street driving)
Racing brake piston upgrades, and even rotor upgrades for 128i Perf & 135i brakes
BBK's
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      09-11-2013, 02:08 PM   #3
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hey andrey do you have a link for the piston upgrades? (sounds intriguing)
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      09-11-2013, 02:35 PM   #4
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Brembo makes a fitment for the E87(hatch version of our car) for 17" wheels.

Would much rather do that than waste money on the BMW fake BBK and the half assed retrofitting needed to make it work. BMW kit also doesn't fit under that many 17s.
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      09-11-2013, 06:33 PM   #5
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You can buy the BMW Performance brake kit and rebuild it with StopTech internals for cheaper than you can buy a StopTech kit.

It just pisses me off that BMW makes you buy rear axle brakes which are, as far as I can tell, exactly the same as stock. And the price has gone up dramatically. A couple of years ago I was looking at the kit, and it was being sol for just under $1000. Now it's more like $2000. No thanks.

I've wondered about just buying the E90 kit, which is front axle only, along with the StopTech rebuild kit. Lately I'm leaning towards just upgrading pads (likely Hawk HP+, if I can stand the noise) and brake fluid, plus maybe SS lines. Won't be bling, but should stop good.
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      09-12-2013, 12:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
135i brakes or 135i BMWPerf kits - buy you lose hand brake and have to cut
Do you never park your car on hills or slightly slopped drives ways, etc? I see you have a 6MT, how do you even get away from not using the hand brake every time your park somewhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Brembo makes a fitment for the E87(hatch version of our car) for 17" wheels.

Would much rather do that than waste money on the BMW fake BBK and the half assed retrofitting needed to make it work. BMW kit also doesn't fit under that many 17s.
I wouldn't call the BMW BBK fake or even half assed. For 128i guys it is a extremely big upgrade in stopping power.

But as for expensive, yes they are. At $2000 might as well shell out a bit more and get a full front BBK from Brembo, Stoptech, Mov'it, etc.

For the OP, is it worth the upgrade, yes. It is worth the money.... NO!!!!
I would only get the BMW Performance Brake Kit if you find it on sale again close to $1000.

Other than that, used front brakes from a 135i will do you just as well plus save you lots of money.
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      09-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
Lately I'm leaning towards just upgrading pads (likely Hawk HP+, if I can stand the noise) and brake fluid, plus maybe SS lines. Won't be bling, but should stop good.
I think this would be a much better choice, and likely achieve the same if not better results due to the upgraded pad compound. I'm also completely disenchanted with StopTech after helping at buddy install them on his E46 M3. The entire unit felt a bit poorly thought out compared to Brembo units I have worked with.

Brembo makes a E87 kit(or two actually) that will fit under our 17s and is actually meant for our cars.

http://www.brembo.com/it/Auto/Racing...ion%20list.pdf

Two piece Kit:
1A2.6027A

http://motorsportworld.co.uk/framefi...27A&PID=626808


Or the cheaper 1 piece kit:
1A4.6010A

http://www.dcperformance.co.uk/cheap...1a4-6010a.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeros and ones View Post
I wouldn't call the BMW BBK fake or even half assed. For 128i guys it is a extremely big upgrade in stopping power.
You have no idea how brakes work.
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      09-12-2013, 07:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
You have no idea how brakes work.
Glad to see people still deal with absolutes which in-itself is idiotic. You have no idea what and how much I know about breaks.

But since you know soooo much about brakes and seem to be the all mighty guru of have brakes and how they actually work,

tell is oh mighty guru of brakes and all things that have the power to stop moving object why are the BMW Performance Brakes so fake or half assed?

is it because you can not used them on the track properly?
is it because when they get super hot they over cook the piston seals and they need to be replaced?
have you had experience with them at all to say they are half assed?

So please... if I know nothing about brakes be informative and not act like an idiot with such a useless statement.
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      09-12-2013, 08:33 PM   #9
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      09-12-2013, 09:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeros and ones View Post
Glad to see people still deal with absolutes which in-itself is idiotic. You have no idea what and how much I know about breaks.
I know you can't spell brakes, which speaks volumes.

A BBK doesn't change stopping power, it increases heat capacity. The BMW setup is half assed because it fails to do what a BBK should, increase heat capacity. Instead they have rather catastrophic failure in high load scenarios.
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      09-12-2013, 09:54 PM   #11
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2008 BMW 128i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeros and ones View Post
Do you never park your car on hills or slightly slopped drives ways, etc? I see you have a 6MT, how do you even get away from not using the hand brake every time your park somewhere?
I leave it in 1st gear. I've had hand brakes fail on previous manual cars, so I stopped using them. I agree with the concern over parking on hills, but thankfully my city is flat.

BMW's hill assist is quite good in manual 1series. So far no regrets.
As far as performance it was very noticeable improvement over the worn out brakes & poor pads that I had on the car from previous owner. I do not even have the 128i Perf brake computer flash.

For track, i cannot comment. I guess all the issues of 135i brakes apply, but lessened since a 128i would not reach the same speeds.
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      09-12-2013, 10:32 PM   #12
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I guess with the bigger front pads, stopping power should be increased, right?

For the right price I might pick up some used Performance or 135i front calipers, rebuild with StopTech pistons, use pads and rotors of my choosing, along with the aforementioned SS lines and fluid and - voila - budget BBK.
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      09-12-2013, 11:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
IA BBK doesn't change stopping power, it increases heat capacity. The BMW setup is half assed because it fails to do what a BBK should, increase heat capacity. Instead they have rather catastrophic failure in high load scenarios.


Been down this path with others on this forum. Can you say cognitive dissonance?
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      09-13-2013, 08:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
I guess with the bigger front pads, stopping power should be increased, right?

For the right price I might pick up some used Performance or 135i front calipers, rebuild with StopTech pistons, use pads and rotors of my choosing, along with the aforementioned SS lines and fluid and - voila - budget BBK.
Once again, stopping heat capacity, not power. Tires determine stopping power as well as effective brake controllers. Your brakes have enough power stock to easily lock up the tires, just pull the ABS fuse.

I'm also not talking about pedal feel or pad bite, those are separate modifiers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post


Been down this path with others on this forum. Can you say cognitive dissonance?
People believe what they want to about the mods they do. BBKs have to be one of the most widely misunderstood mods.
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      09-13-2013, 10:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Once again, stopping heat capacity, not power. Tires determine stopping power as well as effective brake controllers. Your brakes have enough power stock to easily lock up the tires, just pull the ABS fuse.

I'm also not talking about pedal feel or pad bite, those are separate modifiers.



People believe what they want to about the mods they do. BBKs have to be one of the most widely misunderstood mods.
Man speaks the truth, stock calipers will stop the car the same as a bbk. End of day comes down to tires. I only upgraded bbk on the other car after experiencing fade a couple times on track, and that was after upgrading to track pads and hi-temp fluids. The only way a BBK would incrementally help with stopping power is that all BBK's come with larger rotors -> larger sweeping area. But if the BBK came with same rotor and pads, the larger caliper in itself would not equate into better stopping. The bbk's value comes in its ability to withstand fade, ie not overheat. Aftermarket bbk on an street car = ultimate poser mod because it's not going to help on street one bit.

However with that said, the 135i calipers aren't that bad. Early reports of the pistons failing were also due to folks using the wrong pad fitment b/c at the time there weren't many options for that specific caliper. I would think proper pads (meant for that calipers) + bending the backing plate + titanium plates should be enough. Replacing the pistons is great but rebuilding calipers isn't a fun task neither. I would do that as a last option given the time & money involved on that end.
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      09-13-2013, 10:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
I know you can't spell brakes, which speaks volumes.

A BBK doesn't change stopping power, it increases heat capacity. The BMW setup is half assed because it fails to do what a BBK should, increase heat capacity. Instead they have rather catastrophic failure in high load scenarios.
Oh wow... I mis-spelled brakes once and that speaks volumes. Volumes of what? It speaks more volumes of you that you had nothing else productive to say beside I mis-spelled brakes.

So the fact that the BMW performance Brake Kit is not only larger than the standard 128i brakes it does not dissipate heat better? is that what you are saying? cause that is what is sounds like you are saying.

And this so called catastrophic failure in high load, I and pretty sure you are referring to using them on the track. This already a known issue and is mute. That alone does not make these brakes fake.

When the rotors crack on Porche under excessive heat from track use... do we all yell "THE BRAKES ARE FAKE". I think not. And yes I am only talking about the brakes or is this not such a known fact as the BMW Performance Brake kit as such high failure rates?

So far you have no told me anything new oh guru of brakes and all things that have the power to stop moving object.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Your brakes have enough power stock to easily lock up the tires, just pull the ABS fuse.
Yup, I like skidding to stops when I press hard on my brake peddle in an emergency situation. I am just saying
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      09-13-2013, 10:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
Man speaks the truth, stock calipers will stop the car the same as a bbk. End of day comes down to tires. I only upgraded bbk on the other car after experiencing fade a couple times on track, and that was after upgrading to track pads and hi-temp fluids. The only way a BBK would incrementally help with stopping power is that all BBK's come with larger rotors -> larger sweeping area. But if the BBK came with same rotor and pads, the larger caliper in itself would not equate into better stopping. The bbk's value comes in its ability to withstand fade, ie not overheat. Aftermarket bbk on an street car = ultimate poser mod because it's not going to help on street one bit.

However with that said, the 135i calipers aren't that bad. Early reports of the pistons failing were also due to folks using the wrong pad fitment b/c at the time there weren't many options for that specific caliper. I would think proper pads (meant for that calipers) + bending the backing plate + titanium plates should be enough. Replacing the pistons is great but rebuilding calipers isn't a fun task neither. I would do that as a last option give the time & money involved on that end.
Thank you sir. Now this is a man that knows about brakes. Very good explanation.

P.S. The man is correct on what he states, I just don't like people in general who assume things they know nothing about.
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      09-13-2013, 10:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeros and ones View Post
Thank you sir. Now this is a man that knows about brakes. Very good explanation.

P.S. The man is correct on what he states, I just don't like people in general who assume things they know nothing about.
No problem, and just keep in mind another thing. I'm still new to the 1 platform but if you plan on upgrading to a 135i caliper but without the rear (not sure if they offer the rear), you're also messing with the brake bias. The BMW engineers (and every car engineer for that matter) has figured the correct caliper size, piston bore size, rotor diameter, etc to come up with a balanced braking system. By slapping on front brakes from another car, yes while it may *fit*, you may actually be worsening your stopping distance. Really good article on brake bias:

http://zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm

But the point is, if you're going to purchase a BBK, find one that's specifically meant for not only your car, but also meant to work with your stock rear or purchase the rear BBK that compliments the front.

A lot of what people report as improvement in braking really comes down to the feel, not the actual stopping distance. And I'm not discounting the *feel* aspect but just trying to clarify where your money is being spent. Me personally, for a street car I'd get good pads, blank rotors (forget drilled or slotted), ss lines for pedal feel and high temp fluids and call it a day. Don't get track pads for a street car, you won't ever get them to ideal operating temps so they'll actually perform worse than a street pad, not to mention squeal like a school bus and cover your wheels in corrosive dust.
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      09-13-2013, 10:35 AM   #19
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So pad size doesn't mean anything? And pad compound only affects initial bite, modulation, etc? What is the purpose of a larger caliper? Surely not just to dissipate heat? What'e the benefit of having multiple sets of pistons if a larger caliper is just basically a heat sink?
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      09-13-2013, 10:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
No problem, and just keep in mind another thing. I'm still new to the 1 platform but if you plan on upgrading to a 135i caliper but without the rear (not sure if they offer the rear), you're also messing with the brake bias.
If I were to do this, I would also make sure to get the BMW Performance brake kit coding done at the dealer. Since the 128i Performance kit is basically just front 135i calipers painted yellow, should be the same. I don't know exactly what the coding is for, but I assume it addresses the change in brake bias, optimizes ABS, etc.

If I were to change the calipers, I admit it would be mostly for bling. But I would only do it in conjunction with a pad/rotor/fluid/brake line change, with a mind to improving AX performance. Those are all things I will likely do anyway when the warranty runs out next spring and I stop getting free brake work done. My opinion is that it certainly doesn't hurt to add the calipers, if it can be done at a reasonable cost.

I just don't think I need a $3000-$4000 BBK.
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      09-13-2013, 10:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
So pad size doesn't mean anything? And pad compound only affects initial bite, modulation, etc? What is the purpose of a larger caliper? Surely not just to dissipate heat? What'e the benefit of having multiple sets of pistons if a larger caliper is just basically a heat sink?
This is how I rationalize it, but if there are brake *experts* out here feel free to chime in.

Big brakes have better ventilation, which help dissipate the heat generated from rotor and pads. Larger and more pistons = increase clamping force on the brake pad. Clamping force has to be increased when the rotors heat up in order to avoid fade. See the common theme here?

The larger caliper serves the purpose of being able to accept a larger rotor, which as I mentioned before means larger swept area. That will help with stopping distance but most of the benefit of a big brake kit comes from its ability to avoid overheating.
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      09-13-2013, 10:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
If I were to do this, I would also make sure to get the BMW Performance brake kit coding done at the dealer. Since the 128i Performance kit is basically just front 135i calipers painted yellow, should be the same. I don't know exactly what the coding is for, but I assume it addresses the change in brake bias, optimizes ABS, etc.

If I were to change the calipers, I admit it would be mostly for bling. But I would only do it in conjunction with a pad/rotor/fluid/brake line change, with a mind to improving AX performance. Those are all things I will likely do anyway when the warranty runs out next spring and I stop getting free brake work done. My opinion is that it certainly doesn't hurt to add the calipers, if it can be done at a reasonable cost.

I just don't think I need a $3000-$4000 BBK.
Coding sounds like a ton of BS. Reminds me of the thread I read when a BMW service adviser said they would need to recode the car after changing to the performance stainless steel pedals. Our brakes work off a hydraulic system, don't see how coding would even come in play.

I did auto-x for 2 season, I honestly never experienced fade once. Your typical auto-x course is about 1 minute and you're never really out of 2nd gear. If you're doing that many hard stops during auto-x, you're probably just hurting your times.

If you want the bling, go for it. I have nothing against it. I'd be a hypocrite if I said my carbon fiber lip was for downforce I'm merely trying to debunk certain myths here.
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