Driving stick around town...

[JC Jai]

This is my first manual transmission vehicle and I am not very experienced in stick. I have not done the CDV modification. I am curious to know how more experienced drivers out there are driving their cars around town. My main question centers on when to downshift when slowing down for turns. Especially for 90-degrees right turns. I find myself between 2nd and 3rd gear all the time, meaning that my vehicle is often too quick to downshift to 2nd w/o the rev matching (which I can't do very well yet) and yet the car is too slow for 3rd. From others' many advice, I understand the best way to navigate a turn is downshift to the appropriate gear and make the turn. Often I find myself negotiating a 90-degree right turn at ~35-40 Km/h; I've tried downshifting to 3rd gear and make the turn, but often the vehicle is too slow coming out of the turn. Entering the turn at 25 Km/h and above, I find it hard to downshift to 2nd as often there's a rather big jolt when I clutch out before the turn. Any advice is most welcome

[marcus]

I usually drive slow turns in 2nd. What I would do since its your first manual; find an open big parking lot and get to know your car. After driving a while you will get the hang of it. I was in Berlin a few weeks ago and man.....talk about shifting and pushing the clutch but its fun.

[sunking420]

I generally take 90 degree turns in second gear. You can put the car in neutral and coast to the intersection using the brakes to slow you down. I've noticed this car can coast a long way, and use that to advantage when I can. Hopefully it saves a little gas...

[imported_easyman]

Down shift before the turn.. practice makes perfect. Wont be long before you can rev match with your eyes closed.

[amdmaxx]

^^ Any proof? I been coasting downhill and to red lights all my life..

[WhiteOne]

In the Alps I could take uphill hairpin turns in 2nd or third gear. The car didn't care. Plenty of power in 3rd.
Downshift as you approach a turn and then excellerate through it. That is how I always heard it shoud be done.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Markoni

Proof of?

Fuel savings? Yes, it's an active feature of most modern engines.

Safety? Yes, it's common knowledge. Coasting downhill out of gear is a recipe for disaster. The fact that nothing has happened to you yet doesn't change that fact. Cars belong in gear. Disconnecting the drivetrain from the road (i.e. coasting in neutral) is never a good idea.

Whats unsafe about it? Why the need to be in gear? You can stop easily when coasting and I cant imagine a situation where rapid acceleration would be required.

Coasting is probably the best/easiest method to use for a new manual driver. Once he can coast through a turn, put the car back in gear, and accelerate again perfectly then he can try more advanced techniques like downshifting.

[NickmanBMW]

i hate to say it, but the 135 n54 engine isnt the best choice for your 1st manual tranny just because of the massive amounts of TQ. I would have gotten better at another car 1st that isnt quite as poweful(i started on an 88 mustang 4 banger and progressed my way up to an e36 m3 now) I've driven a 335 stick and the clutch is very light and smooth, so just give it a few weeks and it will be second nature)

And about the gas mileage, in my m3 if you put it in neutral while you are coasting, it does use slightly more gas, and you will also save your brakes by keeping it in gear.

I want my 135 bad now with the european delivery prices they are a steal!

[JC Jai]

For the most part i'm pretty used to it now... it's just the turns that I am most confused about. seems like the consensus is 2nd gear; I just find myself not slow enough to be in 2nd gear when I'm entering the turn, maybe i'll slow down more for turns :P

[JC Jai]

yea I was taught to be always in gear as well, unless you are at a stop the vehicle should always be in gear. Really how much gas can it save by coasting downhill if any.

[gatorfast]

How fast are you going before making a turn? 2nd gear should take you to 60mph or so correct? So unless you are going over 60 then you should be able to shift into 2nd (with rev matching of course). If not then downshift into 3rd and take the turn a little faster.

[e36chris]

my dad shifts into 2nd after the turn, i have ALWAYS shifted into 2nd before the turn... any 90 turn u want to be in 2nd no doubt, if u find urself coming in too hot just brake a bit harder and downshift.

any other turn u should worry about being and 3rd and stuff, but 90 degree turns i've always done in 2nd


coasting to a stop? maybe if im going very slow (under 20 to the lights), but i feel that i use far too much of my brake pads when i do coast because the car picks up speed (downhill), i've always kept it in gear, nothing too low to keep the revs down but never coasted.. i remember my old integra crapped out on me when i downshift, one of the cylinders stopped working or something was messed up, but it was an old car. never had probs with my e36 or my ...ford now

[MikeVictor]

JC Jai that "jerk" you're experiencing when you clutch out in 2nd before you turn is a result of the engine revs not being high enough.

Try this-

Once you've applied the brake as required to set your speed before corner entry, downshift to second and "blip" the throttle.

By this I mean give it enough of the pump to put the revs where they need to be for when you let out the clutch.

This should result in a smooth engagement of the gear and much happy cornering

ps. as for the hijacked part of the thread, I'm gonna weigh in with my 2c and say neutral is bad, always leave it in gear. If you're not in gear then it reduces the cars ability to manouvre and can be potentially hazardous.

[JC Jai]

I mean, in city driving, it isn't practical to rev match all the time, is it ?

[JC Jai]

I understand that a manual will never be as smooth as an automatic (especially with me behind the wheel), but is it normal to feel a bit of a jerk when you are downshifting ? It happens sometimes when I downshift and maybe miss the RPM by a couple hundred.

[Stratos]

How fast do you guys let out the clutch when downshifting?

[JC Jai]

Originally Posted by Stratos

How fast do you guys let out the clutch when downshifting?

How fast are you suppose to let it out ?

[Stratos]

This goes for daily driving around town...
When downshifting you can let the clutch out a bit slow(er).
Since you dont apply any power/torque (right foot braking, left foot clutching), and the only force on the clutch is due to reving up the engine, this does not cause extensive wear.

Agressive driving requires other methods, such as reving up in between gears and so on.

[Brandon26pdx]

Originally Posted by JC Jai

Entering the turn at 25 Km/h and above, I find it hard to downshift to 2nd as often there's a rather big jolt when I clutch out before the turn. Any advice is most welcome

Give the throttle a harder blip before letting the clutch out in 2nd.

Smooth downshifting is just a matter of timing the pedal release with the proper amount of throttle blip.

[nordique14]

If you are in the correct gear when you start your turn and then in too high a gear at end of your turn (i.e. very low RPM) and lugging the engine, then you are still braking (or slowing down) while you are turning. If you were at a track school, they wuld tell you to get all of your braking done before you start your turn. That way you are in the correct gear going into the turn and then you will be shifting into a higher gear after you exit the turn. This keeps the car settled and is the best way to learn to take corners.

[JC Jai]

Originally Posted by nordique14

If you are in the correct gear when you start your turn and then in too high a gear at end of your turn (i.e. very low RPM) and lugging the engine, then you are still braking (or slowing down) while you are turning. If you were at a track school, they wuld tell you to get all of your braking done before you start your turn. That way you are in the correct gear going into the turn and then you will be shifting into a higher gear after you exit the turn. This keeps the car settled and is the best way to learn to take corners.

then I must begin changing my driving style... so do you guys brake pretty hard just before entering the turn then ?

[akak1997]

To see the mpg differences between coasting to stop or in gear/engine braking to stop, set your computer to show the instant mpg.
if you are In gear, you get 99.99mpg, coz you're not using a drop of gas.
if you're Not in gear, you get between 15-20mpg depends on how fast you're coasting. The slower you're coasting, the smaller the mpg number.

A note on mpg values on our computers. I think I read it from the manual or on 1addict somewhere that if you're coasting in gear, that 99.99mpg value will not be factored into the avg mpg value. So you may not know your actual mpg if you coast in gear a lot.