Automobile mag: twenty-year lows - iDrive

jpsquared · 03-19-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashe Too

On a lighter note, I won't deny being a slightly judgmental curmudgeon and think all you I-Drive fans are geeks

Yes.. I'm definitely a geek. "I love technology" (see final scene of Napoleon Dynamite)

It's funny, If the NAV screen & Idrive weren't offered at all, I still would have bought my E90. I still don't get why people are getting their panties in a knot over this stupid button, complaining of no added value when at the end of the day it's just a different learning curve.

I mean some of the rants over this, including in the automotive press, are raging spasms of hatred. Jeez, folks, it's just a gizmo in your car. Who knows, maybe it is a passing fad. But by the time it runs it's course, something else to bitch about will have taken it's place.

Now, seatbelt ticking noises - that makes my blood boil...

Whatever - I've now officially spent too much time on this love/hate topic. I'm going driving, and I'm gonna hit every preset on my radio with my glorious little Idrive button. Cheers.

N1 · 03-19-2006, 03:34 PM

lol without windows the hardware of bmw its not in first place is it not?

pharding · 03-20-2006, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown

I would like some info on the age of people who don't like, or bash iDrive. Including the journalists.
I bet its 45+ .....

I am 54 and I like it. It is really not difficult to use.

aarnt · 03-21-2006, 01:47 AM

I accept that some people don't like the iDrive, it is so reasonable.But to those that believe that some more buttons would be better than iDrive... think of the following.

You have a screen close to the wind-screen, that you can blink and take a look to get informed of your position, of the name of the track etc. You also have a turn knob and 2 bottuns in the exact position you palm can rest. This way the time you spend not looking to the windscreen can be minimal. (BMW)

You have a screen in the center of your console, and may buttons arround it. in order to make any changes you have to look down to the console (miles away from windscreen) to find the button or look at the screen. (Mercedes)

You have a screen near the windscreen, and a knob where your hand palm rests, also some buttons around the knob and some around the screen. In some occasions you will not look away from the windscreen, in some others you will. (Audi)

You have some buttons in the console, but no screen and therefore no NAV and no chance of setting up these small details that occasionally will take to the dealer to do so. Obviously you have a maximum of 15 buttons to learn that most you already know so there is not much looking away from the windscreen. (Any car without "human interface" gadgets)

There you have it! An analysis of the ergonomics that BMW most possibly have done. I prefer the BMW solution much more than that of the MERC and AUDI. BMW, made the iDrive an option of the 3series because it is supposed to be also a cheap BMW for some, and 2000euros would make a difference. It was for marketing reasons too I admit, but economics sound much better IMO.

Some people have it and hate it (not me), some people don't have it and want it. All of us anjoy driving this amazing car. Both sides now admit that it is not so hard to learn, but those who don't want it also don't think that the learning curve is reasonable.. and that is so fair!! Those who want it can have it, those who don't they can leave it out! I can't see why BMW has failed at that, it gave you the choice and you used it!

As for the guy that was surprised by what I said about AUDI and VW, didn't you know that Audis are VW in disguise? TT is really a golf modified from Audi, A4 is a Passat (almost not modified at all), A6 is a Jetta.... It is funny how the Skodas look like Audis and VWs, they are all under the VW group of companies

Kudos to all!

Bimmerista · 03-21-2006, 09:39 AM

AArnt, in NA unless you get Nav, the only thing the Idrive does is drive you crazy trying to figure out how to use your radio.

Thankfully I am still capable of dealing with the radio buttons.

PS
You are off about the Audi VW platforms and simply having platforms shared does not make Audi "disguised" VWs. You want to *itch about bagde engeneering, pick the right company, GM, Ford, Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, they do cross-nation badge engineering to this day (and in some cases even within borders-here in Canada the Acura csx/Civic and in NA the Toyota Camry/Lexus ES).

FYI, the Skodas are indeed the exception in the VW fold, they are re-skinned Boras/passats, but they use the previous generation platforms.

Tony · 03-21-2006, 10:56 AM

After reading this entire thread the only benefit that I-Drive seems to offer is the “cleaning up” of the dash. Id’ rather for the interior of my car to resemble a fighter jet than a living room. I’m sorry but without buttons the interior of the car resembles the inside of a coffin. I’ll rather have purposeful panels rather than plain ones. Plain, button-less interiors don’t do it for me. The current BMW interiors are missing that "Wow!" factor (I do like the 7-series interior, go figure) . Just when BMW figured out how to make really cool looking interiors they had to ruin it with the I-Drive.

ed328ci · 03-21-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

After reading this entire thread the only benefit that I-Drive seems to offer is the “cleaning up” of the dash. Id’ rather for the interior of my car to resemble a fighter jet than a living room...

Funny that you mentioned fighter jets. Looking at pictures of the multi-function displays in fighter cockpits, one will see buttons lined up around the each screen. Why? Because in combat, going through nested menus to get to the function you need, means that you will either go home in a CSAR helicopter, or in a box.

Ed

LEDZEP · 03-21-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony

After reading this entire thread the only benefit that I-Drive seems to offer is the “cleaning up” of the dash. Id’ rather for the interior of my car to resemble a fighter jet than a living room. I’m sorry but without buttons the interior of the car resembles the inside of a coffin. I’ll rather have purposeful panels rather than plain ones. Plain, button-less interiors don’t do it for me. The current BMW interiors are missing that "Wow!" factor (I do like the 7-series interior, go figure) . Just when BMW figured out how to make really cool looking interiors they had to ruin it with the I-Drive.

Valid opinion. I love gadgets and buttons and things that go "bing". But that said, I have really come to appreciate the smooth clean interior of the E90. Another thing to consider is the ability to update and upgrade. The menu system controlled by a single knob and two buttons provides the ability to update the system and add new functionality. Fixed purpose-built button systems are limited at best when it comes to upgrades. Image if your PC had to have a button on the outside to perform each function. Even if you were able to combine functions in some way there would still be a lot of buttons. Just another angle on it.

aarnt · 03-22-2006, 01:03 AM

Bimmerista, you are right on your case about the iDrive and the cross-badging. I accept that to some iDrive will seem obtrusive, but really, there are many drivers that like it. As I said, both are given the right of choice from BMW, so use it wisely

As for the MFDs in a warplane, have you considered the learning curve they have? Although not a pilot, I had to get trained to them and they are not the best solution either. Pilots configure the MFDs the way they like them before take off, and during flight they make some changes from their stick, because as they say, it is so impractical to look away and try to hit that button while in flight! And I will not comment of the difficulty to press a button while pulling more than one G. I could give you as a reply the HUD (ironically named Heads Up Display), it shows most of the info a pilot instantly needs, and it is controlled by the stick (mainly). iDrive is your HUD, and the shortcuts on your wheel are the buttons of your stick...there you go pilot

I will not go on commercial planes as there are 2 people flying them and the traffic in front is not so close, the resemblance would be to drive alone in Autoban and have the front passenger use the iDrive for you. The MFD with surrounding buttons is the approach of MERC, ask a MERC owner to give you feedback.

As for the platform of Audis, I still cannot accept that a company of that magnitude cannot create its own platforms. I was sure about Skodas, and considering looks, VWs look a lot like AUDIs (A4, A6) and that irritates me for their class. Sorry for the off topic

Kudos!

Bimmerista · 03-22-2006, 09:03 AM

Hello AArnt,

I will agree that I am for choice. Problem is BMW does not give a choice to anyone who wants 5, 6 or 7 series. The new X5 in 2006 (07 model year) will not have a choice either, get I drive whether you like it or not. That is what I regret, because it makes me serioulsy hesitate the purchase of any of those models.

PS off topic- Audi will with the next model designation, have its own chasis for the A4, A6, one that will (finally) permit Audi to have the engine mounted behind the front axle (2008).

All luxury divisions of mass market car manufacturers share a chasis or components in some form or another. In and of itelf it is not a bad thing, unless the execution leaves potential buyers with the feeling that they are in fact getting a pimped up (name the mass market vehicle).

Cheers

aarnt · 03-22-2006, 09:31 AM

Bimmerista, I guess there is nothing we do not agree any more

Your point for the upper series of BMWs was not known to me and although a fan of iDrive, I don't like the idea of not having the choice.

As for AUDIs, this change will catch my attention in the new model

c ya guys!

Compos Mentis · 03-22-2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TD

But there are products like it. Audi's version (MMI) is much more intuitive, doesn't try to do EVERYTHING and is integrated into the interior better as well. MB's version supposedly sucks, although I've never used it (or even been in a recent Mercedes - no interest).

But to say "there is no product out there that is like it" simply isn't true.

Tell me one function gained via iDrive that has any objective value (and that doesn't have a redundant button somewhere else inside the car).

I was trying to rationalize why people don't like it by comparing to products outside the auto world, but yes you are right, there are other products like it. Ipod?

I think it is a good idea to be able to centrally locate many functions into one control. I didn't fine the oil level reading on the stalk for a long time, but neither could I find it in the Idrive menu for awhile. Nav couldn't be done with dedicated buttons.

I really thought Idrive would be great if it had audible feedback so you could make adjustments without looking at the screen. I recall an article years ago that said the tactile feedback in the knob was supposed to be a real help, but the tactile feedback doesn't help, the way it's implemented now. Could just as well be a clicker.
I'm not a hater, just thinking about ways to tweak it.

Discodancingrover · 03-22-2006, 02:05 PM

I think I heard a quote somewher from a person at BMW "If you can't figure out how to use idrive, you shouldn't own a bmw"

Compos Mentis · 03-22-2006, 02:10 PM

I wish I had a dedicated button to manually check the oil level. :mad:

ihavedrivenanm1 · 03-22-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed328ci

Funny that you mentioned fighter jets. Looking at pictures of the multi-function displays in fighter cockpits, one will see buttons lined up around the each screen. Why? Because in combat, going through nested menus to get to the function you need, means that you will either go home in a CSAR helicopter, or in a box.

Ed

Also note that when Southwest and many other airlines order their new Boeing commercial jets they have the flat panel displays reprogrammed to project traditional ROUND gauges with needles rather than bar graphs because research has shown that the brain takes in info and reacts quicker to round gauges than bar graphs along with a lot of good ole buttons...

ed328ci · 03-22-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihavedrivenanm1

Also note that when Southwest and many other airlines order their new Boeing commercial jets they have the flat panel displays reprogrammed to project traditional ROUND gauges

Thanks for the pics. The new Airbus (A380?) has keyboards for both the captain and co-pilot. http://www.militaryfactory.com/cockpits/imgs/a380.jpg Yes, those are keyboard trays.

Most military MFD have buttons lined up around the displays, and "short cut" buttons on the throttle and stick (HOTAS).

F22
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft...2_panel_01.gif
JSF
http://f-19.hp.infoseek.co.jp/jsf/x32-cockpit.jpg
Mirage 2000
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft...0_panel_01.jpg
F15E
http://www.cockpits.nl/images/F15E/view2.jpg
B2
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/aigledefer/I...B2_Cockpit.jpg

There is nothing wrong with replacing traditional gauges with flat panels. In fact, it's a good thing. The problem is how that was implemented in iDrive. iDrive would be better if BMW had mounted 3 "short cut" buttons on the big knob. One skips to Entertainment (Radio band / CD / Aux in), one to Nav, and one to HVAC.

Ed

aarnt · 03-23-2006, 12:50 AM

I agree on the shortcut thing, but an inteligent thought can help you set the buttons on the wheel in a way to simplify the iDrive use, you already have 2 programmable buttons there. Still, I would like a "back" button near the knob.

Greets!

climkt · 03-23-2006, 03:09 AM

i am not a fan of excessive techno car gadgetry, like to keep it simple and basic.
I don't have idrive in my e90 320i, i don't want it, don't miss it and i don't fancy it!

Jongi · 03-23-2006, 09:24 AM

I'm not convinced by the distraction arguement. Only because I have not found the fact that I do a lot of things through the iDrive to be more distracting as opposed to when i did similar things in my Alfa.

aarnt · 03-24-2006, 01:56 AM

Jongi, your sentence is translated in my mind as if you are a fan of iDrive (just checking

)

borahatch · 03-24-2006, 03:13 AM

iDrive is awesome. My sister's first E90 325 didn't have it and I had no previous experience with it. We got a 750il and the iDrive system took me about one day to get used to. My sister recently (today, actually!) got an E90 330 with iDrive and it's crazy simple to operate.

Funny thing, since I learned all the ins and outs on the 7, the sales guy was rather impressed at my iDrive knowledge on the test drive of my sister's 3. I actually showed him a few things LOL.

jmatero · 03-24-2006, 08:14 AM

I think BMW should display the radio station/preset in the computer display between the speedo/tach like Audi. That's the only thing about my car that I'm not happy with.... you have to look DOWN... way down... (if you don't have iDrive) to see the radio display... and that means my eyes are off the road.

03-19-2006, 03:34 PM	#90
N1 Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 272 Posts Drives: BMW 320d M Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	lol without windows the hardware of bmw its not in first place is it not?
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03-21-2006, 01:47 AM	#92
aarnt Private 1 Rep 72 Posts Drives: BMW E90 320i Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Greece iTrader: (0)	I accept that some people don't like the iDrive, it is so reasonable.But to those that believe that some more buttons would be better than iDrive... think of the following. You have a screen close to the wind-screen, that you can blink and take a look to get informed of your position, of the name of the track etc. You also have a turn knob and 2 bottuns in the exact position you palm can rest. This way the time you spend not looking to the windscreen can be minimal. (BMW) You have a screen in the center of your console, and may buttons arround it. in order to make any changes you have to look down to the console (miles away from windscreen) to find the button or look at the screen. (Mercedes) You have a screen near the windscreen, and a knob where your hand palm rests, also some buttons around the knob and some around the screen. In some occasions you will not look away from the windscreen, in some others you will. (Audi) You have some buttons in the console, but no screen and therefore no NAV and no chance of setting up these small details that occasionally will take to the dealer to do so. Obviously you have a maximum of 15 buttons to learn that most you already know so there is not much looking away from the windscreen. (Any car without "human interface" gadgets) There you have it! An analysis of the ergonomics that BMW most possibly have done. I prefer the BMW solution much more than that of the MERC and AUDI. BMW, made the iDrive an option of the 3series because it is supposed to be also a cheap BMW for some, and 2000euros would make a difference. It was for marketing reasons too I admit, but economics sound much better IMO. Some people have it and hate it (not me), some people don't have it and want it. All of us anjoy driving this amazing car. Both sides now admit that it is not so hard to learn, but those who don't want it also don't think that the learning curve is reasonable.. and that is so fair!! Those who want it can have it, those who don't they can leave it out! I can't see why BMW has failed at that, it gave you the choice and you used it! As for the guy that was surprised by what I said about AUDI and VW, didn't you know that Audis are VW in disguise? TT is really a golf modified from Audi, A4 is a Passat (almost not modified at all), A6 is a Jetta.... It is funny how the Skodas look like Audis and VWs, they are all under the VW group of companies Kudos to all!
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03-21-2006, 09:39 AM	#93
Bimmerista Major General 82 Rep 5,732 Posts Drives: superstock Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada iTrader: (0)	AArnt, in NA unless you get Nav, the only thing the Idrive does is drive you crazy trying to figure out how to use your radio. Thankfully I am still capable of dealing with the radio buttons. PS You are off about the Audi VW platforms and simply having platforms shared does not make Audi "disguised" VWs. You want to *itch about bagde engeneering, pick the right company, GM, Ford, Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, they do cross-nation badge engineering to this day (and in some cases even within borders-here in Canada the Acura csx/Civic and in NA the Toyota Camry/Lexus ES). FYI, the Skodas are indeed the exception in the VW fold, they are re-skinned Boras/passats, but they use the previous generation platforms.
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03-21-2006, 10:56 AM	#94
Tony Second Lieutenant 49 Rep 286 Posts Drives: 2018 X3 M40i Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rockland County iTrader: (0)	After reading this entire thread the only benefit that I-Drive seems to offer is the “cleaning up” of the dash. Id’ rather for the interior of my car to resemble a fighter jet than a living room. I’m sorry but without buttons the interior of the car resembles the inside of a coffin. I’ll rather have purposeful panels rather than plain ones. Plain, button-less interiors don’t do it for me. The current BMW interiors are missing that "Wow!" factor (I do like the 7-series interior, go figure) . Just when BMW figured out how to make really cool looking interiors they had to ruin it with the I-Drive.
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03-22-2006, 01:03 AM	#97
aarnt Private 1 Rep 72 Posts Drives: BMW E90 320i Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Greece iTrader: (0)	Bimmerista, you are right on your case about the iDrive and the cross-badging. I accept that to some iDrive will seem obtrusive, but really, there are many drivers that like it. As I said, both are given the right of choice from BMW, so use it wisely As for the MFDs in a warplane, have you considered the learning curve they have? Although not a pilot, I had to get trained to them and they are not the best solution either. Pilots configure the MFDs the way they like them before take off, and during flight they make some changes from their stick, because as they say, it is so impractical to look away and try to hit that button while in flight! And I will not comment of the difficulty to press a button while pulling more than one G. I could give you as a reply the HUD (ironically named Heads Up Display), it shows most of the info a pilot instantly needs, and it is controlled by the stick (mainly). iDrive is your HUD, and the shortcuts on your wheel are the buttons of your stick...there you go pilot I will not go on commercial planes as there are 2 people flying them and the traffic in front is not so close, the resemblance would be to drive alone in Autoban and have the front passenger use the iDrive for you. The MFD with surrounding buttons is the approach of MERC, ask a MERC owner to give you feedback. As for the platform of Audis, I still cannot accept that a company of that magnitude cannot create its own platforms. I was sure about Skodas, and considering looks, VWs look a lot like AUDIs (A4, A6) and that irritates me for their class. Sorry for the off topic Kudos!
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03-22-2006, 09:03 AM	#98
Bimmerista Major General 82 Rep 5,732 Posts Drives: superstock Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada iTrader: (0)	Hello AArnt, I will agree that I am for choice. Problem is BMW does not give a choice to anyone who wants 5, 6 or 7 series. The new X5 in 2006 (07 model year) will not have a choice either, get I drive whether you like it or not. That is what I regret, because it makes me serioulsy hesitate the purchase of any of those models. PS off topic- Audi will with the next model designation, have its own chasis for the A4, A6, one that will (finally) permit Audi to have the engine mounted behind the front axle (2008). All luxury divisions of mass market car manufacturers share a chasis or components in some form or another. In and of itelf it is not a bad thing, unless the execution leaves potential buyers with the feeling that they are in fact getting a pimped up (name the mass market vehicle). Cheers
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03-22-2006, 09:31 AM	#99
aarnt Private 1 Rep 72 Posts Drives: BMW E90 320i Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Greece iTrader: (0)	Bimmerista, I guess there is nothing we do not agree any more Your point for the upper series of BMWs was not known to me and although a fan of iDrive, I don't like the idea of not having the choice. As for AUDIs, this change will catch my attention in the new model c ya guys!
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03-22-2006, 02:05 PM	#101
Discodancingrover F=MA? 17 Rep 157 Posts Drives: 2006 325xi Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Indianapolis,IN iTrader: (1)	I think I heard a quote somewher from a person at BMW "If you can't figure out how to use idrive, you shouldn't own a bmw"
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03-22-2006, 02:10 PM	#102
Compos Mentis Second Lieutenant 6 Rep 230 Posts Drives: Arctic 330xi Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (0)	I wish I had a dedicated button to manually check the oil level. :mad: __________________ *Compos Mentis* ----------------- 2006 330xi Arctic, black leather, aluminum. 18000 miles...
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03-23-2006, 12:50 AM	#105
aarnt Private 1 Rep 72 Posts Drives: BMW E90 320i Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Greece iTrader: (0)	I agree on the shortcut thing, but an inteligent thought can help you set the buttons on the wheel in a way to simplify the iDrive use, you already have 2 programmable buttons there. Still, I would like a "back" button near the knob. Greets!
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03-23-2006, 03:09 AM	#106
climkt Bimmer Manual all the way 66 Rep 1,811 Posts Drives: e90 320i manual Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: singapore iTrader: (0)	i am not a fan of excessive techno car gadgetry, like to keep it simple and basic. I don't have idrive in my e90 320i, i don't want it, don't miss it and i don't fancy it!
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03-23-2006, 09:24 AM	#107
Jongi Private First Class 6 Rep 109 Posts Drives: 320i w/Exclusive Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa iTrader: (0)	I'm not convinced by the distraction arguement. Only because I have not found the fact that I do a lot of things through the iDrive to be more distracting as opposed to when i did similar things in my Alfa.
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03-24-2006, 01:56 AM	#108
aarnt Private 1 Rep 72 Posts Drives: BMW E90 320i Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Greece iTrader: (0)	Jongi, your sentence is translated in my mind as if you are a fan of iDrive (just checking )
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03-24-2006, 03:13 AM	#109
borahatch Enlisted Member 4 Rep 32 Posts Drives: Infiniti G35 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Highland, CA iTrader: (0)	iDrive is awesome. My sister's first E90 325 didn't have it and I had no previous experience with it. We got a 750il and the iDrive system took me about one day to get used to. My sister recently (today, actually!) got an E90 330 with iDrive and it's crazy simple to operate. Funny thing, since I learned all the ins and outs on the 7, the sales guy was rather impressed at my iDrive knowledge on the test drive of my sister's 3. I actually showed him a few things LOL. __________________ My car: '03.5 Laser Red 6MT Coupe Premium/Nav/Aero/Splash Guards Fog lights Tint 20" Axis Mods/Nitto 555 245/35 front 275/30 rear Injen CAI DVD player Savv mirror with 5 inch LCD monitor 5.8 inch Phoenix Gold headrest monitors White LED interior bulbs White LED lic plate bulbs LED rear turn signals Sidemarker blinker mod w/ Amber LED More to come! My G Myspace Sister's car: 2006 Monaco Blue 330i, Sport, Premium, iDrive, Steptronic , Active Steering, Comfort Access, Chrome stlye: 162, Tint
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03-24-2006, 08:14 AM	#110
jmatero Private First Class 41 Rep 124 Posts Drives: 2024 iX xDrive50 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Jose, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW iX xDRIVE50 [0.00]	I think BMW should display the radio station/preset in the computer display between the speedo/tach like Audi. That's the only thing about my car that I'm not happy with.... you have to look DOWN... way down... (if you don't have iDrive) to see the radio display... and that means my eyes are off the road.
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