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      09-11-2017, 10:07 PM   #1
rowsdower
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AA vs BPC throttle response

I have a stock (save for CDV delete) 2011 128i Sport 6MT N51. It's my DD but sees track time occasionally.

There are numerous threads about the different tunes available for these cars. However, most threads seem focused on power and torque curves. What I am interested in is improving throttle response. Is there a significant difference in throttle response and overall drivability between the AA and BPC tunes?
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      09-12-2017, 07:46 AM   #2
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I doubt it - from what I remember AA and BPC don't alter throttle response.

So far, BPC offers more low end torque, and that's what really effects drivability
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      09-12-2017, 01:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
I doubt it - from what I remember AA and BPC don't alter throttle response.

So far, BPC offers more low end torque, and that's what really effects drivability
No comparison from me other than I'm happy with my AA tune + header and exhaust. Very snappy and revs all the way cleanly.
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      09-13-2017, 02:12 AM   #4
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If you're happy, you're happy.

Depending on when you got your tune, AA revised theirs to be closer to BPC - ask them to send it to you.

If anyone else wants to push the envelope to the max like me, BPC is the way to go.
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      09-27-2017, 09:32 AM   #5
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Thanks for your feedback everyone. I am considering the AA header plus BPC tune, but concerned about passing inspection in Texas. I live in a Dallas suburb so I am subject to an OBDII test. From what I've read on the Texas website (links below), one system can be "Not Ready" and still pass. If I install the AA catless header, and the BPC tune allows it to run without throwing a CEL, I think I should be good to go. Just wondering if anyone in Texas near Dallas or Houston (i.e. subject to these additional restrictions) has a similar setup and can confirm whether it passes?

https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/vi/con...ionTesting.htm

https://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/vi/Misc/faq/faq_obdii.htm
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      09-27-2017, 05:59 PM   #6
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Do any of you know what the price difference of these tunes are? (the flash itself and installation).
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      10-17-2017, 10:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTwenty8i View Post
Do any of you know what the price difference of these tunes are? (the flash itself and installation).
AA tune is $450-550 if you ship them the ECU or have it flashed at local authorized retail shop. If you want to get it done yourself, then you need to get Simon 2 tool which is about $150 for total of $600.

BPC tune is $650 and it does come with their flashing device. I am sure they could do it cheaper if you ship them ECU or get it done at their shop.
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      10-18-2017, 05:04 PM   #8
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if you are on a budget, watch our for tunes on sale from black friday till the end of the year. Last year AA had a good discount on the tune in December.
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      10-19-2017, 09:26 AM   #9
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2008 BMW 128i  [5.00]
Install a 3.73 diff, it'll be snappy
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      10-19-2017, 10:42 AM   #10
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Install a 3.73 diff, it'll be snappy
I've been wanting to do an LSD 3.73 swap for the past few years. Within the next few months, I plan on doing coilovers and either the LSD with the higher ratio or the BPC tune. How do you like the 3.73 so far?
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      10-19-2017, 10:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmatageShanks View Post
I've been wanting to do an LSD 3.73 swap for the past few years. Within the next few months, I plan on doing coilovers and either the LSD with the higher ratio or the BPC tune. How do you like the 3.73 so far?
Love it, 100% worth it. Hwy driving is just fine too, my mileage is barely affected.

If you just wanna test it out, you can buy a used open 3.73 diff for under $100 shipped off car-part.
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      10-19-2017, 03:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmatageShanks View Post
I've been wanting to do an LSD 3.73 swap for the past few years. Within the next few months, I plan on doing coilovers and either the LSD with the higher ratio or the BPC tune. How do you like the 3.73 so far?
Test it first before you spend the $ for the lsd install. I have the AA tune and 3.73 with out lsd. Even though its wonderful for the track, it tends to be a bit high strung for the highway IMHO. I will be compromising and going to 3.64 w/lsd if I decide to get it done. I will be putting the 3.23 back in for the spring next year till the LSD bug pops in m head, too much highway for me and too many revs. my 2cents
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      10-19-2017, 05:28 PM   #13
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The easiest way to test out if you can live with it or not is to drive your typical highway cruising speed in 5th gear and pretend you can't upshift anymore, because that's about where your 6th gear will be with a 3.73. Different people will have different tolerances, and do a different mix of driving (backroads, freeway, etc.), so you can't really go by any of our opinions, necessarily.

I personally think a 3.73 LSD was made for this car, but then I do very little freeway driving these days - although even when I do, I find I'm okay with the revs (and so is this engine). If the 5th gear test chatters your teeth too much, you might find the 3.64 (or even a 3.46, if you want to go really conservative) more your speed. It's a tricky thing, though - a lot of people will warn you about going too extreme, but it's also possible to be disappointed with too conservative a change. I will say that I heard from a lot of people that 3.73 was too much, so much so that I was a little regretful about it, but once I got it installed I was almost underwhelmed with the change. I mean, it was immediately noticeable, but it hardly rendered the car un-driveable, lol. Oh, one more thing - my gear ratio choice was somewhat influenced by autocross rules, which required me to choose a ratio that was actually offered on the chassis from the factory - so that limited me to the stock 3.23 ratio, or the 3.73 ratio from the automatic cars. So the choice was kind of made for me, but I'm glad with the way it turned out.

One thing the 5th gear test won't tell you is how the car will change at the bottom end. As you know, 1st gear is very short, even with the 3.23 ring and pinion. It's still short, but it's not unusable. I was sort of surprised by that. The shift points come earlier, of course, so you'll find yourself shifting a bit more even in lower speed driving. I could see how that might be annoying, but I got used to it pretty quickly, and didn't even notice it after a week or two.

Oh, and if you're choosing between a tune and an LSD with the shorter gearset, choose the latter. Unless you're doing the intake manifold and headers as well. Without those, the tune is going to be worthless, and with them it's more or less required.

Good luck!
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      10-30-2017, 12:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
Oh, and if you're choosing between a tune and an LSD with the shorter gearset, choose the latter. Unless you're doing the intake manifold and headers as well. Without those, the tune is going to be worthless, and with them it's more or less required.

Good luck!
Thanks for the input! My question is, I already have the 3-stage intake manifold from the factory with the N51. What would you recommend in my case?
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      10-30-2017, 12:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmatageShanks View Post
Thanks for the input! My question is, I already have the 3-stage intake manifold from the factory with the N51. What would you recommend in my case?
Aha - that's a good point. You stand to gain more from a simple tune than an N52. Thing is a tune is like $700 or so, a new diff is going to be quite a bit north of that so bang for buck I'd say you'd get better results from the tune in your case. But it really depends, the gearing change can be had for very cheap WITHOUT an LSD as some have said. You can buy a used good condition 3.73 diff for a few hundred, and if you combined that with a tune you'd have significantly better response and power compared to stock (assuming you're good with the gearing at 3.73). Now it won't be an LSD, but our cars don't quite have enough power I say to really use an LSD in most cases so people generally leave the LSD as one of the last things they do...
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      10-30-2017, 02:59 PM   #16
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but our cars don't quite have enough power I say to really use an LSD in most cases

I respectfully disagree. IMHO, our cars have plenty of power to make use of an LSD. Just hold the right pedal down longer and shift later!
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      10-30-2017, 06:09 PM   #17
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I respectfully disagree. IMHO, our cars have plenty of power to make use of an LSD. Just hold the right pedal down longer and shift later!
Hehe - I'll give you that. Then again you can feel it coming out of your driveway, that's impressive on its own!! (I remember your quote when you first got your LSD).

I happened to luck out on a fantastic deal for an MFactory helical in a stock pumpkin, local to me, back in Feb of this year so I jumped on it. Can definitely feel the difference in the wet and/or snowy conditions, didn't have enough track seat time prior to the upgrade to properly compare before and after in the dry. I do want to have the E-diff coded out as I feel it interferes, is that something you have done on yours?

OP: Sorry to hijack the thread somewhat...this is only relevant now to the diff side of things.

Last edited by asbrr; 10-30-2017 at 06:10 PM. Reason: spelling & a word
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      10-30-2017, 07:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suprgnat View Post
I respectfully disagree. IMHO, our cars have plenty of power to make use of an LSD. Just hold the right pedal down longer and shift later!
Yep agreed, lsd makes a world of DIFFerence. I was loosing out at Deals Gap with inside wheel spinning while driving 5/10ths. The track is a bigger issue. LSD in our cars is need with or without tunes
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      10-30-2017, 07:50 PM   #19
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Tons of cars in the 80's came with mechanical diffs and made less power than ours. It's something that really should be standard on any sporting RWD car. But manufacturers want to cut costs and buyers want no-maintenance appliances, so we get a crappy electronic substitute, and then told it's better than the real thing.
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      10-30-2017, 07:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asbrr View Post
Hehe - I'll give you that. Then again you can feel it coming out of your driveway, that's impressive on its own!! (I remember your quote when you first got your LSD).

I happened to luck out on a fantastic deal for an MFactory helical in a stock pumpkin, local to me, back in Feb of this year so I jumped on it. Can definitely feel the difference in the wet and/or snowy conditions, didn't have enough track seat time prior to the upgrade to properly compare before and after in the dry. I do want to have the E-diff coded out as I feel it interferes, is that something you have done on yours?

OP: Sorry to hijack the thread somewhat...this is only relevant now to the diff side of things.
I think that the fact that I have a clutch-type LSD with a semi-aggressive accel ramp might have something to do with it, too.
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      10-30-2017, 08:00 PM   #21
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I do want to have the E-diff coded out as I feel it interferes, is that something you have done on yours?
No, but I want to do that and a few other things. I'm a DIY kind of person and I have all the software and hardware I need to do it, but I have no experience dealing with automobile computers and no mentor to hold my hand. I'm going to have to be really bored one day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by asbrr View Post
OP: Sorry to hijack the thread somewhat...this is only relevant now to the diff side of things.
+1
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      10-30-2017, 08:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixracer View Post
Yep agreed, lsd makes a world of DIFFerence. I was loosing out at Deals Gap with inside wheel spinning while driving 5/10ths. The track is a bigger issue. LSD in our cars is need with or without tunes
My inside wheels still spins, but now it's trying to keep up with the outside wheel!

(I see what you did there )
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