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11-17-2007, 07:54 PM | #354 |
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11-18-2007, 09:23 AM | #355 | |
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I think the perceived premium for the 1 is going towards the add on bits like the M body kit. Remember how expensive the ZHP packaged 330i was compared to a standard issue? All for a couple more HP and bling? |
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11-18-2007, 09:47 AM | #356 | |
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Plus the 135i has the fancy Brembo brakes. Wonder how much those would cost if they were optional on the 335i? At least a grand? So the price difference, for me, is actually $6,000. |
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11-18-2007, 05:06 PM | #357 | |
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ZHP Performance Package includes: · Engine mods (new camshafts, electronics, & lighter flywheel) for 10HP & 8 ft/lb of torque increase & 6800 max RPM (from 6500). · 6 speed short throw shifter · 3.07:1 Final drive ratio (instead of 2.91:1) · Max Speed Limiter set to 155 mph (instead of 128) · M suspension which provided a more neutral balance · Lower ride height by 15 mm (.6 inches) utilizing shorter auxiliary springs -.5 degrees of camber · Quicker steering ratio · Firmer springs (front +6%, rear +8%) · Firmer shocks (Jounce: front +50%, rear +20%), (Rebound: front +35%, rear -8%) · Larger diameter anti-roll bars: 23.5 mm front (v. 23.0), 18.5 mm rear (v. 18.0) · More rigid forward bushings · BMW M exterior trim elements (front & rear fascia, side sills, & trunk lid spoiler) · Special exterior trim: Anthracite (charcoal) headlight & foglight surrounds, High-Gloss · Shadowline (black gloss) trim · Larger diameter stainless steel dual exhaust outlets · Extra thick Alcantra steering wheel · Sport Seats · Alcantra & Cloth upholstry to replace leatherette and standard trim · Choice of package specific "Black Cube" or "Silver Cube" aluminum trim · Anthracite headliner · Red needles on the instrument cluster · Unique 18" Wheels (style 135M), 18x8.0" front, 18x8.5" rear · Wider Tires: 225/40ZR-18 in front and 255/35ZR-18 in the rear. Frankly at the time, if they had offered SMG on the ZHP option I would have gotten it instead of the M3. And before it looks like we’re entirely off topic here; the 135i with the Brembos, the M Body kit, the 18’s etc. is a BMW with ZHP like package already installed but this time they used the old hot rodders trick to develop significant power gains. Instead of tuning a smaller engine (which if the Tii rumors are true will have an intricate (read expensive) Turbo 4 banger along the lines of the E30 M3 but turbo charged), they dropped in the equivalent of a V8 (like MB did in my C55) with the N54 for big torque and power without any additional tuning expense. I guess if I was still selling BMW’s I’d position the 135I as 90% of am E92 M3 for about 35% less money. If someone wants to do the math their way and argue about the percentages, be my guest, I was an Art Major. |
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11-19-2007, 09:55 AM | #358 | |
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huh.. maybe your right, im talking to a rep today but chances are he wont have a clue.. (they tend to know the big pic and no detail) but i thought that this was the case.. :iono: |
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11-19-2007, 11:01 AM | #359 |
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About what I was expecting to pay. I was hoping that it would end up at $35k with my options, but no matter. I'm still on board to pick up my 135i from the showroom in Germany.
I'm glad we're weeding out the people who want cheap power. Go find yourselves a used SRT-4... |
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11-19-2007, 11:42 AM | #360 |
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Drives: e46 330ci, e92 335i, 2008 128i
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no need to feel that bad; i'm not so sure that a 2600lb. civic 5-speed or the 2900lb si. 6-speed is that much less ftd than the 3000+lb. 128, fwd notwithstanding. i wouldn't be looking at the accord coupe however; per the vtec.neters( for what it's worth) the civic blows away the bloated accord as far as ftd is concerned.
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11-19-2007, 12:40 PM | #361 | |
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You're talking about a Direct injection, high compression, motor running 2 turbos, and putting out 100+ hp/L...seems a little more complicated then a 572 Chevy, where it's more like 60-70 hp/L out of the crate, :iono: What's the big deal about a 4 cyl. turbo...just means you'd need probably 15-20+ lbs of boost to get the same power out of it...and that in turn would mean less room for aftermarket tuners, more heat, and shorter engine life(probably). |
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11-19-2007, 03:01 PM | #362 |
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11-19-2007, 03:05 PM | #363 |
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I think most of us are basing this position on two things:
1. The Sport Pack does not include upgraded tires, so what explains the increased speed limit? 2. This post lists the oil cooler as being part of the Sport Pack, and so far everything TheUltimateDriver posted has been 100% accurate. |
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11-19-2007, 03:09 PM | #364 |
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11-20-2007, 12:09 PM | #366 |
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Please stop comparing the 135i or 128i to anything that Honda makes. Hondas are great cars, but can not be compared to BMW. Look at it this way: you either want Front wheel drive or rear wheel drive. The only exception is the S2000. I had a 2004 but I need something with a back seat so I already reserved a 135i.
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11-20-2007, 12:56 PM | #367 | ||
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Everything else we have seen (even coming from BMW themselves) does not mention the oil cooler as part of the ZSP for the 135i, not to mention newer info that would obviously supercede previously released preliminary info. |
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11-21-2007, 02:02 AM | #368 | |
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11-21-2007, 08:16 AM | #369 |
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I think you make valid points, larryn, but then what explains the increased top speed with the Sport Pack?
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11-21-2007, 08:30 AM | #370 | |
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Non-sport seating and chrome trim won't cause a limp-mode scenario, missing oil cooler will. It's been proven, and I would think that BMW doesn't want a repeat of the negative press that the otherwise highly praised 335i got. |
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11-21-2007, 03:27 PM | #371 | |
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Typically it's because the tire spec is higher in the Sport Package cars but it's also just part of how BMW sees their "enthusiasts buyers" not wanting their cars to be limited; especially thse that are tracked. However, the German Manufacturers also have a "Gentlemens Agreement" that cars produced for road use will have a 155 mph top speed. If you go to a tuner they will happily sell you an item that defeats it. |
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11-21-2007, 05:12 PM | #372 | |
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Check out this official document and look at the descriptions of the Sports Packages in the footnotes for the 128i and for the 135i. It's certainly looking like you only get a 155mph limiter on the 135i w/ZSP, and not at all with the 128i w/ZSP. I've driven BMWs w/sports packages for the past 22 years, so I know the history of speed limiters, but it's good to note it here. Btw, the good folks in Stuttgart have been regularly exceeding the handshake agreement in the past few years, and I've heard it's in jeopardy. Also, it wasn't until the 2001 e46 330i and 330Ci w/ZSP that the speed limiter was increased to 155mph. The MY2000 e46 328's didn't have that. |
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11-22-2007, 01:15 AM | #373 | |
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The Speed Limiters are a bit inconsistent in their applications. And, well, how many Gentlemen are there to support "Gentlemen's Agreement" is anyone's guess. I just heard from a colleague at work (in the office furnishings industry) that the Green Party in Germany (which is much more powerful than in the US) is getting a Speed Limit on the entire Autobahn system, beyond the restricted sub-urban and urban areas...anybody out there hear anything like that??? He said it was based on emissions reduction. If it's the true, it could have a negative impact on our beloved German performance car development. Regards and Happy T-Day to all! Bimmernet |
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11-22-2007, 06:39 AM | #374 |
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The speed-limit legislation on the currently unlimited portions of the Autobahn was being discussed and it was as much a 'Global Warming' (CO2 emissions) issue as anything else. The German Chancellor, Andrea Merkel, has poo-poohed the suggestion and she will have the votes in the Bundestag to keep that from becoming law. That's what I have heard.
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