Originally Posted by tl_boy

this thread is still alive? why do you guys care what the SA thinks? I think is SA is being an unreasonable a55, and personally wouldn't give this a second thought.

OP: don't worry man, there are other dealers, screw this guy. Get over it. If you really need some sort of 'closure' on this, forward a copy of this guys correspondence to BMW N.A., and see what they have to think about it.

I got a little silver seal on my Acura papers whenever i'd go for service. it also said, if you rate anything less than 5 out of 5 please call. But guess what, I didn't need to call, becuase my Acura service guy was truly good. If the rating system is so important to these guys, they better start working toward achieving 5 out of 5's and not just expecting it.

I couldn't agree more.

[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by JSpira

Glad you think this is funny and can laugh. I´m sure you will think it funny next time you go to the dealership to get service.

If you go to another dealership for service, I hope you are not counting on a loaner car. 90% of all dealerships only provide these to their own customers.

What you seem to fail to comprehend is that it takes two parties to make a relationship work - and you are bound into a relationship with BMW (and to some extent your selling dealer) for as long as you have your car.

If something were to go really wrong with the car (such as if the entire car were to need replacing, and yes that happens very infrequently), BMW would require you to work with the selling dealer. I´m sure they would welcome you warmly and support your case.

If your in NJ let me know as we give loaners to everyone even if they did not buy the car from us. Its not worth it to piss off a customer that may buy their next car from you.

Originally Posted by JSpira

Glad you think this is funny and can laugh. I´m sure you will think it funny next time you go to the dealership to get service.

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by quincy

I usually enjoy your postings but you really disappointed me on this one.
You must be in bed with BMW AG.Are some people here not using common or what,I mean if bmwexecutive felt like the SA deserved a 4 so be it,their shouldn't be any kind of retaliations.
If 4 out of 5 is bad in Germany it's not in the states.You buy a $ 40k car and gave your SA some 4's and 5's,then get lectured for not knowing out to play the game and that you're a bad person or a liar for not giving the dealer all 5's .
What kind of people think this is okay? Most of BMW buyers aren't on E90post learning the do's and dont's of grading your SA.

I really believe one has to be crazy to vilify someone for giving a sales guy a 4 instead of a 5.Besides it's unethical to demand your customer to give you a 5 instead of a 4,no matter how good the service was.

We run a very succesful trucking company,there is a saying.
If you don't take good care of your customers someone else will.

Sorry to have disappointed you. First of all, he rated his sales person with a 4 or lower, not the SA.

I think you are 100% correct with your saving, "If you don't take good care of your customers someone else will."

BMW´s rating system (which is apparently common to the industry, although I only have BMWs in the garage so I cannot speak from first hand experience) is confusing to say the very least. I too would at first blush think that a 4 is very good. But - as we have learnt - it is not.

However, this all notwithstanding, the reason for my comment was that the OP posted how satisfied he was with his purchase and his dealer several times.

The system is a pass fail system - and he failed the dealer.

In my opinion, a failing grade is rather severe. It´s not like in school, where the dealer can get a better grade in 3 months´time.

I´m not saying it would be "right" for the dealer not to provide decent service even after getting a poor, failing, grade, but what I am saying is that they are definitely unlikely to go out of their way for the customer.

Personally, if I had had such concerns and felt unhappiness towards my CA or dealer, I would have scheduled a conf. call or meeting with the CA and the GM and discussed the problem - before giving a failing grade - so that they would have had time to adddress the problem or do substantial arse-kissing

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by ALPINE6SPD

If your in NJ let me know as we give loaners to everyone even if they did not buy the car from us. Its not worth it to piss off a customer that may buy their next car from you.

I agree that this is a very wise way to do business.

Do you give BMW loaners to all? Just curious.

Maybe I´ll do an article on the service side of the business soon.

[lumbergh]

I haven't seen anyone give less than 5's just to be an ass. I am not sure I agree with the system but a 5 is for excellent and if the guys want 5's they should do 5 star work. Go to the Ritz Carlton you'll see 5 star service. They don't leave any doubt as to how to rate them.

However if I were a car salesman I would spend 95% of my time discussing the survey since that is how I got 95% of my pay. That doesn't really accomplish BMWNA's goal but I would make sure I got my bonus.

If a sales guy explained to me that he needs 5's to get paid I would probably give him 5's unless he really did something bad. I don't think everyone should do that but I am a softy for sales people. It does suprise me that only one time when I bought a car out of ten was I told about the system.

Now if I don't give fives and they give me crappy service thereafter because of that....guess what, it's revenge time for myself also. I can hurt them more than they can hurt me. If they intentionally put grease on my seat because of a low score or screw me around in a meaningful way there will be a big problem. Now I may not get freebies but if I were rating them lower than a 5 I wasn't getting them anyway. Ultimately you will reasonably get what you want if you climb the chain respectfully enough.


Disclosure: I have only given 5's so far even though they deserved 3's and 4's but because I didn't bring it to their attention I gave 5's everytime. I don't think that is the best way to handle it but that is what I have done.

Originally Posted by JSpira

The system is a pass fail system - and he failed the dealer.

Well if it's a pass fail system why is BMWNA grading using a 5 point system.
It is common wisdom in this country to give someone a 4 out of 5 as a passing grade for great service.
BMWNA failed the dealer and the customer in this instance.Also they need to demand BMW dealers to stop harassing paying customers.
Them cheap bastards are making their dealers jump through hoops to collect incentives , some dealers are too dumb to realize it and blame it on the customers.
I don't hear any European BMW owners here complaining about a dealer lecturing them for giving a CA a 4 instead of 5.Why is that?

Yes you're right it's CA not SA,bmwexecutive was referring to I was thinking Sales Associate but that's not a fancy enough expression for a sales guy at BMW.

[getwired]

Ok, I have read most of this guys posts on here and bimmerfest. It is obvious to me that no one could EVER do a good enough job at anything for him and/or his BMW.

Having both sold cars and waited tables in the past, this is the worst kind of customer you can have. The kind that expects the world, and when you bend over backwards and take it up your ^&#@ to deliver it to them, it still isin't good enough and they bad mouth you or don't leave you a tip. I have no doubt that this dealer went above and beyond for him, and he screwed them anyway. I don't blame them for not wanting to do business with him again, and other BMW dealers in the area beware.

[bmwexecutive]

Originally Posted by getwired

Ok, I have read most of this guys posts on here and bimmerfest. It is obvious to me that no one could EVER do a good enough job at anything for him and/or his BMW.

Having both sold cars and waited tables in the past, this is the worst kind of customer you can have. The kind that expects the world, and when you bend over backwards and take it up your ^&#@ to deliver it to them, it still isin't good enough and they bad mouth you or don't leave you a tip. I have no doubt that this dealer went above and beyond for him, and he screwed them anyway. I don't blame them for not wanting to do business with him again, and other BMW dealers in the area beware.

Damn man, you got me all figured out. Maybe I could be like you someday.

All I'm going to say is that your comments couldn't be further from the truth.

[tracerit]

i was thinking, if you give them an HONEST rating, say a few 5s and one or two 4s, and they send you a nasty email like that, anyone else think that the dealer will put your name in a list of "bad survey raters" and give you mediocre service the next time you come in? it's as if the ball is in their court now.

[stressdoc]

Looking at this with the goal of providing positive criticism, how do you all think BMW should run their evaluation system?

[bmwexecutive]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Looking at this with the goal of providing positive criticism, how do you all think BMW should run their evaluation system?

With a yes or no scale.

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Looking at this with the goal of providing positive criticism, how do you all think BMW should run their evaluation system?

Add up all 5's,4's etc turn it into a percentage number rating that's achievable let's say 70% to 80% is a passing score,like they have been doing it at a lot of DMV's.

On a side note.


My CA doesn't even sell BMW's anymore,Billion automotive in Sioux Falls got rid of their BMW dealership and kept the rest of their dealerships.It started to make sense to me now.

MY next car is going to be the Lexus IS350,its design is growing on me besides it's way faster than my 330i and cheaper than the 335i.

[THE JEDI]

Man thats boils down to a fat ass threat...trust me when you take your car in for service they aare gonna screw the pooch big time so get ready...I bet the rating sysyem has something to do with getting hot cars such as M series it's the only thing that makes sense....I bet BMW uses this to see who gets what first and any extra hold back incentives..cause if You gave me all 4 I would be like hell I got something to shoot for....if you gave me 1's somebody is getting the door....I bet thats what its all about..give em what they rate but hey if they call ya and blast ya like that I'd send it right to BMWUSA, and say what the hell is this

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by bmwexecutive

UPDATEWhatever. Time to start looking for a new dealership to buy my M3 Sedan from in 16 months.

I don't think the dealer cares too much if A) they're not gonna make any money off your purchase, and B) you're going to give them low scores on the CSI survey anyway.

The way they see it, they're probably just getting rid of a potential headache - without really losing out on anything.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

Exactly why should they care about you? Are they getting paid to do so?
No. On the contrary they give their hard earned money to buy something
that the company/dealer whose employee you are, makes/provides. And
the job for which you are getting paid for (and indirectly they are paying you
by buying the product) is to sell that at a profit and care for your customer.
Not the other way around.

I'm sorry, you've obviously never worked in any service-related field.

Firstly, when you buy a car, you are paying for just that... a car.

When someone gets a really good deal, like the OP, the dealership does not make much money, if any, on the sale of the car.

Which means, technically, that all the jumping around and hand-waving that they do for you, is done... well... for free. As a favor to you. In addition to the favor of allowing you to purchase a car from them at a discounted price.

The expectation is, then, that you will reward their efforts in making you happy (low-price, and answering emails, phone calls, answering all your questions, etc) by providing them with 5's on the CSI survey... which, let's be honest, is not really that hard to do, and doesn't cost you a penny, but would help supplement in bonuses whatever they lost by selling the car to you below MSRP.

The other way they make money would be cars brought in for service, which none of you pay for EITHER.

I really can't imagine the service at any BMW dealership being truly HORRID, and judging by the email conversations that've been posted in this thread, I think the dealer went above and beyond their required duties to please a customer that, in the end, was not paying/has not paid anyone in that dealership for the services provided to him beyond his hunk of plastic, metal, and rubber.

Sorry, but the truth is, unless you are buying a used car, or paying MSRP for your car, then you really need to have a big pair of balls to claim that you are "paying" anyone at a BMW dealership to be courteous to you.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

You assume that. As you said. you know what they say about assumption.
The devil is in the details with all those e-mails. People shouldn't extrapolate
from those e-mails anything. Especially the "stupidity" or not of the ratings
system. BMW didn't put it in place overnight and without any thinking. And
the same goes for all the car manufacturers.

sc.-

I'm assuming based on the evidence that has been provided.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by quincy

I get what you're saying but how your average consumer is supposed to know that.

I know that I, at least, am not complaining about the average customer.

I'm complaining about the obviously well-informed customer, who makes the dealership jump through hoops, settles only for the lowers price, and in general, is a huge pain in the ass, yet still recieved decent service.

That's the guy who goes home and slams the dealer on the CSI survey, because his every whim was not catered to, as is appropriate for those peasants to do for a God-like-BMW-driving creature such as himself. Those are the assholes we're complaining about.

[SapphireBlackG01]

Originally Posted by JSpira

Glad you think this is funny and can laugh. I´m sure you will think it funny next time you go to the dealership to get service.

If you go to another dealership for service, I hope you are not counting on a loaner car. 90% of all dealerships only provide these to their own customers.

What you seem to fail to comprehend is that it takes two parties to make a relationship work - and you are bound into a relationship with BMW (and to some extent your selling dealer) for as long as you have your car.

If something were to go really wrong with the car (such as if the entire car were to need replacing, and yes that happens very infrequently), BMW would require you to work with the selling dealer. I´m sure they would welcome you warmly and support your case.

+1

[needashower]

Welcome to the "me" generation. Everyone feels entitled to just about everything, entitled to good service, entitled to their bonus, entitled to feeling important. Stand back if you are ever on the short end of the stick with this kind of situation.....you know, where the sales guy sends you an email thinking he was entitled to the bonus. For me, I am entitled to use my delete key on an email sent to me by this sales guy. I guess if it was that important he would have called me on the phone instead of sending me an email.

[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by JSpira

I agree that this is a very wise way to do business.

Do you give BMW loaners to all? Just curious.

Maybe I´ll do an article on the service side of the business soon.

If we have them available then we will.

[shadowcoder]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

I'm assuming based on the evidence that has been provided.

Assumption is the mother of all fuckups. When you assume and jump into
conclusions you make a fool out of yourself because you simply don't have
the whole story neither the other side of the story for that matter.

sc.-