Help me weigh my expectations-- 128i

[jaredmac11]

I daily drove a Lexus IS300 for about 5 years until it was totaled. I enjoyed the car mostly for its road feel and the NA straight 6. *Mostly* reliable, though I did put about an average of $800 annually in to the car for repairs or maintenance. It was a bit of a bore with the auto and eventually felt like just another car for my commute.

Im looking for the spiritual successor of my IS300 and I think I want the 128i. The IS300 was the fastest car Ive driven and it certainly wasnt that fast. I kept it stock and plan to keep the 128i stock (depending on package).

I am not considering the 135i because I want this car to last me as long as I can afford for it to last. And I know the 135i can be reliable, but there are more points of failure. I will not be leasing new, and it likely wont be under warranty long, if at all.

I can DIY most maintenance, though I havent worked on a modern engine. I have a 1978 BMW e21 in the garage and I thought it would be cool to own a more modern BMW that has the same spirit of my 320i, so I'm really jonesing for the 128i. From what I have read, the 128i is mostly 'reliable' but then again, most people havent put on many miles for the car. I have read things like the valve cover gasket, a few odd and end things, nothing eye opening.

So, assuming I can find a 6MT, performance or sport, 128i coupe (which is feeling like a challenge), what would a reasonable expectation on maintenance costs be for a used specimen with maybe 40-80k miles?

I dont expect Toyota reliable, but this car needs to be my daily driver, getting me to work 5 days a week, doing so without paying over $1000 a year on repairs. For once in my life, it would be nice to drive a car that isnt 10-40 years old.. then again, I keep thinking there will be no way for me to afford any modern BMW.

[ulrichd]

I am going on 8 years with my 09 128 and it's been the most reliable car I've ever owned. It's a lightly optioned car (sport package, 6MT and xenons). I am very thorough about preventive maintenance (see below) and I think many people with "troublesome" German experiences think that oil changes are all that's required.

I have made a few changes which to me at least make the car more enjoyable:
- BMW performance exhaust (stock is a bit quiet)
- Koni FSD shocks with Eibach springs (stock is a bit floaty)
- non runflat tires

Good luck.

[jaredmac11]

Sounds good! I've read up on the maintenance schedule and it looks like what you have shown are inline with my expectations.

I think if a good option presents itself, I'll jump on it. May need to have a car shipped however. I feel like Im looking for the 1/1000 BMW.

[Gray_Panther]

The options you are looking are worth the search. The 128i is a reliable car, my parents 1er and mine have 60k miles combined and never a single issue. Not many miles but two cars and no issues is pretty good so far.

[MA128]

I'm on my second 128. Sold the 2009 in 2013 at 75,000 miles to a local BMWCCA member. My 2013 now has 54,000 miles. Both are/were DD into Boston. No problems on either car. @ulrichd has the right idea about maintenance although I think he's gone a little overboard! :-)

As the car accrues miles, it really needs new shocks and stiffer rear subframe bushings (many, many threads) to maintain its composure. Non-RFTs are also important.

There is nothing like these cars. I ordered the 2013 because it was my last chance to get a naturally-aspirated inline six with hydraulic power steering. This car feels very analog and the human-machine connection is wonderful. I doubt that I will ever sell it.

Good luck with your search.

[Hops128i]

So far my 128i has been great (2010 with 71k). Motivated by the high cost of dealers and indy mechanics in my area, this is the first car I've been dedicated to DIY maintenance. It's really not been that bad with the help of the forum.

[Motohip]

123k miles on mine. I'm always replacing something on this damn car.

[jaredmac11]

Originally Posted by Motohip

123k miles on mine. I'm always replacing something on this damn car.

Do you keep track with what you have had to work on?

Originally Posted by Hops128i

So far my 128i has been great (2010 with 71k). Motivated by the high cost of dealers and indy mechanics in my area, this is the first car I've been dedicated to DIY maintenance. It's really not been that bad with the help of the forum.

I've been there... I swore myself I would get cheap, reliable cars after my IS300. Never can do it for long. And my IS300 wasnt even that bad.. Just every year there was that one thing that would cost over $500

[snub-nose 28]

Originally Posted by Gray_Panther

The options you are looking are worth the search. The 128i is a reliable car, my parents 1er and mine have 60k miles combined and never a single issue. Not many miles but two cars and no issues is pretty good so far.

+1

Had mine only since April, at 48k while at 54k today. Love it and keeping thru
armmagedon.

Not much of a sample size admittedly. Based upon experience at this mileage, expect to:
* replace rotors and pads
* replace rft with non rft!
* upgrade shocks, maybe springs
* comprehensive fluids replacement
* clutch delay valve delete if 6mt is your choice
* rear susp subframe bushings M3 upgrade-this is not optional IMHO

That will get you started. There's no free lunch in modern BMW land. Once you go down the rabbit hole, well, it's an unparalled opportunity for that next mod...not to mention but I will, are you ready for $234 smart key?


On a budget? ... wrong vehicle.

[Bimmer-Bob]

I've had my 1er for over 6 years (since new) and think it's a very reliable vehicle. I don't think it's ever been in the shop for a mechanical failure - just maintenance and mods.

That said, I think your budget of <$1000/year is pretty unrealistic. Even assuming you keep the car stock and nothing breaks (which will become increasingly unlikely as the car ages), maintenance alone can add up. At some point you will have to do brakes - pads and rotors can be $700-$800, just for parts. Tires can easily exceed $1000 for a set of four.

Granted, you won't be doing brakes and tires every year, but my point is that even predictable expenses can add up, much more so when you factor in the possibility of unpredictable ones.

Also, in general I think German cars are more fussy about maintenance than Japanese ones, and I feel like when people try to own them on a budget, they tend to neglect maintenance. Then they either end up spending more on repairs, or the car begins a slow decline into beater-hood.

Also, keep in mind that many of us are giving you our impressions of the vehicle at its most reliable point in history. We've owned the car during the factory warranty period (and beyond), but your ownership experience wouldn't even be starting until years after the car's build date. My car has been very well taken care of, and I don't expect it to start falling apart anytime soon - but if I had to guess, I'd say the next 6 years will probably not be as smooth as the past 6 in terms of reliability.

In any case, good luck. I haven't heard about too many of these cars with serious issues. I just think you should go in with both eyes open.

[mackeroni]

When I was growing up, my father went through cars at a frantic pace. He would trade up anytime a possible expensive repair popped up. For example, he bought a 1967 Pontiac LeMans in 1969. When the front end developed a shimmy in 1970, he proclaimed, "Bad suspension. Could be expensive." In spite of my pleading...it was sold immediately, and a new (used) car was purchased. This cycle was repeated every 12-18 months.

My point is this... It is just a car. If you want it, buy it. If you don't like it, get rid of it. Lather, rinse and repeat this cycle as many times as you like. Life will be very interesting and exciting, especially for your teenage son, if you have one.

[Pkaia524]

I have 195,000 on my 08 128i 6Mt. Check my other posts. On one of them I gave a rundown on maintenance intervals and sundry repairs.

[VRG_135]

Your options seem.....slow.

[desertman123]

N52 is bulletproof, just likes to weep a bit of oil (valve cover and OFHG). No big deal, easily DIYable (well, the OFHG is; I'm not gonna lie the valve cover gasket is awful to do, but very doable). Getrag gearbox (if manual) - rock solid. Most parts come from the 3 series, which was in production for a bit before the 1er came along so some quirks were already fixed.

[Gray_Panther]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

I've had my 1er for over 6 years (since new) and think it's a very reliable vehicle. I don't think it's ever been in the shop for a mechanical failure - just maintenance and mods.

That said, I think your budget of <$1000/year is pretty unrealistic. Even assuming you keep the car stock and nothing breaks (which will become increasingly unlikely as the car ages), maintenance alone can add up. At some point you will have to do brakes - pads and rotors can be $700-$800, just for parts. Tires can easily exceed $1000 for a set of four.

Granted, you won't be doing brakes and tires every year, but my point is that even predictable expenses can add up, much more so when you factor in the possibility of unpredictable ones.

Also, in general I think German cars are more fussy about maintenance than Japanese ones, and I feel like when people try to own them on a budget, they tend to neglect maintenance. Then they either end up spending more on repairs, or the car begins a slow decline into beater-hood.

Also, keep in mind that many of us are giving you our impressions of the vehicle at its most reliable point in history. We've owned the car during the factory warranty period (and beyond), but your ownership experience wouldn't even be starting until years after the car's build date. My car has been very well taken care of, and I don't expect it to start falling apart anytime soon - but if I had to guess, I'd say the next 6 years will probably not be as smooth as the past 6 in terms of reliability.

In any case, good luck. I haven't heard about too many of these cars with serious issues. I just think you should go in with both eyes open.

I am going to have to totally disagree. I got a set of four hankook tires for 350 shipped from tire rack. Brakes and rotors are less than 500$. 1000$ a year realistic and a little much except when you have to perform the oil gasket change around 100k miles.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by Gray_Panther

I am going to have to totally disagree. I got a set of four hankook tires for 350 shipped from tire rack. Brakes and rotors are less than 500$. 1000$ a year realistic and a little much except when you have to perform the oil gasket change around 100k miles.

Well, I assume you're not getting OE pads and rotors for that price, right? And I don't even understand how you're getting tires at $70/ea. that are worth a $**t.

I mean, yeah, you can always find cheap parts out there, if you're willing to go with inferior parts. I think several years of maintaining a car like this take a toll - plenty of cars on the used market that are shells of their former selves, passed around from owner to owner, each one successively less capable of affording to properly maintain their purchase, which is now held together with no-name budget parts from Rock Auto, and pieces of coat hangar.

I'm not saying there aren't decent OEM-quality parts out there for a better price than OE BMW parts, but it's a slippery slope, because you can definitely go too cheap and end up with crappy parts.

As far as tires, I've heard the Hankooks are decent, and a good "value," but I'm too much of a tire snob to put budget tires on my BMW (the $77 Hankooks are ranked 9 out of 17 in their performance category). To each their own, but I just don't get buying an expensive German car and then pinching pennies on maintenance, especially when it comes to crucial components like brakes and tires.

Anyway, what I think I meant to say originally was that, while some years you will be able to spend <$1000/year maintaining a 128i, there are going to be times approaching when that's just not true. Most examples are approaching 5-10 years old, and things like water pumps, valve cover gaskets, & OFHGs are going to fail. Throw in random other gizmos (sunroof, window regulators) and it's easy to see how approaching ownership with such a strict maintenance budget seems unrealistic. And we haven'y even talked about some of the big-ticket repairs that might pop up on an older car.

[desertman123]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Well, I assume you're not getting OE pads and rotors for that price, right? And I don't even understand how you're getting tires at $70/ea. that are worth a $**t.

I mean, yeah, you can always find cheap parts out there, if you're willing to go with inferior parts. I think several years of maintaining a car like this take a toll - plenty of cars on the used market that are shells of their former selves, passed around from owner to owner, each one successively less capable of affording to properly maintain their purchase, which is now held together with no-name budget parts from Rock Auto, and pieces of coat hangar.

I'm not saying there aren't decent OEM-quality parts out there for a better price than OE BMW parts, but it's a slippery slope, because you can definitely go too cheap and end up with crappy parts.

As far as tires, I've heard the Hankooks are decent, and a good "value," but I'm too much of a tire snob to put budget tires on my BMW (the $77 Hankooks are ranked 9 out of 17 in their performance category). To each their own, but I just don't get buying an expensive German car and then pinching pennies on maintenance, especially when it comes to crucial components like brakes and tires.

Anyway, what I think I meant to say originally was that, while some years you will be able to spend <$1000/year maintaining a 128i, there are going to be times approaching when that's just not true. Most examples are approaching 5-10 years old, and things like water pumps, valve cover gaskets, & OFHGs are going to fail. Throw in random other gizmos (sunroof, window regulators) and it's easy to see how approaching ownership with such a strict maintenance budget seems unrealistic. And we haven'y even talked about some of the big-ticket repairs that might pop up on an older car.

Yeah I don't know about those $70 Hankooks. My Sumitomos were about the same price and I really don't like them (damn PO!). Dry is pretty good, I haven't hit the limits, but wet performance is abysmal, any moderate acceleration lights up the traction control right away.

But yeah I agree, you gotta be careful. Example: On Rockauto I could've bought a set of rear rotors for ~$70. Great price, but you get what you pay for. I wasn't about to warp a rotor just trying to bed them in, but I also wasn't about to pay out the ass for all OEM. I don't autoX or track, and the extent of my spirited driving is highway onramp pulls (no twisties here in FL). I opted for Centric 'premium' fronts and OE style Zimmerman rears. Ended up costing me about $250-300 after all said and done. That's not including the brake pads though (and/or new fluid), if you get quality ones you can expect to tack another what, $150-300? onto the cost (thankfully the dealer I bought it from did these for free). And then I installed them myself (that saves another few hundred).

So there's two sides. If you're able to work on it yourself, and you know the difference between a part that is cheap vs. a part that's a great value (highest quality at the lowest price) then you don't really have to worry about much. But if you take it to the dealer and tell em "do a brake job" you might blow your top once you see the bill. But I'm preaching to the choir here .

And I'm just talking about maintenance here. Repairs are another story.

Valve cover gasket leaking? Like $150 in parts (gaskets and spark plug tubes), $400 in labor (I've never taken my BMW to a shop for repairs, dunno if this is even an accurate number lol). Not terrible. WHOOPS. Mechanic called, turns out the gasket is fine for the most part, but the cover itself is cracked! There's another $500. Maybe another $50 for that PCV hose that always breaks.

Its a BMW so costs can add up realllll quick.

[Stupenal]

I had an 09 128i 6spd sport package for a little over a year. Now I am e92 328i.

In between I has an 01 is300 for half a year before my friend borrowed the car and totaled it. Before he did that, i had the pleasure of doing the timing belt/water pump, plus valve cover gasket, camshaft seals, plugs, and some other oil seal on the is300. If you can work on the 2jz, the n52 is about the same but with just more junk in the way and the whole electronic coding part. I did find that the 2jz had an incredible amount of plastic bits that loves to break when changing the valve cover, but then found the n52 to have even more crap to remove the valve cover. At least the n52 has a timing chain and the water pump can be replaced without removing the front of the engine.


I'll give my impression on the driving dynamics between the two cars. The is300 drives very easily and handles decently, but the 128 will basically do everything at one step better. The biggest difference is the steering will be heavier and have greater feel to the road in the 128. I felt that the 2jz had decent torque but acceleration was not awe inspiring. They're both i6 motors so the smoothness will be similar.

Interior quality may actually go to the is300. The interior in the e82 is not exactly luxurious and I remember my center armrest would squeak all the time. The is300 has a somewhat dated interior look but mine was near mint for a 15 year old car.

At the end of the day the 128 will be a nice step up and have modern features while still giving a great driving experience. The is300 was one of those timeless gems that embodied the classic "luxury sports sedan" look and drive. The 128 will be more fun but if you found the is300 to be boring, you may be slightly disappointed with the 128. To each their own.

[Tommm]

From OPs profile.
Last Activity: 08-04-2016 02:58 PM
Save your fingers, let the thread die. He probably bought a real sports car, a Civic with a spoiler.

[Gray_Panther]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Well, I assume you're not getting OE pads and rotors for that price, right? And I don't even understand how you're getting tires at $70/ea. that are worth a $**t.

I mean, yeah, you can always find cheap parts out there, if you're willing to go with inferior parts. I think several years of maintaining a car like this take a toll - plenty of cars on the used market that are shells of their former selves, passed around from owner to owner, each one successively less capable of affording to properly maintain their purchase, which is now held together with no-name budget parts from Rock Auto, and pieces of coat hangar.

I'm not saying there aren't decent OEM-quality parts out there for a better price than OE BMW parts, but it's a slippery slope, because you can definitely go too cheap and end up with crappy parts.

As far as tires, I've heard the Hankooks are decent, and a good "value," but I'm too much of a tire snob to put budget tires on my BMW (the $77 Hankooks are ranked 9 out of 17 in their performance category). To each their own, but I just don't get buying an expensive German car and then pinching pennies on maintenance, especially when it comes to crucial components like brakes and tires.

Anyway, what I think I meant to say originally was that, while some years you will be able to spend <$1000/year maintaining a 128i, there are going to be times approaching when that's just not true. Most examples are approaching 5-10 years old, and things like water pumps, valve cover gaskets, & OFHGs are going to fail. Throw in random other gizmos (sunroof, window regulators) and it's easy to see how approaching ownership with such a strict maintenance budget seems unrealistic. And we haven'y even talked about some of the big-ticket repairs that might pop up on an older car.

I for one love the way my tires perform and bob I am not pinching pennies when it comes to tires and brakes. The tires were on sale with a rebate and the brakes aren't cheap China trash. They are actually BMW components that you can get discounted.
I like having nice things, but I also like to save when I can.
Thank you and please refrain from posting your superiority over other members because you like to pay full price.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by Gray_Panther

I for one love the way my tires perform and bob I am not pinching pennies when it comes to tires and brakes. The tires were on sale with a rebate and the brakes aren't cheap China trash. They are actually BMW components that you can get discounted.
I like having nice things, but I also like to save when I can.
Thank you and please refrain from posting your superiority over other members because you like to pay full price.

I never said I was superior, and of course I avoid paying full price as much as possible. But, oftentimes in life you get what you pay for, and that's why I cautioned against going "too cheap" with parts. I didn't say that you had done so, as I admitted the Hankooks are generally well-regarded (for a value brand) and I had no idea what brand of brake pads and rotors you bought (BMW parts for <$500 sounds awfully suspicious). Anyway, if you aren't guilty of buying cheap junk parts, you had no cause to be offended by what I was saying, so I'm sort of confused..

[sixburgh]

This thread is great. Thanks for all the posts.