Dinan Exhaust Black Tips - Finish & Workmanship - or lack thereof

[davemohan]

UPDATE 7/9/09: See post #21 for the end result of this issue, Dinan's newer exhausts are produced with a laser
cut edge that looks much better. They say they are improving the coating process as well.

A question or two for any of you who have the Dinan exhaust with the black tips. I bought mine and had it installed
about a month ago and want to see if anyone else is having similar experiences.

First, as seen in the photo, the edges of the tips look a little like they were cut with a hack saw, then sprayed without
sanding. The edges are pretty rough, and there are fairly deep nicks along them, in some cases letting bare metal shine
through. Is this what you guys are seeing?

One note, and this leads to the second issue: I didn't notice the metal shining through at first (not saying it wasn't there,
but I hadn't looked up close), but I did when I was washing the car and noticed the black coating flaking off the inside of
one of the tips. Touched it and more fell off. And no, it isn't carbon, there's bare metal underneath. (Hard to see in the
photo due to lighting, but look on the outer side of the outer tip.)

So anybody else had the coating flake off, inside or outside of the tips?

I'm hoping to get some opinions today because the replacement exhaust came in to the dealer Friday and I have an
appointment to have it installed Monday. (I was travelling and didn't see the email until today.) Problem is that the SA
checked the new one and says that while there is no flaking (yet) and the edge looks better, the edge is still "a bit
rough". I got some photos from him, but not clear enough to make a call, and I was planning to leave about 7:00 am
Monday to make the 3 hour trip to the dealer.

**EDIT: I cancelled the install to get a better idea whether or not I will be able to get a decent looking muffler out of
this. Hoping for input here, and I'll be talking to Dinan people as well.**

So, I'm trying to decide whether to make the drive or start trying to get a refund. You expect better from a $1000
muffler, and you expect better from Dinan. So what do you all think? Do your tips look well made, or should I bail?

[BSM 135i]

wow...have you hit up Dinan about this?

[davemohan]

Originally Posted by BSM 135i

wow...have you hit up Dinan about this?

Yeah, as I said, the replacement is at the dealer waiting to be installed. Problem is that, from the SA's description, it may not be much better on the edge finish. That's why I'm trying to find out if they are all like this.

[davemohan]

An update, and a bump to try to get some input from others who have the Dinan exhaust.

I just spoke with the SA about the replacement exhaust Dinan sent. He is going to try to get some good photos to me, but based on his description the tips are again cut pretty rough, with some gouges. There also appears to be a slight pipe cutting lip in a couple of places.

I have put off a decision (and the install) for a couple of days. If you own a Dinan Exhaust with black tips, please let me know how yours looks. Do they all look like garage assembled crap, or am I at the far end of the bell curve getting 2 bad ones?

Below is a better photo of the flaked coating inside one of the tips. Anyone else seeing anything like this?

[Ruffan]

This is crazy. I've had mine on for a few months now, and they look fine. The big BUT is that I actually had Dinan send out a second exhaust to me because the first one I got had marks all over the edges of the tips and looked like it wasn't cut that well. My dealer told me about it when it came in and advised me not to install it, and to have Dinan ship another one. I was pretty amazed that they would ship something that had clear defects. The weird thing was that the dents on the tips were ceramic coated, so they clearly were beaten up before the coating process.

My current set of tips looks fine I think. I'll have to take a closer look. Below is the only pic I have of my tips. The tips are still not perfect, but they are better than the first one they shipped to me. I would absolutely call Dinan. They have been great in how they've dealt with me, and they admitted that they were using a new vendor for the coating process, and that quality control wasn't where they wanted it to be as of yet. See if they've made any changes, and let them know that you know it's not a one-time issue. They should be helpful.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by davemohan

A question or two for any of you who have the Dinan exhaust with the black tips. I bought mine and had it installed
about a month ago and want to see if anyone else is having similar experiences.

First, as seen in the photo, the edges of the tips look a little like they were cut with a hack saw, then sprayed without
sanding. The edges are pretty rough, and there are fairly deep nicks along them, in some cases letting bare metal shine
through. Is this what you guys are seeing?

One note, and this leads to the second issue: I didn't notice the metal shining through at first (not saying it wasn't there,
but I hadn't looked up close), but I did when I was washing the car and noticed the black coating flaking off the inside of
one of the tips. Touched it and more fell off. And no, it isn't carbon, there's bare metal underneath. (Hard to see in the
photo due to lighting, but look on the outer side of the outer tip.)

So anybody else had the coating flake off, inside or outside of the tips?

I'm hoping to get some opinions today because the replacement exhaust came in to the dealer Friday and I have an
appointment to have it installed Monday. (I was travelling and didn't see the email until today.) Problem is that the SA
checked the new one and says that while there is no flaking (yet) and the edge looks better, the edge is still "a bit
rough". I got some photos from him, but not clear enough to make a call, and I was planning to leave about 7:00 am
Monday to make the 3 hour trip to the dealer.

**EDIT: I cancelled the install to get a better idea whether or not I will be able to get a decent looking muffler out of
this. Hoping for input here, and I'll be talking to Dinan people as well.**

Just a rant, but I have a '99 neon R/T that is the family junker these days. It has a DynoMax cat back that I paid about
$200 for in late '99. Looking at it side by side with the Dinan I have now, the 10 year old Dynomax welds are cleaner and
the finish of the "tips" (bare pipes) is better.

So, I'm trying to decide whether to make the drive or start trying to get a refund. You expect better from a $1000
muffler, and you expect better from Dinan. So what do you all think? Do your tips look well made, or should I bail?

Yes, you could finish them yourself and have them sprayed better, BUT, why bother. Those look AWFUL for the kind of money you spent.

I agree they look something someone put together in a garage, and that someone isn't so good at it. Man, quite disappointing.
I've seen much better product from so called "cheaper" brands and other manufacturers.

They need to roll those edges, or sand the nicks and metal.
Then, they need to get someone who KNOWS how to apply the coating.
Flaking? On a product with "DINAN" stamped on it? They should be ashamed.

[jspen]

I am really shocked to find out all this bad stuff about Dinan! Really makes me think. Once I purchase a 135i I was planning on getting a Dinan Package but all this negativity makes me want to save my money and just get a JB3 and BMW Perf. exhaust or something along those lines. FTL to Dinan

[jmunro]

I think it's pretty obvious by now that almost nothing that Dinan has to offer is worth anything.

[MastaMind]

Dave, the edges of my tips have a "rough" look to them, but I don't have any problems with the ceramic coating. Personally, I like the way it looks, but that's obviously subjective. Just to be sure, I'll double check the coating tonight.

Originally Posted by jmunro

I think it's pretty obvious by now that almost nothing that Dinan has to offer is worth anything.

I have the stage II reflash, exhaust, and stage I suspension. I'm happy with all of it. Obviously, you have an agenda and no experience here on the forum.

[davemohan]

Mastamind - The rough cut may be their "style", and if so, maybe it's my bad for not researching it if I don't like that style. (Although that reminds me of the Microsoft "It isn't a bug, it's a feature!" approach.) But, the combination of cut, coating material, and coating process should not leave bare metal (as it did on mine) and should not flake off (again, as it did on mine).

jmunro - Seems like a huge leap there, buddy. One bad product does not kill an entire line.

Although I will say that my trip through the Land of Dinan has made Alice's trip Through the Looking Glass seem almost uneventful. Full write-up coming as soon as I see where it all ends. I've had a flash that wasn't performed, wrong parts sent, parts listed on the invoice but not sent, ridiculous stories, missed commitments, etc., etc., etc. They gave me price reductions in a few cases to appease me, but I would really rather pay full price and have it done right. And I have no doubt they will screw up my rebate.

At this point the only "excuse" I have for continuing with Dinan is the warranty. Otherwise, I would trash the whole works and start over. And I was one of the "Dinan guys".

For the record, and I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it at this point, I have Stage 2 software, Stage 3 suspension, and the "exhaust" (muffler). All have had screw-ups at one point or another. As I said, full write-up coming and only Dinan can determine how this "adventure" ends up.

[Ruffan]

Originally Posted by jmunro

I think it's pretty obvious by now that almost nothing that Dinan has to offer is worth anything.

This is an ignorant and ridiculous comment. I have driven many Dinan cars, and almost all of them are outstanding. This is the ONLY product I have ever seen the Dinan name on that has not lived up to the brand's levels of refinement and quality.

[vasracer]

yeah, I agree with the last post. I have had a lot of dinan stuff, engine upgrades on my z3mcoupe and now suspension on the 135i...

First of all, I am impressed that you took the time to look at the edges and inside of your exhaust, maybe it's because of my back or that I am lazy, I have never looked at the inside of my exhaust, even when I wash the car. Does it sound good? Isn't that the reason for buying it? It isn't going to make you any faster. It's not going to increase the resale value.

If this was a concour's ferrari or something, i would understand, but it's not. Most people think the car is ugly, and never get to the exhausts anyway.

anyway, just defending my decision to spend a lot of money on Dinan

[jmunro]

It's not ignorant. There are many much less expensive alternative aftermarket products of equal or superior quality. Simple as that.

[MastaMind]

Originally Posted by jmunro

It's not ignorant. There are many much less expensive alternative aftermarket products of equal or superior quality. Simple as that.

If you're going to make blanket statements, at least keep your argument consistent. There is no correlation between this post and your original post. Obviously, you are a credible source.

This is why I rarely come on this forum anymore.

[davemohan]

Originally Posted by vasracer

First of all, I am impressed that you took the time to look at the edges and inside of your exhaust, maybe it's because of my back or that I am lazy, I have never looked at the inside of my exhaust, even when I wash the car. Does it sound good? Isn't that the reason for buying it? It isn't going to make you any faster. It's not going to increase the resale value.

If this was a concour's ferrari or something, i would understand, but it's not. Most people think the car is ugly, and never get to the exhausts anyway.

anyway, just defending my decision to spend a lot of money on Dinan

Maybe I'm failing to understand this post. If I bought the exhaust strictly for sound, I would have unpacked the stocker, bought something cheap n' loud, or drilled friggin holes in the stock muffler. If you pay $1000 for a muffler, stainless, titanium, or whatever, you expect craftsmanship and quality, good fit n' finish, and something that in some way justifies the cost. Faster? no. (Although it does extend your over-run by one or two hundred rpm, for what that's worth.) And resale value? You gotta be kidding, right?

As far as not looking inside your exhaust, sorry about your lazy back, but the shiny bare metal just jumped out in the sun against the flat black coating. You notice shiny things, don't you?

Are you honestly saying "It ain't a Ferrari, in fact its ugly, so spend a grand to make it look crappier, but sound noisier!"? Or where are you coming from?

I honestly don't give a rat's ass if "Most people think the car is ugly, and never get to the exhausts anyway". At my age the only one I'm trying to impress is myself, not the kids at the local hang-out. And this poorly made piece of crap just doesn't impress ME.

And, just to be a grammar asshole, who is "concour" (as in "concour's ferrari") and what Ferrari does he/she own? And try using capitals and punctuation. It's fun!

[ronnyek]

hrmm... really cant say it surprises me. Not because I have experience with dinan or anything, but more so because everyone seems to be about ABSOLUTE bottom line. Gotta get absolute maximum profit.

Really quite sad the quality of some of the stuff thats coming off the line from some of these guys.

Honestly, tips wouldnt bother me that much if your just talking about the cut not being polished up... but bother me or not, the kind of premiums they are charging... wow.

[jmunro]

Originally Posted by MastaMind

If you're going to make blanket statements, at least keep your argument consistent. There is no correlation between this post and your original post. Obviously, you are a credible source.

This is why I rarely come on this forum anymore.

Oh ok, now I see why I'm ignorant. Get a life...

[Ruffan]

jmunro,

This is an online community, which is only beneficial to the members if everyone agrees to be productive, helpful and generally friendly. Some of us spent money on a product or a group of products for one reason or another. The fact that some of us chose Dinan stuff was our decision and I'm pretty sure we can all decide for ourselves whether it was worth it or not. The OP here decided to share his frustrations about a product that wasn't living up to the standards he expected, and was looking for productive feedback or confirmation from other owners that it was not just his individual unit that was not up to snuff.

Your comment about all Dinan products being worthless was not at all productive. Let this post be, and move on to another thread where you can participate in a positive way so that we can get back to discussing what to do about this obvious flaw in workmanship.

[Luvmybmw]

Originally Posted by Ruffan

jmunro,

This is an online community, which is only beneficial to the members if everyone agrees to be productive, helpful and generally friendly. Some of us spent money on a product or a group of products for one reason or another. The fact that some of us chose Dinan stuff was our decision and I'm pretty sure we can all decide for ourselves whether it was worth it or not. The OP here decided to share his frustrations about a product that wasn't living up to the standards he expected, and was looking for productive feedback or confirmation from other owners that it was not just his individual unit that was not up to snuff.

Your comment about all Dinan products being worthless was not at all productive. Let this post be, and move on to another thread where you can participate in a positive way so that we can get back to discussing what to do about this obvious flaw in workmanship.

Well said

[davemohan]

I got an update from Dinan's warranty department. I'm not going to cut n' paste the email because I haven't asked permission from the author, but here's the gist of it:

Dinan uses a third party to manufacture the tips for 135s. (No idea whether this is only 135s, all black tips, or ???, he just said for the 135.) They had been cutting them with a band saw, which Dinan found unacceptable. (This did not, however, prevent them from shipping god knows how many out to customers.) The third party now uses a laser cut, so the quality should be better going forward.

The third party that coats the tips (Not specified whether this is the same vendor that cuts them) has been "inconsistent" in applying the coatings to the inside and edges of the tips. Dinan is trying to resolve this issue.

Finally, Dinan has sent another muffler out to the dealer as the second replacement.

My advice, if you have the rough cut tips, is to check for flaking from time to time, and check the edges for bare metal. If you see bare metal, you have a break in the coating and a potential for more problems later as the elements break down that edge. If you have rough cuts and solid coating (no gaps), and you like the look, keep it! If you have bare metal or like a clean finish, take it up with Dinan.

I'll post another follow-up after I see what they sent this time.

[davemohan]

A final (I hope) update:

I had the new exhaust with the "laser cut" black tips installed. The cuts are very clean and look good. The coating shows no signs of peeling and looks like it is applied well. Bottom line, I'm satisfied with the end result. These are pretty basic exhaust tips, but the Dinan logo etching looks subtle yet good and they have an appeal. If you are looking for rolled edges, black chrome, etc., look elsewhere.

If the edge finish is important to you, I would ask the sales rep to make sure you don't get one of the "band saw cut" versions as they still seem to have a few in stock, and check it before the install because afterward your stock pipe has been cut.

On a personal note, just a little perspective in case this seems like mountains out of mole hills:

I guess somebody has to be at the far end of the bell curve, and I must be it with Dinan. As I mentioned earlier, really had more than my share of problems with them with a variety of issues since the first of the year, and this was the one that finally got through to me. (In part because it is a 3 hour trip, each way, to the Dinan dealership to replace the exhaust. Not their fault, but irritating.)

Honestly, the problems seemed to primarily revolve around one individual who shall remain nameless. Nice guy, and gave me several financial breaks, but to quote the sheriff in Cool Hand Luke, "What we have here is a failure to communicate." Technical questions got broad, general responses, tried to talk his way around problems (hoping they would go away?), and so forth. The mere fact that he didn't know the answer never stopped him from giving one.

Recently I started going through someone else at Dinan to get the issues resolved, and so far it has been like night and day. Reasonable answers to questions and issues are getting resolved. Almost back to where I could recommend Dinan. (With a few qualifications...)

I'm going to update the first post, and clean up a couple of bits of excessive sarcasm and the like.

[frimmelnojerz]

i sorta had a feeling that the rough edges look was the general design they were going for but the chipped coating is pretty unacceptable from a company like dinan. glad you got things quasi sorted out.