Anyone else having second thoughts due to the new software

[plien69]

You're thinking of the N52 engine in the 128. The N54 twin turbo is aluminum block with cast iron sleeves.

[looking]

Originally Posted by Mad Dragon

What ridiculous game? Protecting their product? Protecting themselves from false warranty claims?

I'm sure a lot of people buying the 135 have heard or read the reports on how great the engine is - in fact that's the main selling point, small car with a great engine. Now, there are many things that make a great engine but, what separated this engnie from other turbo engines is the fact that there was no lag. In fact BMW added an extra turbo to try to get rid/ or at the very least minimize the lag. So now that BMW has retuned the engine so, that there is lag built back in - what makes this engine different than another turbo engine? Add to that the fact that a different tuned engine means different car characteristics.

I wouldn't exactly say that BMW is playing a ridiculous game - that's a bit harsh - but at the same time it seems like they've detuned the car.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by excel

I'm sure a lot of people buying the 135 have heard or read the reports on how great the engine is - in fact that's the main selling point, small car with a great engine. Now, there are many things that make a great engine but, what separated this engnie from other turbo engines is the fact that there was no lag. In fact BMW added an extra turbo to try to get rid/ or at the very least minimize the lag. So now that BMW has retuned the engine so, that there is lag built back in - what makes this engine different than another turbo engine? Add to that the fact that a different tuned engine means different car characteristics.

I wouldn't exactly say that BMW is playing a ridiculous game - that's a bit harsh - but at the same time it seems like they've detuned the car.

I guess I need to check my software version. I do not notice turbo lag *at all*. I can shift to 2nd gear at 10mph and still have enough torque at very low rpm to pull away very smoothly.

[JuggernautTCW]

someone please just post some dyno graphs for comparison... but if this lag only happens in 1st gear, 3rd or 4th gear dyno pull wont show. on my wrx and friends STis, the turbo lag is on every single gear and you have to make sure the engine is above 3k rpm at all times which is annoying. there were cases where ppl do WOT at 2k rpm on hot days and got CEL.

[looking]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

I guess I need to check my software version. I do not notice turbo lag *at all*. I can shift to 2nd gear at 10mph and still have enough torque at very low rpm to pull away very smoothly.

Like others that have posted in this thread - I too would like to see actual proof that there is lag, how much and where. I mean personally I can deal with lag - I had an STi. But again, the beauty of the N54 was that there was no lag - I mean I thought that was BMW's justification for going twin turbo and away from the brilliant straight 6.

[penny]

How do we check the software version we have?

[0002s]

Originally Posted by slickone

No, seeing stories like this increase in numbers, makes me have second thoughts.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...15#post2836615

$26k in repair cost.

You do realize that the owner of the $26K car had DP, CB, JB2 and had a spike in boost (from his setup) that caused this ? He freely admits that he screwed his own car up. If you plan on being as STUPID as this driver....I agree with you that you should stay away from the 535/335/135 platforms.

[looking]

Originally Posted by 0002s

You do realize that the owner of the $26K car had DP, CB, JB2 and had a spike in boost (from his setup) that caused this ? He freely admits that he screwed his own car up. If you plan on being as STUPID as this driver....I agree with you that you should stay away from the 535/335/135 platforms.

Why is he stupid? the mods are all pretty standard mods - basic mods really. I think the only thing that was stupid was increasing the boost too much - how much boost was he running? I mean honestly if he didn't increase the boost by that much, I think it's pretty crap BMW parts.

From what I've been reading, seems like BMW is concerned with the current stock set up they originally put into the car hence, the new software.

Let's not give BMW too much credit either....

[0002s]

Originally Posted by excel

Why is he stupid? the mods are all pretty standard mods - basic mods really. I think the only thing that was stupid was increasing the boost too much - how much boost was he running? I mean honestly if he didn't increase the boost by that much, I think it's pretty crap BMW parts.

From what I've been reading, seems like BMW is concerned with the current stock set up they originally put into the car hence, the new software.

Let's not give BMW too much credit either....

It's stupid because he increased the boost to the point he blew his motor up. Had he not done this he wouldn't have been in this boat. v29.2 wasn't the issue here. Mods + too much boost = BOOM....this has nothing to do with v29.2

16+ psi....so 8.5 is normal w/12ish max from ECU.


As far as BMW being crappy...???? If you were a company who manufactured a product that had normal performance specs, would you honor a warranty claim from someone who exceeded the specs?

BMW is concerned with wastegate issue, some electrical issues and people tapping into the ECU with tunes. That's all v29.2 is. (right now)

[looking]

Originally Posted by 0002s

It's stupid because he increased the boost to the point he blew his motor up. Had he not done this he wouldn't have been in this boat. v29.2 wasn't the issue here. Mods + too much boost = BOOM....this has nothing to do with v29.2

16+ psi....so 8.5 is normal w/12ish max from ECU.


As far as BMW being crappy...???? If you were a company who manufactured a product that had normal performance specs, would you honor a warranty claim from someone who exceeded the specs?

BMW is concerned with wastegate issue, some electrical issues and people tapping into the ECU with tunes. That's all v29.2 is. (right now)

I didn't say BMW was crappy - I said if the guy didn't go crazy on the boost and the turbo still had problems than to me the part is probably pretty crap.

I know this is a BMW forum and yes over modding a car isn't BMW's fault nor should BMW honor a warranty over this issue but let's not be so quick to let BMW off the hook. People up the boost on stock turbos all the time - although if he boosted it up to 16psi that's usually too much...

[ML]

Don't forget that the N54 is a high compression engine, 10.2 to 1. Pretty much every other turbo car on the market, at least with motors that were actually designed to be boosted, are relatively low compression, around 8 to 1, to account for the forced induction charge of 16 psi (round about stock numbers for the STi). Therefore, I am not surprised that high levels of boost (16+ psi) on a high compression engine resulted in something failing.

[0002s]

Originally Posted by excel

I didn't say BMW was crappy - I said if the guy didn't go crazy on the boost and the turbo still had problems than to me the part is probably pretty crap.
I know this is a BMW forum and yes over modding a car isn't BMW's fault nor should BMW honor a warranty over this issue but let's not be so quick to let BMW off the hook. People up the boost on stock turbos all the time - although if he boosted it up to 16psi that's usually too much...

I would agree, the issue here is he was WELL OVER what is safe. He even admits this in his forum and accept full responsibility.

BMW is not having mass stock or slightly modded turbo issue. The parts aren't crappy. If they were I'd be the first in line bitching.

[imported_saturn]

Originally Posted by excel

I'm sure a lot of people buying the 135 have heard or read the reports on how great the engine is - in fact that's the main selling point, small car with a great engine. Now, there are many things that make a great engine but, what separated this engnie from other turbo engines is the fact that there was no lag. In fact BMW added an extra turbo to try to get rid/ or at the very least minimize the lag. So now that BMW has retuned the engine so, that there is lag built back in - what makes this engine different than another turbo engine? Add to that the fact that a different tuned engine means different car characteristics.

I wouldn't exactly say that BMW is playing a ridiculous game - that's a bit harsh - but at the same time it seems like they've detuned the car.

Yes, that's right. They provided a car to all the magazines which all unanimously reported that they loved the car largely due to lag-free behavior. It's incredibly misleading to change such a key selling point midway though a model year like that.

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by saturn

Yes, that's right. They provided a car to all the magazines which all unanimously reported that they loved the car largely due to lag-free behavior. It's incredibly misleading to change such a key selling point midway though a model year like that.

.. actually it is one of the reasons I love the car so much .. to me, it will take a LOT out of the car if lag is truely introduced ..

Crowley

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by aus

updates that seem to induce considerable lag below 3000 RPM? It's a big topic on E90.

I love the low end torque of the 335, and for BMW to introduce this turbo lag in pretty ridiculous.

It probably won't be as big a topic here since most cars will have the new software and people will just think it's the way the car is.

Most people are unaware of resetting their throttle. With gas prices rising, a lot of people are driving more gingerly and forget that BMW's have adaptive throttle.

The new PRogman is not an issue with any sort of "lag"... it's a driver issue.

[looking]

Originally Posted by Crowley

.. actually it is one of the reasons I love the car so much .. to me, it will take a LOT out of the car if lag is truely introduced ..

Crowley

Well the thing is, if the car now has lag - what makes this engine any different/better than other turbo's? In fact, I think it would make it a less superior engine than say the STi I4T - that's only 2.5l and it's running more boost 12-14 psi - and produces almost the same # - I don't want to make this a STi vs. 135 but, you would have to consider other Turbo engines out there...

The next question would be, if there is going to be lag, why not use a bigger single Turbo (more performance - can take more boost - plus don't have worry about another turbo) - I guess I'm just disappointed in BMW's solution - saves their asses but takes away from what the car is.

[0002s]

Originally Posted by excel

Well the thing is, if the car now has lag - what makes this engine any different/better than other turbo's? In fact, I think it would make it a less superior engine than say the STi I4T - that's only 2.5l and it's running more boost 12-14 psi - and produces almost the same # - I don't want to make this a STi vs. 135 but, you would have to consider other Turbo engines out there...

The next question would be, if there is going to be lag, why not use a bigger single Turbo (more performance - can take more boost - plus don't have worry about another turbo) - I guess I'm just disappointed in BMW's solution - saves their asses but takes away from what the car is.

Because you will see more lag with a single. The reason BMW has 2 tiny turbos is to keep lag to a minimum.

[looking]

Originally Posted by 0002s

Because you will see more lag with a single. The reason BMW has 2 tiny turbos is to keep lag to a minimum.

Ya but if we're going to get more performance out of the bigger/single turbo the trade off might be worth it. I'm not talking Evo lag - but smothing more managable like that in the STi? Also don't forget with the larger engine/bigger displacement it can handle a larger single turbo with minimal lag - so that if there was a lag equivalent to that being produced by the new software upgrade but we're gaining 20-30 more hp - not to mention onless mechanical part to worry about - why not?

[itsthechuck]

Maybe someone will make a single turbo conversion, has to be some potential there, along with the potential of spending a huge amount of money.

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by itsthechuck

Maybe someone will make a single turbo conversion, has to be some potential there, along with the potential of spending a huge amount of money.

It's already been done on the N54, now it's just a matter of making it practical for a 135i.

[0002s]

Originally Posted by excel

Ya but if we're going to get more performance out of the bigger/single turbo the trade off might be worth it. I'm not talking Evo lag - but smothing more managable like that in the STi? Also don't forget with the larger engine/bigger displacement it can handle a larger single turbo with minimal lag - so that if there was a lag equivalent to that being produced by the new software upgrade but we're gaining 20-30 more hp - not to mention onless mechanical part to worry about - why not?

I'm sure it can be done and crazy mad power can be derived. Problem is now you have a fully modded car with huge sums of money in it. No warranty at all and no chance of keeping it.

There is going to be no "cheap" relatively lag free single turbo that is run by the stock ecu.

Modding cars is never cheap or mechanical worry free. I learn a few cars ago, that if you really want ZO6 performance then you should just buy the ZO6. Cheaper in the long run and works every time you put the key in.

I have blown up one engine in my car modding experience and that was enough to stop me from trying to push a turd to light speed.

[heyimsam]

Does anyone know how much boost that guy was actually running to cause that much damage?