[bsjd00]

It this poster full of it, or did Audi really beat out BMW in the new issue of Road & Track?

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4b7/msgs/32161.phtml

[JamieA]

Someone did post "but this is R&T" indicating that there is probably an Audi leaning there.

Audi's quattro is recognised as being brilliant though, and maybe this win was on the basis of AWD capability only.

Try our RWD against their FWD and see the difference...

[NaTuReB0Y]

I'm more interested in who is #2?

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

I'm more interested in who is #2?

Natureboy, you and I both know its japanese.

[ksfrogman]

These are all AWD models.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by ksfrogman

These are all AWD models.

Just realized that. Quattro > Xi

[Chesmu]

Subura legacy beats a 3 series?!?!
uh-uh.
no way.
liar.
bribe-taker
just plain silly
IMO

[yujini]

I think that's about right. If we're talking about 4WD, I think Audi's Quattro and Subaru's 4WD technology is above BMW's Xi.

Everything other than quattro for Audi sux though.

[NaTuReB0Y]

I'm surprised the Lancer Evo IX is not in there.....
my brother is pissed cause his car didn't make the top 7....hahaha!

[thunderbirdsarego]

Any idea which issue of Road and Track this was described in?

[NaTuReB0Y]

March.........

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by ksfrogman

These are all AWD models.

Exactly...

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by moocow

Subura legacy beats a 3 series?!?!
uh-uh.
no way.
liar.
bribe-taker
just plain silly
IMO

Wheels Magazine put the Suburu Liberty (as it is called here) above the E46 330i, based on bang for buck.

They acknowledged the 330 was the better driver's car, but not $30k better than the 3.0 Liberty.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by yujini

I think that's about right. If we're talking about 4WD, I think Audi's Quattro and Subaru's 4WD technology is above BMW's Xi.

Everything other than quattro for Audi sux though.

Yes, Audi's quattro is what is essential to the Audi DNA. I am very interested to see what happens with (and to drive) the new generation quattro which has a RWD bias, as seen on the RS4, when it moves to general duty...

[govtec]

Originally Posted by JamieA

Yes, Audi's quattro is what is essential to the Audi DNA. I am very interested to see what happens with (and to drive) the new generation quattro which has a RWD bias, as seen on the RS4, when it moves to general duty...

I agree with u Simon Cowell!

[Ed_330i]

Audis are kinda retarted? the motor is always in front of the front axle, yet the AWD is biased for rear?

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by Ed_330i

Audis are kinda retarted? the motor is always in front of the front axle, yet the AWD is biased for rear?

You mean retarded...

I don't think this is a great secret, or anyone disagrees with you, even dyed in the wool Audi supporters. It is simply not optimal. Hence RWD biased quattro not being generally available right now, I think the quattro in the RS4 is a "taste test". May as well get income off the engineering investment right now rather than wait for the B8 to be released...

Audi believe in a longitudinal engine, the quattro will not mate with a transverse engine, hence the A3, TT and the VW stable all use a different and far inferior haldex system vs Audi's torsen diff.

Longitudinal engines give rise to packaging problems, and they previously donated the A4 platform to the Passat when they released the next version. With VW now building the Passat off the Golf/A3 platform, the B8 A4 will be free of these constraints.

It will be interesting to see if Audi are really serious about being sporty, because if they are, the B8 A4 will have its engine properly mounted behind the axle, and possibly be RWD... rumours have been circulating about RWD A4 mules doing the rounds... though it could have just been the new quattro system.

The B7 is not really more than a major refresh, and so inherited the B6 architecture, which was frozen when Audi were not as serious about their sporting pretentions.

You see car making is a business like any other... they have to make decisions about where to invest limited capital, and sometimes this can mean half-done cars and compromises... this is visible to you and I because we are enthusiasts, but to joe-public this is largely invisible because they see cars differently --- "I will have the red one thanks!"

[govtec]

Originally Posted by JamieA

You mean retarded...

I don't think this is a great secret, or anyone disagrees with you, even dyed in the wool Audi supporters. It is simply not optimal. Hence RWD biased quattro not being generally available right now, I think the quattro in the RS4 is a "taste test". May as well get income off the engineering investment right now rather than wait for the B8 to be released...

Audi believe in a longitudinal engine, the quattro will not mate with a transverse engine, hence the A3, TT and the VW stable all use a different and far inferior haldex system vs Audi's torsen diff.

Longitudinal engines give rise to packaging problems, and they previously donated the A4 platform to the Passat when they released the next version. With VW now building the Passat off the Golf/A3 platform, the B8 A4 will be free of these constraints.

It will be interesting to see if Audi are really serious about being sporty, because if they are, the B8 A4 will have its engine properly mounted behind the axle, and possibly be RWD... rumours have been circulating about RWD A4 mules doing the rounds... though it could have just been the new quattro system.

The B7 is not really more than a major refresh, and so inherited the B6 architecture, which was frozen when Audi were not as serious about their sporting pretentions.

You see car making is a business like any other... they have to make decisions about where to invest limited capital, and sometimes this can mean half-done cars and compromises... this is visible to you and I because we are enthusiasts, but to joe-public this is largely invisible because they see cars differently --- "I will have the red one thanks!"

Simon Cowell, please don't be too harsh with our competitor Audi. This isn't American Idol and we aren't judging based on vocal talent but car talent.

[thunderbirdsarego]

Originally Posted by yujini

I think that's about right. If we're talking about 4WD, I think Audi's Quattro and Subaru's 4WD technology is above BMW's Xi.

Everything other than quattro for Audi sux though.

I've always regarded the Audi as having one of the best highway driving AWD systems and Subaru as being better in deep snow. But this is largely based on hearsay - I've never seen a road test dedicated at really describing the differences under a wide variety of conditions.

In fact, there was a post on this site recently quoting a foreign publication which preferred xDrive over 4 Matic (Mercs) and the Subaru system?

I think that the truth is that there is not necessarily a better system but many systems each with different characteristics (strengths, weaknesses) when mated to a particular vehicle (weight distribution, suspension, vehicle mass, CofG etc.).

Based on my own testing (I test drove lots of AWD cars prior to purchasing my 330xi) I would say that BMW focussed on retaining a RWD type driving dynamic. The xDrive system and the way it is integrated into DSTC seems to make for a very natural and non-intrusive drive. But I'm sure the Subaru would be better in deep mud/snow. (Having said that I'd love to see some test data!)

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by govtec

Simon Cowell, please don't be too harsh with our competitor Audi. This isn't American Idol and we aren't judging based on vocal talent but car talent.

LOL - where did this Simon Cowell thing come from all of a sudden?

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by JamieA

LOL - where did this Simon Cowell thing come from all of a sudden?

who is simon cowell......?

[Saintor]

Originally Posted by bsjd00

It this poster full of it, or did Audi really beat out BMW in the new issue of Road & Track?

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4b7/msgs/32161.phtml

I may be full of it, but I took it there.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=129445