NOT a track car..

[N55_BBM]

Let me begin this by saying I love my 135. Best car I've owned by far. It's a lot of fun, a truly amazing drive. As a daily driver it suits my needs and wants 100%. But I've also done 1 autox and 3 track days with it, and as much as it sucks to admit this, I fully understand cases where BMW will void the warranty if you track the car. Plain and simple: THIS IS NOT A TRACK CAR. It was built to be an everyday car, and if you track it without the proper modifications/care/attention, you WILL tear it apart. Yes you'll be fast, more so than 95% of other cars out there, but it will eventually give. And I guess BMW has no business performing warranty maintenance if you are using a car that wasn't built for the track on the track as much as I hate to say this.

It's got a fabulous engine and amazing transmission, but in stock form it simply lacks three more important things for track:

- Tires
- Brakes
- Suspension

First of all I've done 2 track days with the stock RFTs. It's doable, and for RFTs one can argue they're not that bad. But a track car cannot run on those, plain and simple. They still suck.

Second comes the suspension, which is tuned to go with the RFTs. Once you go to non runflats, it's just so freaking soft and there's the infamous body roll. At Lime Rock I actually had my arms sore from having to put so much effort to get it through the really fast downhill righthander before the straight. It's like I felt like the car would just flip over to the left! Plus when you're changing directions really fast (i.e. lefthander followed by righthander at Lime Rock), the excessive body roll just kills it. Wore the shoulders of my brand new Michelin PSSs during the last heat because I was going really hard (and fast before anyone says anything). Could've been my own fault for being "only" at 40psi, but with body roll like that it gets difficult to blame pressure

Third, the brakes might be sick Brembos but they just can't handle track days because they're not properly cooled. Warped my rotors on my 2nd track day and this past weekend I got air in my lines (and hopefully nothing more), probably because the fluid that comes stock is so crappy and not built to resist such hard braking. It gave by the end of the 2nd session. This car is in serious need of brake ducts and better fluid. Slotted rotors wouldn't hurt as well.

And then there are all the other little components that go with it, like camber, LSD etc etc.

Bottom line is, if you want to get this car track-ready, you have to make a ton of modifications and spend a significant amount of money. And you also have to figure out a way to get all aftermarket parts to work well as a system. No use in getting all the best individual parts out there if they don't work well together. And by the time you're done doing all of this... you've spent way more cash than you'd need to get the 1M, which (hopefully?) truly is a track car...

Sorry for the long thread. Just kinda frustrated right now.

[Impervious]

I agree with everything. I've always felt the 135i is about as good as you can get for a street car but it is no race/track car without heavy modifications. Thanks for confirming this.

[BimmerE82]

Great info .....not that I was ever going to track my car but nonetheless good to know!

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

Let me begin this by saying I love my 135. Best car I've owned by far. It's a lot of fun, a truly amazing drive. As a daily driver it suits my needs and wants 100%. But I've also done 1 autox and 3 track days with it, and as much as it sucks to admit this, I fully understand cases where BMW will void the warranty if you track the car. Plain and simple: THIS IS NOT A TRACK CAR. It was built to be an everyday car, and if you track it without the proper modifications/care/attention, you WILL tear it apart. Yes you'll be fast, more so than 95% of other cars out there, but it will eventually give. And I guess BMW has no business performing warranty maintenance if you are using a car that wasn't built for the track on the track as much as I hate to say this.

It's got a fabulous engine and amazing transmission, but in stock form it simply lacks three more important things for track:

- Tires
- Brakes
- Suspension

First of all I've done 2 track days with the stock RFTs. It's doable, and for RFTs one can argue they're not that bad. But a track car cannot run on those, plain and simple. They still suck.

Second comes the suspension, which is tuned to go with the RFTs. Once you go to non runflats, it's just so freaking soft and there's the infamous body roll. At Lime Rock I actually had my arms sore from having to put so much effort to get it through the really fast downhill righthander before the straight. It's like I felt like the car would just flip over to the left! Plus when you're changing directions really fast (i.e. lefthander followed by righthander at Lime Rock), the excessive body roll just kills it. Wore the shoulders of my brand new Michelin PSSs during the last heat because I was going really hard (and fast before anyone says anything). Could've been my own fault for being "only" at 40psi, but with body roll like that it gets difficult to blame pressure

Third, the brakes might be sick Brembos but they just can't handle track days because they're not properly cooled. Warped my rotors on my 2nd track day and this past weekend I got air in my lines (and hopefully nothing more), probably because the fluid that comes stock is so crappy and not built to resist such hard braking. It gave by the end of the 2nd session. This car is in serious need of brake ducts and better fluid. Slotted rotors wouldn't hurt as well.

And then there are all the other little components that go with it, like camber, LSD etc etc.

Bottom line is, if you want to get this car track-ready, you have to make a ton of modifications and spend a significant amount of money. And you also have to figure out a way to get all aftermarket parts to work well as a system. No use in getting all the best individual parts out there if they don't work well together. And by the time you're done doing all of this... you've spent way more cash than you'd need to get the 1M, which (hopefully?) truly is a track car...

Sorry for the long thread. Just kinda frustrated right now.

Not many cars are track cars out of the factory but a few mods and she's a real track monster.

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

Not many cars are track cars out of the factory but a few mods and she's a real track monster.

Very true. But I think in terms of dollars and time, a "few" is quite an understatement. Suspension alone between all different parts, labor for installation, alignment, adjustments, etc., you're already well beyond the $3k barrier if you're lucky and get it right on the first shot. Tires? Another $1000 at the very least. Brake ducts? ~$800 for the performance bumper with the ducts, which apparently aren't even that efficient. Drilled rotors/performance brakes? Another $1000. Better racing fluid (plus having to flush it/bleed it way more often), another couple hundred... LSD, camber plates, etc? Probably around at least $1k...

I mean if you add it up you're better off getting a 1M

[infinitekidM2C]

Kind of true; parts aint cheap...ive done suspension, wheels, tires, breaks, brake lines, brake fluid, camber adjustment, upgrade oil cooler....etc. yikes

[Experimental]

I also agree with everything you've said in your post. But, this isn't really news to BMWs.

A) Track Days, which most are High Performance Drivers Education, are meant to help you learn the characteristics of your street vehicle and keep proficient at high performance driving. That's always something to keep in mind.

B) Ever since I got into BMWs (and track days at the same time) in '99, I've seen and experienced the fact that to take your car from street to track, you will probably need to do some modifications. Depending on what level of a driver you are and what kind of car you are driving will depend on how much you have to do in modifications. The first step is generally brake fluid, brake pads, upgraded street tires, and mild suspension improvements. Next step after that, you're looking at big brake kits, racing tires, and better cooling for various components including the engine, transmission, diff, and brakes.

BMW OEM brake fluid isn't designed with the track in mind too much. And many HPDE instructors wouldn't recommend running the stock brake pads either. Tires are really your choice. I just got my set of PSS tires installed a couple of months ago, and I do not plan on putting those on the race course. Instead, a dedicated set of track tires would be my choice of rubber.

Also keep in mind that with the kind of power to weight ratio the 135i has, you're carrying a lot of energy into the corners and that will affect your brake system and tires more.

I hope this post doesn't come off as flaming you, because I'm not. But with a little preparation, BMWs can make great track day vehicles. I did several with my last street car, and never did I have problems with the car since I did some track prep before each outing.

[Experimental]

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

And by the time you're done doing all of this... you've spent way more cash than you'd need to get the 1M, which (hopefully?) truly is a track car...

I wouldn't really call the 1M a true track car. You'll still have to do brake pads and fluid, and a set of tires wouldn't hurt.

[IZAGLO]

BMW will be the first to admit that the 135i suspension was set up for the street. You want a track car out of the gate, get a M !!. As far as the RFT..They suck...they are the worst WORST tires for this car. No not a track set up, but my 3 mods made a BIG difference...M3 FSB and my AD08's... The AD08 have really made my drive amazing....great great tire...and yes the JB4has been really nice as well..

[3liter1]

frankly, lower horsepower, and lighter weight are your best friends for balancing the two in one car. as another reply mentions the track days are learning events. my suggestion is to set your car up to perform as you like for the street,then work with that on the track. better brake pads are probably the most important. that said, the overall underlying problem with BMWs is the suspension tuning to accomodate the runflats. it has taken me much reading of posts and experience in my 128to come to that simple conclusion. but there is really nothing else out there that captures the imagination or driving fun, evenfactoring in that eventually you will need to modify the suspension once you ditch the runflats.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

I mean if you add it up you're better off getting a 1M

Well of course. That's why BMW makes a 1M.

[N55_BBM]

this all makes sense. problem is I feel like the car is perfect for daily driving. i mean, yes the suspension is soft now that i ditched the runflats, but it's also more comfortable, and i really don't know why anyone at all needs suspension upgrades for the street. i mean, unless you're treating every exit/access ramp like a racetrack curve which is just plain irresponsible i don't see how it would make a difference. and even then my stock suspension as crappy as it is gets me around the racetrack VERY fast.

likewise for the brakes. they actually are REALLY good for the street. i mean if you need to slam them they will stop the car very well.. but for repeated heavy use on the track they are as good as crap.

so in that sense it gets really tricky trying to accomplish this whole using your daily driver as a track toy thing..

[RiefferD]

My car prior to my 1er was a Subaru Sti, which I used to track frequently. I found out early that I would need to change the entire suspension, install larger sway bars, get sticker tires, group n top hats, stiffer bushings, and a big brake kit.

I say this because, most cars at our price point will require an additional investment if you wish for it to perform like a super car at the track. If our cars came with those items, it would no longer be a 135i, it would be a m3 - and cost just as much. I don't think Bmw had the 'track' in mind when it built the car. Most 135i owners will never track their car - so they built it for 'most of us'. The good thing though is that it comes with a motor that is entirely tunable and it's waaaay easy to increase the horsepower with a minimum investment. Look at it this way, if you are willing to invest 10k-15k, you can build a car that will compete with cars that cost 3 times as much as yours.

[3liter1]

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

this all makes sense. problem is I feel like the car is perfect for daily driving. i mean, yes the suspension is soft now that i ditched the runflats, but it's also more comfortable, and i really don't know why anyone at all needs suspension upgrades for the street. i mean, unless you're treating every exit/access ramp like a racetrack curve which is just plain irresponsible i don't see how it would make a difference. and even then my stock suspension as crappy as it is gets me around the racetrack VERY fast.

likewise for the brakes. they actually are REALLY good for the street. i mean if you need to slam them they will stop the car very well.. but for repeated heavy use on the track they are as good as crap.

so in that sense it gets really tricky trying to accomplish this whole using your daily driver as a track toy thing..

yeah. i bought an s4 after an audi 1.8t thinking it would be better on the track. i tore up tires on that car like crazy. hence now i have the 128. the best advice i have for you is to lift off the throttle earlier and work on smooth turns. you'l probably still outrun 90% of the cars in your group, but still get eaten by that guy in the track prepped e36m3 with 100 less hp than you have!

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by AudiS4

yeah. i bought an s4 after an audi 1.8t thinking it would be better on the track. i tore up tires on that car like crazy. hence now i have the 128. the best advice i have for you is to lift off the throttle earlier and work on smooth turns. you'l probably still outrun 90% of the cars in your group, but still get eaten by that guy in the track prepped e36m3 with 100 less hp than you have!

lol so funny you mention the E36 M3. that's the guy who caused the damage this last weekend. got really competitive. in the third out of 4 heats the guy beats me by .05 seconds. so I just drove like a mad man on the last heat and at the end ended up beating him by 0.3s. Now I have my left tires with worn shoulders and my brake fluid is crap. and his car is probably intact. although I have the first place plaque

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by N55_BBM

lol so funny you mention the E36 M3. that's the guy who caused the damage this last weekend. got really competitive. in the third out of 4 heats the guy beats me by .05 seconds. so I just drove like a mad man on the last heat and at the end ended up beating him by 0.3s. Now I have my left tires with worn shoulders and my brake fluid is crap. and his car is probably intact. although I have the first place plaque

you did the right thing; glory or death (to car or person)!

[ItsHectic]

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

glory or death (to car or person)!

LOL that would make an awesome bumper sticker.

[RimasRS]

Tracking 1M you will also need upgrades. It's still dd car you can't have it all...
Like brakes which can't be very good on track and dd

[masetcp]

honestly, the whole"tracking your car" means that you have to dump a LOT of money into your car. pads,oil change,tranny change, dif oil, every session. tires maybe will last you 3 sessions.

i think the best track car is a cheaper car that replacement parts are cheap. im talkin miata, 240sx.

s2000 motors and trannys go for almost 5,000 bucks if you blow something.

but if i had the money i would track something expensive lol.

[Robink]

Originally Posted by RiefferD

My car prior to my 1er was a Subaru Sti, which I used to track frequently. I found out early that I would need to change the entire suspension, install larger sway bars, get sticker tires, group n top hats, stiffer bushings, and a big brake kit.

I say this because, most cars at our price point will require an additional investment if you wish for it to perform like a super car at the track. If our cars came with those items, it would no longer be a 135i, it would be a m3 - and cost just as much. I don't think Bmw had the 'track' in mind when it built the car. Most 135i owners will never track their car - so they built it for 'most of us'. The good thing though is that it comes with a motor that is entirely tunable and it's waaaay easy to increase the horsepower with a minimum investment. Look at it this way, if you are willing to invest 10k-15k, you can build a car that will compete with cars that cost 3 times as much as yours.

I agree with you 100%. If the OP thought the 135i wasn't a 'track car' then he shouldn't even look at a Subaru. My brother has a 2011 WRX Sedan and after 2-3 laps had to come into the pits due to brake fade and some jerking at WOT. I did 7 laps and decided to give the car a break as the modded 335i that I overtook had to come in after 5 laps (due to heat soak) so decided to play it 'safe'. I think the 135i is just fantastic for what it was built for. If you want a track car buy a track car or turn it into a track car.

[FactorX81]

I don't think they(BMW) actually sell track cars. Even in the M sections of the forum everyone talks about swapping suspension brakes etc. The M cars have higher limits but will still require mods to be tracked seriously.

[Robink]

Originally Posted by FactorX81

I don't think they(BMW) actually sell track cars. Even in the M sections of the forum everyone talks about swapping suspension brakes etc. The M cars have higher limits but will still require mods to be tracked seriously.

Exactly! If you want a track car buy a Lotus Elise/Exige/Evora or Porsche 911 or Cayman (which is evidently 2 seconds slower than a 135i manual according to Fifth Gear). Good luck in squeezing in some passengers.