Finally In: Sportauto BMW 1M Coupe Nurburgring Time - 8:15

[techthentic]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

The Elise is go-cartish, not the 1M (or any BMW for that matter). I find it funny that people compare the 1M Coupe to a go-kart. It's only a go-kart relative to the 7 series.

Agreed, that's why I didn't even consider a M3. A pig through and through.

[ciomas]

just something i came acros today:

[Advevo]

The mirror has already fallen off.

LOL

[pyrat]

1M beats Porsche Cayman S!? Nice. And Audi RS3!? Nice. I do not care, nor am surprised that it loses to the M3 (cup + tires). For $47K you can get yourself a real contender, I am jealous of those who will get one. Bravo BMW

[vladberca]

That Megane RS Trophy is stripped out and track oriented, something like M3 GTS...
I don t know if M Division took into consideration an 1M GTS, but it would be intersting to see at least one demo car like they have done with that E60 M5

[1mGator]

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

haha...very nice. too bad she's on the p-car camp now...but still love her. My other crush is vicky butler...

i too name my cars...my daughter got the last say "umicar" from team umizoomi.

OK .... I like both your thoughts but how do you explain this obsession to your wives

I wonder if anyone has asked Sabine to take one around the ring for a spin ...... hmmmm, where do we send special "ring taxi 1M driver" requests?!

[Echo M3]

2 quick points I'd like to make:

1.) Wow. The difference between the two is larger than I expected. What many of you seem to not understand is that the difference between Michelin pilot sports and Cup + tires is not as large as you may think. Add to this the fact that the Nurburgring is a course with mainly high speed corners, and you begin to realize that mechanical grip and traction play a lesser role than most courses. This goes to show how impressive the M3 still is, 4 years after production started.

2.) It is hilarious to see the 1 series/ 1M owners constantly attempting to compare their cars to the M3. They are different cars, and thus will excel in different areas. The M3 is a sports sedan , the 1M is a effectively a 2-seater. They are, however, NOT that different when it comes to weight. 300 lbs is less than the difference between an E92 and an E93; I can't imagine how this weight difference and a shorter wheelbase transforms the car into a 'go-kart'.

[aus135i]

Originally Posted by vladberca

That Megane RS Trophy is stripped out and track oriented, something like M3 GTS...

i don't remember the M3 GTS has aircon and sound system and that Trophy seats 5 and is not stripped at all...

love my BMWs but that time on an FF...

[EmmDrei]

I read the full article in print this morning.

I honestly don't care about the laptime, but I think he is talking bs when it comes to the suspension. Driving the ring, my 1M bottomed out on three parts of the track. So why should it make sense to give it a softer suspension setup? And why harder stabelizers? To me the cars setup is fine for the Nordschleife as is. When you compare the track data graphic they provide (I'll scan the one for the 1M on Monday if nobody else does it in the meantime), then the 1M pulls higher Gs than the M3 in almost every corner. That alone is proof enough that the setup can't be bad.

The big difference between the M3 and the 1M on the Nordschleife is the feel of ease. The M3 feels very settled and safe on the Nürburgring even if you push it hard. That's why so many Porsche GT3s lose out to the M3 on the ring. On paper an M3 doesn't stand a chance against a GT3 on the Nordschleife. In reality it depends on the driver. It is relatively easy to drive an M3 fast. A GT3 is a completely different story. The 1M is different also. You have to work to be fast and you are closer to the edge. Basically that is what the author also writes (in the full German article). But he blames it on the suspension setup and states BMW could have done better, that is where I disagree.

Actually I think Horst von Saurma (the author and driver) reached his personal limit in the 1M and he would have been faster driving in MDM than with DSC off.

[Franklin Joseph]

Originally Posted by pman10

2 quick points I'd like to make:

1.) Wow. The difference between the two is larger than I expected. What many of you seem to not understand is that the difference between Michelin pilot sports and Cup + tires is not as large as you may think. Add to this the fact that the Nurburgring is a course with mainly high speed corners, and you begin to realize that mechanical grip and traction play a lesser role than most courses. This goes to show how impressive the M3 still is, 4 years after production started.
.

and how would you know the difference? have you done back to back testing between the 2 tires? at the ring? if not, stop making assumptions...the only way to know is if Sports Auto does another test with the same tires...otherwise everything is just assumptions, which means nothing.

1M owners do not compare againsts the M3...at least i do not...they are different cars...if i wanted a bigger more comfortable car, i would have gotten the M3. Its the M3 owners who are quick to come to defense when magazines compare the 2 cars.

just let it go...they are 2 different cars, and the 10 second difference it NOT a valid comparison because of the tires!

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

here we go again...yet another pissing match.

have you driven the 1M yet? if not, how would you know its not go-kart like?

having owned 2 e30m3s and now have the 1M, i wouldnt call it the new e30m3, but its pretty close...it only lacks the history of the e30 m3!

1) I have driven it twice

2) I have driven an E30 M3

3) The 1M feels like a pig compared to the E30 M3. There's a lot more than history that separates them.

Originally Posted by pman10

2 quick points I'd like to make:

1.) Wow. The difference between the two is larger than I expected. What many of you seem to not understand is that the difference between Michelin pilot sports and Cup + tires is not as large as you may think. Add to this the fact that the Nurburgring is a course with mainly high speed corners, and you begin to realize that mechanical grip and traction play a lesser role than most courses. This goes to show how impressive the M3 still is, 4 years after production started.

2.) It is hilarious to see the 1 series/ 1M owners constantly attempting to compare their cars to the M3. They are different cars, and thus will excel in different areas. The M3 is a sports sedan , the 1M is a effectively a 2-seater. They are, however, NOT that different when it comes to weight. 300 lbs is less than the difference between an E92 and an E93; I can't imagine how this weight difference and a shorter wheelbase transforms the car into a 'go-kart'.

+1

[vito747]

sweet

Originally Posted by M12Power

As far as I’m concerned, the only true M engine is the turbocharged, 1.5 liter inline-4 M12 that propelled Nelson Piquet to his 2nd WDC, because it’s still the only BMW engine that has won a title in F1.

[Aussie_in_London]

Originally Posted by pman10

2 quick points I'd like to make:

1.) Wow. The difference between the two is larger than I expected. What many of you seem to not understand is that the difference between Michelin pilot sports and Cup + tires is not as large as you may think. Add to this the fact that the Nurburgring is a course with mainly high speed corners, and you begin to realize that mechanical grip and traction play a lesser role than most courses. This goes to show how impressive the M3 still is, 4 years after production started.

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you there based on my own experience.

I don't currently own neither a 1M or M3 but have made number of visits to the Nurburgring in my stripped out astra opc and having ran both pilot sport 2's and toyo r888's which are a cheaper but near as affective track day tyre compared with the pilot cups, I can say there is a considerable difference in the 2 cornering speeds and my overall lap performance, and many others I know who visit regularly are of the same opinion, but then that's my opinion based on my experience of driving the nordschleife with both a road and a cup type track tyre.............. I wouldn't go back on a road tyre, its like chalk and cheese.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you there based on my own experience.

I don't currently own neither a 1M or M3 but have made number of visits to the Nurburgring in my stripped out astra opc and having ran both pilot sport 2's and toyo r888's which are a cheaper but near as affective track day tyre compared with the pilot cups, I and can say there is a considerable difference in the 2 cornering speeds and my overall lap performance and many others I know who visit regularly are of the same opinion, but then that's my opinion based on my experience of driving the nordschleife with both a road and a cup type track tyre.............. I wouldn't go back on a road tyre, its like chalk and cheese.

Agree on that one. Look at what a difference tires made to the Corvette's Nurburgring time.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by Franklin Joseph

and how would you know the difference? have you done back to back testing between the 2 tires? at the ring? if not, stop making assumptions...the only way to know is if Sports Auto does another test with the same tires...otherwise everything is just assumptions, which means nothing.

1M owners do not compare againsts the M3...at least i do not...they are different cars...if i wanted a bigger more comfortable car, i would have gotten the M3. Its the M3 owners who are quick to come to defense when magazines compare the 2 cars.

just let it go...they are 2 different cars, and the 10 second difference it NOT a valid comparison because of the tires!

I am basing it on my personal track experience. I have experience with R-compound as well as street tires. You, sir, are the one making the assumption - the assumption that I am talking out of my ***.

[BimmerJim]

Originally Posted by pman10

I am basing it on my personal track experience. I have never been to the Nurburgring, but I have run with both sets of tires before on a track.

I am not making an assumption, I am making a rational conclusion based upon my personal experience and the data (laptimes) that we have with us. You, sir, are the one making the assumption - the assumption that I am talking out of my ***.

The Ring is like no other track in the world. It did not get the nickname of Green Hell for nothing. I do agree that you cannot compare the 1M and the M3 to each other; however, I my humble opinion, track times on the Ring and track times on other tracks cannot be compared. I may be wrong:

[BMWBoss]

How fast does the 135 do it?

[techthentic]

Originally Posted by pman10

I am basing it on my personal track experience. I have experience with R-compound as well as street tires. You, sir, are the one making the assumption - the assumption that I am talking out of my ***.

No one's assuming you're talking out of your ass. You are CLEARLY talking out of your ass. For someone to say that there's hardly a difference between street tires and r-compounds, you must be a seriously awful driver.

And your previous comment about weight difference. Do you know how hard it is to lose 300 pounds on a vehicle? That's why they say the easiest weight savings is with the driver. (Also e93 is about 450lbs heavier than a e92)

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by BMWBoss

How fast does the 135 do it?

Not sure if Sportauto ever tested the 135 on the Nordschleife but Fastestlaps.com reports a time of 8:39.20 for the 135.

[princefemi]

I am definitely going to buy one of those Z4M roadsters one of these days. Plenty fast, lighter than these porkers BMW has been making lately, and most important they are becoming more affordable for me

Originally Posted by ZED4Mjjl

8:15 matches the E85 M Roadster pretty good for a coupe, but was expecting more from the power available. Both cars are close in weight.

[M3 Adjuster]

I don't think that street tires are anywhere near "R" except possibly on the smallest of autocross courses. It's just simple physics... on anything from a moderate size autocross course up to a mid size race track, R tires gain seconds a lap. On a course like the Norschleife, I am sure it's many seconds of differnence... Someone mentioned that the Corvette made a major gain through switching tires and some minor spring rate adjustments...


As far as go kartish handling... that's a relative term.

Does a 1M have as razor sharp a handling a an Elise? From what I understand, clearly no, but for a previous poster to say that he likes more go kartish handling cars, particularly when compared to an E9x M3.... That is certainly a valid statement.

Anyone that has driven an E9x M3 and also the 1M will tell you... The 1M *is* a go-kart, in comparison..... the key is the shorter wheelbase... with an assist from being on a several hundred pound diet.... all with a better steering rack feel as the cherry on top.

Another person put it succinctly... The 1M is a sports car... The M3 is a sports sedan/GT. Both are awesome in their own right....
I personally want a nimble, lighter, shorter wheelbase car.... the 1M fits the bill for me. It's not an E30 M3... there will probably never be another car from BMW that handles like the E30 M3... but the 1M has nimble steering and handling, reminiscent of the E30 M3... and gobs of torque to boot.... which is pretty much the only thing the E30 M3 didn't have, even the 2.5L motor.

I can't wait to get a 1M in my garage.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by IGoFast1589

The 1M is simply not a Nurburgring car. It's powerband, wheelbase and overall design make it a snappy little torque monster that excels on tighter tracks and quick directional changes. The M3 is longer and more stable and that's exactly what the ring is all about.

Actually that is not correct.

While it is certainly true that a car with less weight and shorter wheelbase has better specs for shorter, more windy tracks - such as the Hockenheimring - this does not disqualify it at all for the Nürburgring.

The 1M's wheelbase is not far off from the E46M wheelbase, which is one of the cars that you can see most often used at the 'Ring. Compared to quite a number of other cars - Lotus for example that you can also see there quite often - it even has a longer wheelbase. I haven't verified this but I would be surprised if most of the Porsches have longer wheelbases than the 1M.

Its powerband actually is ideal for the 'Ring, as something that you really need there is torque. Anyone who has ever driven there will tell you that - there are so many altitude differences, i.e. where you have to drive up steep inclines that torque is absolutely essential. Which is why a turbo car is in some of the sections better off than a natural aspirated one.

I don't really know where you believe that the design comes into this equation - I'm not really a fan of the 1M design, and from an aerodynamic perspective it's not really ideal, but these considerations are not of such big importance on the 'Ring. The topspeed on the Döttinger Höhe may be lower, that is certainly true.

I think that for its power output the 1M performed extremely well, although I have some doubts whether it actually has "only" 340hp (press cars are known to be very healthy power-wise). With cup tires it would have come even closer to the M3, which is quite admirable.

Originally Posted by IGoFast1589

They probably commented on the the suspension being less than ideal for the ring because of too much bump dampening causing the car to side step over bumps when loaded into a corner and the intrusive bump stops.

It was the opposite actually.

For the Northloop (Nordschleife) which is a very old circuit that goes up and down and has quite a few bumps in it, you need a suspension that is more compliant than for modern tracks like the Hockenheimring or the Grand Prix circuit at the Nürburgring. Otherwise your car will jump around too much, thus destabilising its suspension and making it slower.

As a consequence, had the 1M a more compliant suspension that could dampen the various bumps better, it would have gone even faster around that track.

sport auto made the same comment about the M3 GTS, by the way, which also would have made an even better 'Ring time with a different suspension setup.

Alpina_B3_Lux