autox classing and setup

[tuj]

Hi guys:

Where do you feel the 135i is the most competitive in SCCA autox? What setups are you guys running?

Seems like the choices are DS or BSP?

I'm coming over from driving a RX-8 in BS and a NA Miata in ES.

[Ginger_Extract]

It depends on your region, and how much money you want to invest in the car. Locally, I could run DS and have minimal competition as it's not a very popular class. I'm in STU at the moment getting my ass handed to me by the nationals-level guys in Subarus. I'll be switching to a regional-specific class that's more fun, and quite popular: SM-S (Street Mod- Street Tire).
In either of your cases, you'll be running race rubber to be top of the heap, so with that in mind, my vote goes to DS.

[tuj]

I've never really looked at any of the SM/ST classes that closely, I've always driven in stock class with Kumho V710's.

What street tires are you running? What's your setup look like?

[blutattoo]

I run STU and luckily not that many Evo's and STI's in my area autox so I'm usually first or second in class. I think for most regions DS will be a more competitive area for a 135. Especially with some Star Specs, RE-11's, or R-S3's. In my region we don't have any other classes besides prepared so I'm stuck with DS or STU, and since I have a bbk I go right to STU. The car does OK, but only because my class is small. I admit a driver mod might make it even more competitive though.

[sodara]

D stock with some really good shocks. Also, I'm hearing a lot of good things about the BFG Rivals.

B or A street prepared?? eh..gotta check the rule book again.

[tuj]

I'm starting to think DS with some nice shocks and V710 rubber (unless the V710 has been surpassed...I've been out of competition for a few years now.)

What shocks are guys running in DS? How about tire setup, what front and rear sizes are you guys running?

How about a front sway? On my BS RX-8, I added a Racing Beat front sway and it really helped the slalom sections, but did turn the car into having more under-steer.

[Hops128i]

there are some interesting changes being proposed for stock classes, I really hope this happens, (camber plates, and higher tread rated tires)

http://www.solomatters.com/2013/03/street-catagory-proposal-explained/

[tuj]

Hops: Wow those are some HUGE changes for the "stock" class (which I never really considered to be 'stock' anyway, considering I was competing against TRAIlLERED cars!)

I'm really confused as to where to put my thoughts in terms of developing the car for a particular class.

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by tuj

Hops: Wow those are some HUGE changes for the "stock" class (which I never really considered to be 'stock' anyway, considering I was competing against TRAIlLERED cars!)

I'm really confused as to where to put my thoughts in terms of developing the car for a particular class.

yeah, I don't have much advice on classing, I'm fairly new to autocross, and want to keep my mods to minimum. I've been running mostly in the road tire RWD class where you must use tires with a 140 tread rating or better on OEM sized wheels. The timing is PAX adjusted to the stock class (DS for the 128i and 135i)
http://www.gotcone.com/blog/2013-sol...index-851.html

I like the road tire class, but our camber challenged cars really wear the outside edges of the front tires, that's why I really like the proposed changes to the stock classes. I'd imagine camber plates could stretch out the life of tires, and pay for themselves quickly, and of course relieve some understeer. But, some have told me, not to plan of these proposed changes as they might not happen.

[tuj]

I ran my RX-8 in B-stock on Dunlop SuperSport race R-compounds and ran a 95M Miata in ES on V710's, came in 2nd in the Midwest regions in BS. Took an Evo school with Danny Popp.

Just not sure where to put this car. I want to do the M3 suspension arms front and rear, not even sure if that bumps me to BSP or if I can run an ST-class like that?

I've been away from the game for a few years.

[NJ Drive]

Hello,
I'll be running a 128i in STX next year so I've been lurking, and decided to join the forum.

Just to keep you guys/gals up to date, 2013 may be the last year that R-comps are allowed in Stock(with the exception of Super Stock).

For 2014, the current Stock will be changed to 'Street' to reflect the miminum 140 treadwear rule. The 128i and 135i will be placed in F Street while the 1M moves from A Stock to B Street.

All 1 series are currently classed in ASP for those who want to run in Street Prepared.

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by NJ Drive

Hello,
I'll be running a 128i in STX next year so I've been lurking, and decided to join the forum.

Just to keep you guys/gals up to date, 2013 may be the last year that R-comps are allowed in Stock(with the exception of Super Stock).

For 2014, the current Stock will be changed to 'Street' to reflect the miminum 140 treadwear rule. The 128i and 135i will be placed in F Street while the 1M moves from A Stock to B Street.

All 1 series are currently classed in ASP for those who want to run in Street Prepared.

Where'd you find the future car classifications for the 128/135/1M? (Curious if there's a full listing somewhere)

[NJ Drive]

Originally Posted by Xaeryan

Where'd you find the future car classifications for the 128/135/1M? (Curious if there's a full listing somewhere)

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...20Minutes1.pdf

This is version #3 of the new 'Street' class proposal.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by NJ Drive

Hello,
I'll be running a 128i in STX next year so I've been lurking, and decided to join the forum.

Just to keep you guys/gals up to date, 2013 may be the last year that R-comps are allowed in Stock(with the exception of Super Stock).

For 2014, the current Stock will be changed to 'Street' to reflect the miminum 140 treadwear rule. The 128i and 135i will be placed in F Street while the 1M moves from A Stock to B Street.

All 1 series are currently classed in ASP for those who want to run in Street Prepared.

Won't that make the new for 2013 RT-R/A/F classes redundant, or were they just a transitional class for these 2014 rules? If that's the case, I'll put the JB4 on bypass for AutoX and run the stock classes until I eventually do shocks and camber plates...

[NJ Drive]

Well, the supposed intention of the Road Tire classes was to gauge how popular street-tire shod Stock class cars would be in competition.

Members have been blind-sided by the newly proposed rules for next year. RT will go away, Street will replace Stock, 140 treadwear and up for 2014, 200 treadwear and up in 2015.

I ran my Evo X in RTA last year to support RT, but do not believe it is fair for Stock class competitors to be stripped of R-comps. IMO, they should have extended the move at least until 2015.

One thing is certain... there will be plenty of growth in ST, SP, and SM!

[tuj]

So......this still begs the question: where does the 135i best fit? Where would it be most competitive?

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by NJ Drive

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...20Minutes1.pdf

This is version #3 of the new 'Street' class proposal.

I see V3 did away with the camber allowance. I suspected as much. So it's basically back to 2013 rules, but with phased in 200TWR tires, +/- 1" wheel diameter, and reshuffling of the classes... for now.

[NJ Drive]

Originally Posted by tuj

So......this still begs the question: where does the 135i best fit? Where would it be most competitive?

I can see the 135i doing well in F Street next year. Looking at the eligible cars for that class, the strongest ones look like the 1 series, 3 series, E46 M3, Shelby Mustang, 2011+ Mustang GT and V6, and Hyundai Genesis.
This would also be the cheapest class to run in by far!!

The 135i could very well be a contender in STU since it would really wake up with bushings/arms/camber and an allowed max of 285mm tires.

You'd be up against the E36 M3, 2004-2007 STIs, 2003-2006 Evos. I love seeing diversity in classes(for a long time STU was spec Evo/STI) and hope to see a repeat like last year(an E36 M3 won Nationals). I used to compete in that class with an Evo IX RS and a 2004 STi.

I'd also love to see someone go whole-hog prep with an ASP or SM build using a 1 series one day. I might be that guy!

[NJ Drive]

Originally Posted by Xaeryan

I see V3 did away with the camber allowance. I suspected as much. So it's basically back to 2013 rules, but with phased in 200TWR tires, +/- 1" wheel diameter, and reshuffling of the classes... for now.

Yes.

I know a ton of strut cars would have greatly benefited by the proposed camber allowances. It sounded good on paper but the implementation and policing afterwards would have proven to be monumental(too many variables) and doesn't quite fit the 'keep it simple' mold that Stock is and Street will continue to be.

[Hops128i]

That's too bad on the removal of camber allowances, i was getting ready to buy camber plates! Do camber plates make a big difference in performance? I was more wanting them to manage front tire wear.

I wish there was an allowance on wheel diameter, I was hoping to have a easily rotatable square setup.

So, while we don't need r-comps to be competitive, there isn't anything i read in the in the proposal that makes it easy to manage tire wear.

[NJ Drive]

Originally Posted by Hops128i

That's too bad on the removal of camber allowances, i was getting ready to buy camber plates! Do camber plates make a big difference in performance? I was more wanting them to manage front tire wear.

I wish there was an allowance on wheel diameter, I was hoping to have a easily rotatable square setup.

So, while we don't need r-comps to be competitive, there isn't anything i read in the in the proposal that makes it easy to manage tire wear.

Well, you could have a square setup if you'd opt for using 7" wide wheels like those that come stock on the 128i. Also with the new +/-1" diameter rule, you would be able to run 16" x 7", 17" x 7", or 18" x 7".

As far as tire wear goes, street tires are leaps and bounds easier on the wallet than Hoosiers. I've been running Dunlop Z1s and Yokohama AD08s for years in competition as well as on my daily drivers.

For 2013 I've been switching back and forth between BF Goodrich Rivals and the new Dunlop Z2s on several S2000s that I co-drive.

The Dunlops and Yokohamas are tires that you can get away with pinching on a narrow wheel on a heavy car and still maintain good feedback and good shoulder wear characteristics. The Rivals and Hankook RS-3 respond better using one or more sizes narrower comparatively(e.g. 245/40/17 over a 255/40/17 on a 9" wheel).

Camber plates would have made a huge difference in handling and wear since it's been said you can't get over an abysmal -0.5° of camber in the front of these cars stock. Eeesh.

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by NJ Drive

Well, you could have a square setup if you'd opt for using 7" wide wheels like those that come stock on the 128i. Also with the new +/-1" diameter rule, you would be able to run 16" x 7", 17" x 7", or 18" x 7".

As far as tire wear goes, street tires are leaps and bounds easier on the wallet than Hoosiers. I've been running Dunlop Z1s and Yokohama AD08s for years in competition as well as on my daily drivers.

For 2013 I've been switching back and forth between BF Goodrich Rivals and the new Dunlop Z2s on several S2000s that I co-drive.

The Dunlops and Yokohamas are tires that you can get away with pinching on a narrow wheel on a heavy car and still maintain good feedback and good shoulder wear characteristics. The Rivals and Hankook RS-3 respond better using one or more sizes narrower comparatively(e.g. 245/40/17 over a 255/40/17 on a 9" wheel).

Camber plates would have made a huge difference in handling and wear since it's been said you can't get over an abysmal -0.5° of camber in the front of these cars stock. Eeesh.

dang, i meant to say wheel width difference, but you got that.

But if my staggered wheel setup (with sport package) is 7", 7.5" i really can just go 7" all around?

What do you think of the Rivals vs Z2's?