US MSRP for US Delivery PLUS Military Pricing

[kurichan]

Apologists.

[~AJ]

Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx

Or a unique spelling.

Badgwhore© -- Collect all five! While Supplies Last.

Maybe? Haha, nevermind. :redface:

Or use trendy internet intentional misspelling:

Bagdehwore

Badgewhoer

Bdagewhore

For the ultimate: Teh Badgehwore

[xspeedy]

Originally Posted by bimmernet

2.) The 135i is a Coupe (not a Sedan) and it’s a Twin Turbo 135i so compare to a 335i (not a 328i Sedan but the 2007 335i Coupe which has a List Base Price at $40.800 ( not including Destination per Edmonds.com). That puts the difference at $5,900 not $3,000 or even less than I’ve seen some people quote on this forum. And since we are talking 2007 price it’s possible BMW could raise the price in January as they have been known to do, which could spread the gap even more by the time the Spring roll-out for the 135i happens. The option prices are about the same as the 335i Coupe except the Premium Package is $750 more and the Sport Package is $100 less. Part of $750 difference for the Premium Package is due to the fact the 335i has 8 Way Power Front Driver and Passenger Seats Standard while the 135i has Manual Front Seat Adjustment as Standard. If you get the Power Front Seats separately in the 135i you’ll pay $995 though. Also, one offset is the 335i comes with the 7.1 Surround Sound as Standard whereas the 135i asks for $875 for the Premium Audio system.


:roundel:

Yes, the price difference on paper is $5K, but again, one needs to compare similarly equipped models. As you mentioned, the 335 has power seats and premium sound standard. That is almost $2K there. So the net difference is closer to $3K.

I think the perceived premium for the 1 is going towards the add on bits like the M body kit. Remember how expensive the ZHP packaged 330i was compared to a standard issue? All for a couple more HP and bling?

[1ster]

Originally Posted by xspeedy

As you mentioned, the 335 has power seats and premium sound standard. That is almost $2K there. So the net difference is closer to $3K.

But some of us don't want those options, so there's no gain for us.

Plus the 135i has the fancy Brembo brakes. Wonder how much those would cost if they were optional on the 335i? At least a grand? So the price difference, for me, is actually $6,000.

[bimmernet]

Originally Posted by xspeedy

Yes, the price difference on paper is $5K, but again, one needs to compare similarly equipped models. As you mentioned, the 335 has power seats and premium sound standard. That is almost $2K there. So the net difference is closer to $3K.

I think the perceived premium for the 1 is going towards the add on bits like the M body kit. Remember how expensive the ZHP packaged 330i was compared to a standard issue? All for a couple more HP and bling?

I think you really under rated the ZHP option. If you looked only at the HP and Torque gains it didn’t pencil but like many things in life the sum of the parts was great than the total taken individually. When you compared the Standard E46 330i adding the Premium and Sport Packages and the Optional 18” M-Sport Wheels (which approximated what the ZHP Package would include) it priced out within $500 and was notably quicker (0.6 second to 60 mph), IMHO handled nearly as well (more neutral on initial turn in) as the M3 but rode much better. I also thought the steering was better (I had an E46 M3 ZCP at the time) because it had a “finer” turn. I positioned it to my clients as 80% of an M3 for about 20% less. If you look at what came in the package it was pretty impressive and like I said the sum of the parts…

ZHP Performance Package includes:
· Engine mods (new camshafts, electronics, & lighter flywheel) for 10HP & 8 ft/lb of torque increase & 6800 max RPM (from 6500).
· 6 speed short throw shifter
· 3.07:1 Final drive ratio (instead of 2.91:1)
· Max Speed Limiter set to 155 mph (instead of 128)
· M suspension which provided a more neutral balance
· Lower ride height by 15 mm (.6 inches) utilizing shorter auxiliary springs
-.5 degrees of camber
· Quicker steering ratio
· Firmer springs (front +6%, rear +8%)
· Firmer shocks (Jounce: front +50%, rear +20%), (Rebound: front +35%, rear -8%)
· Larger diameter anti-roll bars: 23.5 mm front (v. 23.0), 18.5 mm rear (v. 18.0)
· More rigid forward bushings
· BMW M exterior trim elements (front & rear fascia, side sills, & trunk lid spoiler)
· Special exterior trim: Anthracite (charcoal) headlight & foglight surrounds, High-Gloss
· Shadowline (black gloss) trim
· Larger diameter stainless steel dual exhaust outlets
· Extra thick Alcantra steering wheel
· Sport Seats
· Alcantra & Cloth upholstry to replace leatherette and standard trim
· Choice of package specific "Black Cube" or "Silver Cube" aluminum trim
· Anthracite headliner
· Red needles on the instrument cluster
· Unique 18" Wheels (style 135M), 18x8.0" front, 18x8.5" rear
· Wider Tires: 225/40ZR-18 in front and 255/35ZR-18 in the rear.

Frankly at the time, if they had offered SMG on the ZHP option I would have gotten it instead of the M3. And before it looks like we’re entirely off topic here; the 135i with the Brembos, the M Body kit, the 18’s etc. is a BMW with ZHP like package already installed but this time they used the old hot rodders trick to develop significant power gains. Instead of tuning a smaller engine (which if the Tii rumors are true will have an intricate (read expensive) Turbo 4 banger along the lines of the E30 M3 but turbo charged), they dropped in the equivalent of a V8 (like MB did in my C55) with the N54 for big torque and power without any additional tuning expense. I guess if I was still selling BMW’s I’d position the 135I as 90% of am E92 M3 for about 35% less money. If someone wants to do the math their way and argue about the percentages, be my guest, I was an Art Major.

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by larryn

Please show me that one document that says that. I was looking for it for a while, but remember seeing something like that. Every other other document doesn't mention the oili cooler as only available as part of the sports package... I am getting the sports package anyway, but I sincerely hope you're wrong for those who won't opt for that package. I'm guess that document was mistaken, just like a lot of the earlier document's details.

huh.. maybe your right, im talking to a rep today but chances are he wont have a clue.. (they tend to know the big pic and no detail) but i thought that this was the case.. :iono:

[The 1]

About what I was expecting to pay. I was hoping that it would end up at $35k with my options, but no matter. I'm still on board to pick up my 135i from the showroom in Germany.

I'm glad we're weeding out the people who want cheap power. Go find yourselves a used SRT-4...

[hector]

Originally Posted by 128er

well this is probably my last post...now i guess ill go to VTEC.Net

no need to feel that bad; i'm not so sure that a 2600lb. civic 5-speed or the 2900lb si. 6-speed is that much less ftd than the 3000+lb. 128, fwd notwithstanding. i wouldn't be looking at the accord coupe however; per the vtec.neters( for what it's worth) the civic blows away the bloated accord as far as ftd is concerned.

[Khobin~]

Originally Posted by bimmernet

...but this time they used the old hot rodders trick to develop significant power gains. Instead of tuning a smaller engine (which if the Tii rumors are true will have an intricate (read expensive) Turbo 4 banger along the lines of the E30 M3 but turbo charged), they dropped in the equivalent of a V8 (like MB did in my C55) with the N54 for big torque and power without any additional tuning expense. I guess if I was still selling BMW’s I’d position the 135I as 90% of am E92 M3 for about 35% less money. If someone wants to do the math their way and argue about the percentages, be my guest, I was an Art Major.

How is an I-6 twin turbo, the equivilant of dropping in a V8, without any additional tuning expense?....

You're talking about a Direct injection, high compression, motor running 2 turbos, and putting out 100+ hp/L...seems a little more complicated then a 572 Chevy, where it's more like 60-70 hp/L out of the crate, :iono:

What's the big deal about a 4 cyl. turbo...just means you'd need probably 15-20+ lbs of boost to get the same power out of it...and that in turn would mean less room for aftermarket tuners, more heat, and shorter engine life(probably).

[timmerweb]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

It will be interesting to see what the Canadian price is.

I'm guessing 44,200 for base 135 here. That's my bet based roughly on BMW's current US-Canada currency conversion.


-Tim

[1ster]

Originally Posted by larryn

Please show me that one document that says that.

I think most of us are basing this position on two things:

1. The Sport Pack does not include upgraded tires, so what explains the increased speed limit?

2. This post lists the oil cooler as being part of the Sport Pack, and so far everything TheUltimateDriver posted has been 100% accurate.

[cracka]

Originally Posted by 1ster

<snip> so far everything TheUltimateDriver posted has been 100% accurate.

Everything except this:

Nov 16th - Build your own will be available on BMW USA, Coupe & Convertible

[1ster]

Originally Posted by cracka

Nov 16th - Build your own will be available on BMW USA, Coupe & Convertible

Hahaha. Indeed. :frown:

[PDZ01]

Please stop comparing the 135i or 128i to anything that Honda makes. Hondas are great cars, but can not be compared to BMW. Look at it this way: you either want Front wheel drive or rear wheel drive. The only exception is the S2000. I had a 2004 but I need something with a back seat so I already reserved a 135i.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by 1ster

I think most of us are basing this position on two things:

1. The Sport Pack does not include upgraded tires, so what explains the increased speed limit?

2. This post lists the oil cooler as being part of the Sport Pack, and so far everything TheUltimateDriver posted has been 100% accurate.

Same thread has TheUltimateDriver posting this:

Originally Posted by TheUltimateDriver

*Note: Remember folks that this information is Preliminary.
There is a chance something(s) could change.

Btw, the asterisk and bolding are from him/her, not me.

Everything else we have seen (even coming from BMW themselves) does not mention the oil cooler as part of the ZSP for the 135i, not to mention newer info that would obviously supercede previously released preliminary info.

[bimmernet]

Originally Posted by Khobin~

How is an I-6 twin turbo, the equivilant of dropping in a V8, without any additional tuning expense?....

You're talking about a Direct injection, high compression, motor running 2 turbos, and putting out 100+ hp/L...seems a little more complicated then a 572 Chevy, where it's more like 60-70 hp/L out of the crate, :iono:

What's the big deal about a 4 cyl. turbo...just means you'd need probably 15-20+ lbs of boost to get the same power out of it...and that in turn would mean less room for aftermarket tuners, more heat, and shorter engine life(probably).

My thought on “hot rodding” encompasses more than substituting small motors for big block Detroit V8’s. It also includes fitting vintage 911 engines into VW buses or E36 M3 motors into 2002’s. It’s using something out of the junkyard or as in BMW’s case in the 135i; an “off the shelf” 8.7 psi 18% increased hp I6 powering tens of thousands of 335i's and 535i's rather than engineering and building up a new low volume production exotic, highly stressed 15-20 psi I4. What’s the “big deal”? I can’t say now but I'm pretty sure if BMW does bring out the Tii with a newly designed, limited production motor of the M5 V10 or it’s derived M3 V8 ilk, it’ll cost a bit more than $34,900 and a large part of the cost will be in the motor. Just my 02 cents.

[1ster]

Originally Posted by larryn

Everything else we have seen (even coming from BMW themselves) does not mention the oil cooler as part of the ZSP for the 135i, not to mention newer info that would obviously supercede previously released preliminary info.

I think you make valid points, larryn, but then what explains the increased top speed with the Sport Pack?

[larryn]

Originally Posted by 1ster

I think you make valid points, larryn, but then what explains the increased top speed with the Sport Pack?

Them wanting to get another $1000 out of you, if you don't value the sport seats or shadowline trim. :biggrin:

Non-sport seating and chrome trim won't cause a limp-mode scenario, missing oil cooler will. It's been proven, and I would think that BMW doesn't want a repeat of the negative press that the otherwise highly praised 335i got.

[bimmernet]

Originally Posted by larryn

Them wanting to get another $1000 out of you, if you don't value the sport seats or shadowline trim. :biggrin:

Non-sport seating and chrome trim won't cause a limp-mode scenario, missing oil cooler will. It's been proven, and I would think that BMW doesn't want a repeat of the negative press that the otherwise highly praised 335i got.

I sold BMW's until 10/06 and the Sport Package always included a bump in the Speed Limiter whether it was a Coupe, Sedan or even an X5 and I doubt if that's changed.

Typically it's because the tire spec is higher in the Sport Package cars but it's also just part of how BMW sees their "enthusiasts buyers" not wanting their cars to be limited; especially thse that are tracked. However, the German Manufacturers also have a "Gentlemens Agreement" that cars produced for road use will have a 155 mph top speed. If you go to a tuner they will happily sell you an item that defeats it.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by bimmernet

I sold BMW's until 10/06 and the Sport Package always included a bump in the Speed Limiter whether it was a Coupe, Sedan or even an X5 and I doubt if that's changed.

Typically it's because the tire spec is higher in the Sport Package cars but it's also just part of how BMW sees their "enthusiasts buyers" not wanting their cars to be limited; especially thse that are tracked. However, the German Manufacturers also have a "Gentlemens Agreement" that cars produced for road use will have a 155 mph top speed. If you go to a tuner they will happily sell you an item that defeats it.

Hey! That's cool that you're a former CA. Maybe we can glean some pointers from you regarding trunk money and other incentives.

Check out this official document and look at the descriptions of the Sports Packages in the footnotes for the 128i and for the 135i. It's certainly looking like you only get a 155mph limiter on the 135i w/ZSP, and not at all with the 128i w/ZSP.

I've driven BMWs w/sports packages for the past 22 years, so I know the history of speed limiters, but it's good to note it here. Btw, the good folks in Stuttgart have been regularly exceeding the handshake agreement in the past few years, and I've heard it's in jeopardy. Also, it wasn't until the 2001 e46 330i and 330Ci w/ZSP that the speed limiter was increased to 155mph. The MY2000 e46 328's didn't have that.

[bimmernet]

Originally Posted by larryn

Hey! That's cool that you're a former CA. Maybe we can glean some pointers from you regarding trunk money and other incentives.

Check out this official document and look at the descriptions of the Sports Packages in the footnotes for the 128i and for the 135i. It's certainly looking like you only get a 155mph limiter on the 135i w/ZSP, and not at all with the 128i w/ZSP.

I've driven BMWs w/sports packages for the past 22 years, so I know the history of speed limiters, but it's good to note it here. Btw, the good folks in Stuttgart have been regularly exceeding the handshake agreement in the past few years, and I've heard it's in jeopardy. Also, it wasn't until the 2001 e46 330i and 330Ci w/ZSP that the speed limiter was increased to 155mph. The MY2000 e46 328's didn't have that.

Anything I can answer from the perspective of being inside the beast I'll do my best. I get a little bugged when I see dealers referred to as "stealers" and auto sales people as accomplished at very little more than ripping off innocent customers but since I'm not in the business any more I just count to ten and move on. The funny truth is the first lesson I was taught in the car business was; "buyers are liars". I hope that if I can provide some inside info to help my fellow enthusiasts be better informed consumers, it'll help counter both "dealers are stealers" and "buyers are liars".

The Speed Limiters are a bit inconsistent in their applications. And, well, how many Gentlemen are there to support "Gentlemen's Agreement" is anyone's guess.

I just heard from a colleague at work (in the office furnishings industry) that the Green Party in Germany (which is much more powerful than in the US) is getting a Speed Limit on the entire Autobahn system, beyond the restricted sub-urban and urban areas...anybody out there hear anything like that??? He said it was based on emissions reduction. If it's the true, it could have a negative impact on our beloved German performance car development.

Regards and Happy T-Day to all!

Bimmernet

[atr_hugo]

The speed-limit legislation on the currently unlimited portions of the Autobahn was being discussed and it was as much a 'Global Warming' (CO2 emissions) issue as anything else. The German Chancellor, Andrea Merkel, has poo-poohed the suggestion and she will have the votes in the Bundestag to keep that from becoming law. That's what I have heard.