Difficulty with Heel-Toe

[Kcyrusm]

Hey guys, I came from a couple Honda's (S2k and Integra) and have had no problems heel-toe'ing in them. I got so used to it, that I would heel-toe every turn needing braking. Now that I'm driving a BMW, I find myself over braking. The brakes in these cars are so much more sensitive! Anyone else have any problems with this or is it just me? I'd ask for advice, but I'm sure it's just going to come down to practice and getting used to the new car.

[pixelblue]

the oem brake pads have a strong initial bite. I would first change to a more linear track pad. pedal and steering wheel position on our car makes it more difficult but like you said practice, practice, practice...

[Lubo]

Out of all the cars I've driven this one is the easiest for me to heel-n-toe.

It took some practice to adjust to the car, but I love it now... Even got compliment from my instructor at last event.

[syenisch]

Are you truly heel and toe-ing? I found it more comfortable to brake with the left and middle of my foot and roll my foot to the right so that the right side blips the throttle.

[Lubo]

Originally Posted by syenisch

Are you truly heel and toe-ing? I found it more comfortable to brake with the left and middle of my foot and roll my foot to the right so that the right side blips the throttle.

I use the same method, to me heel and toe means blipping the throttle while braking.

[1erich]

Have you removed the clutch delay valve (CDV)? It helped for me.

[Evice]

heel and toe-ing isn't easy due to gas pedal not being sensitive enough. If you don't have a tune, or piggy back, revs dont come unless you really push the pedal.

Easiest heel n toe I have experienced was Porsche Cayman S. Pedal was so sensitive, I fell in love.

[vividracing]

I believe there are different interpretations on "heel and toe". As another poster pointed out, there's the 'rolling' your right foot onto the accelerator pedal, as opposed to actually pressing each pedal with the heel and toe of your foot.

Personally, I always preferred left foot braking. There's quite a bit of difference in the pedal positioning between cars, so I felt it was easier to focus on left foot braking.

Interesting thread, just wanted to add my $0.02 worth.

Graeme

[pixelblue]

Watch how its done by a master

[GaryS]

I think it's very easy to heel-toe in our cars, because the pedals are close together, and the gas pedal kind of angles under the brake, so I can keep my foot straighter than in other cars and just roll the side of my foot into the gas.

My last car (RX-8) had a small gas pedal hinged from above. It took me a little while to get used to the BMW gas pedal hinged at the floor, but it's actually easier.

[aisthetes]

Rohlr is amazing, no question.

Agree with the above: the gas pedal lacks the sensitivity of N/A cars you mention, so a more deliberate "blip" is needed to rev matchm and the CDV helped a bit. It took me mentally changing my inputs to get it down pat. Now when I drive a Porsche, I'm too aggressive on the throttle with heel-and-toe work. There's always a brief adjustment when switching cars.

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

Watch how its done by a master

This one makes me laugh, and is also by a master:

Racin' shoes? Nah, my penny loafers will do just fine, thank you.
Senna demonstrates the method of "heel-toeing" where you use the sides of your feet, the same method many of you use.

[pixelblue]

^ that was awesome! such a badass. his nephew is racing in F1. this weekend is the final race and it should be epic with alonso/webber/vettel/hamilton racing for the championship

[Xaeryan]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

^ that was awesome! such a badass. his nephew is racing in F1. this weekend is the final race and it should be epic with alonso/webber/vettel/hamilton racing for the championship

Hammy's only in with a long shot (i.e. both Red Bulls and Ferrari fail to score points). Bruno clearly didn't inherit Ayrton's driving skills, considering Klien schooled him the first time in the same car after being absent from the sport a few years. :-\

What is this F1 you speak of? ;-)
Can't wait for Abu Dhabi!

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

^ that was awesome! such a badass. his nephew is racing in F1. this weekend is the final race and it should be epic with alonso/webber/vettel/hamilton racing for the championship

+1000

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

Watch how its done by a master

great now I feel like crap for sucking so bad

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by Xaeryan

This one makes me laugh, and is also by a master:

Racin' shoes? Nah, my penny loafers will do just fine, thank you.
Senna demonstrates the method of "heel-toeing" where you use the sides of your feet, the same method many of you use.

+1000 for Senna, I'm Brazilian

it was actually very interesting to see the constant throttle blipping as he drove through the curves.. is that what we're supposed to be doing haha? or does it not work well in our cars?

[Evice]

it is not "blipping" in the context of heel n toe.... he is balancing the car with throttle imo.

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by Evice

it is not "blipping" in the context of heel n toe.... he is balancing the car with throttle imo.

right yeah thats what i meant. thought you're supposed to kepp constant acceleration and press the pedal gradually and smoothly as you come out of the apex, but he seems to constantly give the throttle these little punches as he's going through the curve..

[Evice]

I think he was doing that because he was driving on the limit of adhesion.

[JimD]

One thing I learned at M school is that the limit of adhesion is actually slipping a little. Maximum grip is 6-7% slip according to one of the instuctors. If you get a "hot lap" there they all slide a bit in the turns. But only a tiny amount.

Another thing that was interesting was listening to the DCT blip the throttle on downshifts. It did not seem to do it unless the rpms were several thousand and did it more obviously when you were up around red line. Just for practice, I do it pretty much on every downshift. I just blip it more when I am downshifting at higher rpm. It is also harder to do when you are doing maximum braking on a track than it is under much more casual driving on the street - at least it is for me. I need more time on a track.

Jim

[Evice]

Originally Posted by JimD

One thing I learned at M school is that the limit of adhesion is actually slipping a little. Maximum grip is 6-7% slip according to one of the instuctors. If you get a "hot lap" there they all slide a bit in the turns. But only a tiny amount.

That's quite right. If your butt isn't feeling a slipping on the track-out, it means you are not fast enough