Oil Cooler

[JD75]

Hi Gents,

I am very pleased to announce our REVISED group buy pricing,

on the ADVAN Performance, N54 "Complete Cooling Solution".

- The Stage 1 kit that features a 15 row "Setrab" oil cooler & "PWR" radiator will NOW be available for $1,445.00

- The Stage 2 kit that features the 20 row "Setrab" oil cooler & "PWR" radiator will be available for $1,795.00

Please note that the above pricing is exclusive of shipment.

We require a minimum of 5 purchasers to be able to offer this fantastic pricing.

1.

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Please PM me with your expression of interest or simply post in this thread.

Cheers.

[minijet]

Originally Posted by JD75

Hey minijet,

the final cost of the Stage 1 kit was not going to be simply determined by the cost of the thermostat.

We have been waiting on final pricing of the -10 oil housing adapter and the bracket fabrication.

Now that we have both we can calculate our revised group buy price.

To be honest guys,

I think you would be quite surprised how small the profit margin is on these kits.

Pete would love to be making more of a buck on the R&D he has put into this, he is running a business after all.

However our goal is to make available to the marketplace products of the highest quality, that are also affordable and truly excellent value for money.

Cheers,

JD.

?? ? all i asked for was the price of just the oil cooler option with thermo.
it wasnt a matter of cost/affordability as Peter recommended that for my purpose that i should just get the oil cooler.

Originally Posted by JD75

Hi Gents,

I am very pleased to announce our REVISED group buy pricing,

on the ADVAN Performance, N54 "Complete Cooling Solution".

- The Stage 1 kit that features a 15 row "Setrab" oil cooler will NOW be available for $1,445.00

- The Stage 2 kit that features the 20 row "Setrab" oil cooler will be available for $1,795.00

Please note that the above pricing is exclusive of shipment.

We require a minimum of 5 purchasers to be able to offer this fantastic pricing.

Please PM me with your expression of interest or simply post in this thread.

Cheers.

Im in but want as per my previous posts and calls the Advan just want a price for the oil cooler option with lower thermo.

[JD75]

Originally Posted by minijet

?? ? all i asked for was the price of just the oil cooler option with thermo.
it wasnt a matter of cost/affordability as Peter recommended that for my purpose that i should just get the oil cooler

Im in but want as per my previous posts and calls the Advan just want a price for the oil cooler option with lower thermo.

Hi,

that's cool as my comments with regards profit margins etc. were in no way directed at you personally, "To be honest guys..."

Peter is correct in that you will not require the PWR rad' if you have no intention of ever tracking the car.

The cost of the Stage 2 kit with lower stat' (less the PWR rad') will be $1,000 inc.GST, this excludes installation.

I do apologise for taking quite a while to get back to.

It's my bad as I have been attempting to drum up some interest on the US forums, so our GB prices can happen for all you local guys.

[JD75]

Hi guys,

I just wanted to reiterate that the fantastic GROUP BUY prices we are currently offering, were intended to be "Pre-delivery" only.

Given that we are looking to have the 135i kits completed by the end of January, we may continue the GB throughout the first half of Feb.

However once the GB period has expired, the cost of the ADVAN Performance, N54 "Complete Cooling Solution" will be as follows:

- The Stage 1 kit that features a 15 row "Setrab" oil cooler & "PWR" radiator will be available for $1,795.00

- The Stage 2 kit that features the 20 row "Setrab" oil cooler & "PWR" radiator will be available for $2,145.00

Once again this will be exclusive of shipment or installation for you local guys.

As you can see the "Pre-delivery" discount we are offering for both the Stage 1 & Stage 2 kits, is quite substantial and to the tune of $350 Aus.

[JD75]

Bump, to the top!

[TimMc]

As the 15 & 20 row coolers are of the same physical size, I'm wondering how much (if any) extra benefit you'll get with a 20 row. Potentially, with more rows jammed in the same space there could be less airflow as the airflow is more obstructed. Do you have any info comparing these coolers - and the stock cooler?
Cheers.

[JD75]

Originally Posted by TimMc

As the 15 & 20 row coolers are of the same physical size, I'm wondering how much (if any) extra benefit you'll get with a 20 row. Potentially, with more rows jammed in the same space there could be less airflow as the airflow is more obstructed. Do you have any info comparing these coolers - and the stock cooler?
Cheers.

Hey Tim,

here is a quote from the previous page.

"Here are some pics of the 15 row cooler that will be used in our Stage 1 kit.

Our Stage 2 kit will utilise a 20 row cooler that is of the same width and depth."

The two key words are width and depth, I did NOT say it will be of the same HEIGHT.

My bad, I should have been clearer.

The 20 row cooler with an extra 5 rows will extend down further past the lip of the air duct, it will have both significantly more volume and frontal surface area.

I will be removing my old "Stett" Stage 2 kit and installing our Stage 2 kit with the 20 row cooler, as soon as we have a complete kit ready for fitment.

I can certainly provide a comparison of surface area and volume between the BMW OE cooler, the 15 row "Setrab" cooler and the larger 20 row "Setrab" cooler.

Of course a side by side pic is a great way to illustrate the difference, so I will do that too.

Cheers.

[TimMc]

Thanks JD.
Picture comparo would be good, but may not tell the story of efficiency of each of the three. As the 20 row unit extends below the air duct, the extra 5 rows will not have the same effect as the 15 above, but will still provide some extra cooling. Could the cooling duct be extended lower? May not look OEM then.
Cheers, Tim.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Hi Gents,

here are a few pics illustrating the comparative size of our Stage 1 (15 row) oil cooler and the Stage 2 (20 row) cooler.

As you can see even the Stage 1 core has more frontal surface area than the BMW OE oil cooler and significantly more core volume.

Whilst the 20 row core is a monster in comparison to the tiny OE unit.

FYI,

we plan to have the complete Stage 2 oil cooler kit fitted to our 135i by this time next week.

Cheers,

JD.

[TimMc]

Thanks Justin.
As above, the picture comparo is good, but does not tell the actual efficiency of each of the three in situ.
1. As I mentioned before, you advise the 20 row unit extends below the air duct, so the extra 5 rows will not have the same cooling effect as the 15 above. They should still provide some extra cooling however.
2. Both Setrab units are also significantly wider than the OEM cooler. Does the OEM ducting feed the extra width, or, as per the extra height of the 20 row, will the extra width not be fed fresh ducted air?
Could the cooling duct be extended lower and wider to utilise the bigger coolers fully? May not look OEM then.
Cheers, Tim.

[BMW86]

+ 1 on Tim's questions.

How many hours of labour would this cost installation?

[1q2w3e4r]

Labour price for fitment is $500, it's on page 8

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by TimMc

Thanks JD.
Picture comparo would be good, but may not tell the story of efficiency of each of the three. As the 20 row unit extends below the air duct, the extra 5 rows will not have the same effect as the 15 above, but will still provide some extra cooling. Could the cooling duct be extended lower? May not look OEM then.
Cheers, Tim.

Hey Tim,

I hope you found the pics I posted to be useful.

The extra 5 rows present in the 20 row core will most definitely improve the efficiency of the oil cooler.

Whilst frontal surface is critical to improved efficiency, total volume also plays an important role in heat transfer.

As an example how many upgraded intercoolers on the market actually have unobstructed airflow across the ENTIRE front surface of the core, when installed on a 135i or 335i?

To the best of my knowledge none.

The KL Racing aka "Big Tom" intercooler has been reported to be a very nice upgrade, over the ineffecient OE intercooler.

I can assure you there is no way in hell that clean air will see every square centimetre, of the front face of that intercooler.

FYI,

the core volume of the BMW OE oil cooler is approximately 595 cubic centimetres.

The Stage 1 (15 row) core volume is approximately 1,678 cubic centimetres.

The Stage 2 (20 row) core has a volume equal to approximately 2,288 cubic centimetres.

This puts our 15 row cooler at 2.82 x the core volume of the OE unit.

The 20 row cooler is a very impressive 3.85 x the core volume, of the tiny BMW OE oil cooler.

Lastly,

the cooling duct cannot be extended lower, as the face of the oil cooler is in close proximity to the plastic cowling on the inside of the bumper.

Cheers,

JD.

[TimMc]

Thanks Justin.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by TimMc

Thanks Justin.

Sure Tim, no problem.

I have another point of interest for you too, that I know you will like.

I will come back to that shortly.

[DMM]

Originally Posted by TimMc

Thanks Justin.
As above, the picture comparo is good, but does not tell the actual efficiency of each of the three in situ.
1. As I mentioned before, you advise the 20 row unit extends below the air duct, so the extra 5 rows will not have the same cooling effect as the 15 above. They should still provide some extra cooling however.
2. Both Setrab units are also significantly wider than the OEM cooler. Does the OEM ducting feed the extra width, or, as per the extra height of the 20 row, will the extra width not be fed fresh ducted air?
Could the cooling duct be extended lower and wider to utilise the bigger coolers fully? May not look OEM then.
Cheers, Tim.

The ideal ratio for cooling in and out of a cooler (oil, water etc) is mathematically roughly as follows.

Rear side of the radiator (oil cooler, intercooler etc) should have an exit opening about 1.2 times the size of the exposed area of the front side of the core.

Mathematically an inlet duct to feed the radiator reaches maximum efficiency and flow at around 80% size of the frontal surface area. After this, you reach point of significant diminishing returns. (boundary lary flow, buffer air, core restrictions etc)

My point that im steering towards is that the ducting to the setrabs will be sufficient!

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by DMM

The ideal ratio for cooling in and out of a cooler (oil, water etc) is mathematically roughly as follows.

Rear side of the radiator (oil cooler, intercooler etc) should have an exit opening about 1.2 times the size of the exposed area of the front side of the core.

Mathematically an inlet duct to feed the radiator reaches maximum efficiency and flow at around 80% size of the frontal surface area. After this, you reach point of significant diminishing returns. (boundary lary flow, buffer air, core restrictions etc)

My point that im steering towards is that the ducting to the setrabs will be sufficient!

Interesting, thanks.
The one part of this kit I'm not so sure about at the moment is the lower thermostat setup. Like some others, I suspect there's a reason that BMW want to run these direct injected engines above a certain temp (though not the extreme temps you can get when you up the power & track the car). I'm thinking the standard oil & water thermostats with the added cooling suggested here may be ideal. Thoughts?

[BMW86]

What are the differences between this kit and the Stett?

Both utilise the Setrab core. The Stett's core seems more square, whilst the Advan seems taller.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by TimMc

I'm thinking the standard oil & water thermostats with the added cooling suggested here may be ideal. Thoughts?

Hey Tim,

I apologise for not getting back to you sooner with a response.

I have been a bit busy sorting out a fitment solution for the AT guys that wish to purchase our PWR rad' and heavens forbid getting a few bits and pieces taken care of for my own car.

With regards the use of the OE oil cooler thermostat, we have chosen to replace that with the Mocal 82 degrees Celsius stat' in our Stage 2 kit for a reason.

Our testing indicates that the OE thermostat does not begin to open until almost 105 degrees Celsius and is probably not fully open until 115-120 degrees.

That is quite ok for spirited driving on the street but under the extreme conditions of track use, there is absolutely no advantage to have your oil temps hovering around 120 degrees Celsius, that is assuming your oil cooler is up to the task.

If the core design is not terribly efficient or placement with regards clean air is poor, the cooler will not stabilise temps so with continued "hot lapping" they will climb further still.

Essentially our external Mocal thermostat gives the oil cooler a "head start", as you will have full unrestricted oil flow through the Setrab core, long before the OE stat' has even thought about getting up off the lounge to answer the phone.

Cheers,

JD.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Hey Gents,

here are a few pics of the completed Stage 1 (15 row) cooler fitted to my car.

Please note that the bracket you see is not the production version, for the purposes of initial fitment and testing it is our original prototype bracket.

The mounting bracket that will be included in our kits will be made of 3 mm steel and powder coated black. The fastening hardware will also be of a higher quality and less (shall we say) obtrusive.

I will also take a few pics of the -10 AN oil filter housing adapter we have used for the Stage 1 kit, prior to removing the entire kit next week to install our Stage 2 (20 row) external Mocal stat' setup.

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

Hey Tim,

I apologise for not getting back to you sooner with a response.

I have been a bit busy sorting out a fitment solution for the AT guys that wish to purchase our PWR rad' and heavens forbid getting a few bits and pieces taken care of for my own car.

With regards the use of the OE oil cooler thermostat, we have chosen to replace that with the Mocal 82 degrees Celsius stat' in our Stage 2 kit for a reason.

Our testing indicates that the OE thermostat does not begin to open until almost 105 degrees Celsius and is probably not fully open until 115-120 degrees.

That is quite ok for spirited driving on the street but under the extreme conditions of track use, there is absolutely no advantage to have your oil temps hovering around 120 degrees Celsius, that is assuming your oil cooler is up to the task.

If the core design is not terribly efficient or placement with regards clean air is poor, the cooler will not stabilise temps so with continued "hot lapping" they will climb further still.

Essentially our external Mocal thermostat gives the oil cooler a "head start", as you will have full unrestricted oil flow through the Setrab core, long before the OE stat' has even thought about getting up off the lounge to answer the phone.

Cheers,

JD.

Thanks Justin. Yeah, I fully understood why you went down that track. My main question, particularly to cars that are only rarely tracked liked my own was, "the lower thermostat setup. Like some others, I suspect there's a reason that BMW want to run these direct injected engines above a certain temp (though not the extreme temps you can get when you up the power & track the car).". There's talk that running higher oil temps on the road may stop some of the carbon build up on our DI engines. Why do BMW run such a high thermostat value? If my car was purely a track car I'd be comfortable with your lower value unit but as it's 99% a road car I'm not sure. Thoughts? I'm happy to be convinced either way.
Cheers, Tim.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by BMW86

What are the differences between this kit and the Stett?

Both utilise the Setrab core. The Stett's core seems more square, whilst the Advan seems taller.

Hey mate,

with regards the core dimensions I can measure the Setrab cooler in the Stett Stage 2 kit if you like.

The cooler in the Stett kit is definitely more square, where as our 20 row "Extra Wide" core is very much rectangular.

Geometry lesson aside both our coolers make far better use of the airflow through the lower duct on the right side of the front bar.

Whilst I suspect the Stage 2 coolers of both kits will be similar in core volume and frontal surface area, our kit is built entirely around -10 AN fittings.

All the fittings on the Stett kit are only -8.

As such there will be more potential for oil flow restriction via -8 hose and hose ends, then our larger inner diametre -10 AN hose and fittings.

FYI,

the fittings in the OE oil cooler are equivalent to -10 in size.

The Earl's Pro-Lite Ultra hose we use in both kits is far more durable than the oil lines supplied with the Stett kit, the Pro-Lite hose retails for $77.00 per metre, when you hold it in your hand you can see why.

The Earl's Ano-Tuff Swivel Seal hose ends we use where possible are also of an exceptionally high quality, we could have gone with a cheaper alternative, but we did not set out to develop a kit that was in anyway a compromise.

Lastly the installation of our kit will NOT require the removal, of the entire front bumper assembly of the car to mount the cooler bracket, as is necessary with the Stett kit.

You need only remove the front right wheel and the wheel arch splash liner, which I have done several times myself and it's not a terribly difficult task.

Just to refresh everyone's memory here are some pics of the hose and hose ends we use in both our Stage 1 & Stage 2 kits.

Cheers,

JD.