SCCA STU build

Amalfitano · 04-06-2011, 04:17 PM

i decided to scale back to 1.5-1.7 in back for camber.

I'll probably get another alignment in a month or so when i have the new bushings in the front, I can make some adjustments then if I want

Auto-x guys locally convinced me to stay with a little toe out in front. Right now i'm gonna feel out how 1/8 out front and 1/8 in rear feels like.

I'm doing it this way a bit from curiosity. i want to feel like i have a decent handle on the car the way it is, then change up the front to hopefully give a better endorsement one way or the other on these offset bushings for the control arms.

Clap135 · 04-06-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amalfitano

Yikes! Failed exercise in rear end control

Spun three times in 2 runs. I'm not about to assume it was all car, everything about the dynamics were different. I wasn't attacking turns as fast in as i could or as hard through them, never encountered understeer, then when experimenting with the LSD and getting on the power earlier than before, it feels good, then i give it a little more and get a bit squirrelly. It was a cold day, so that's a factor, and i did not do any better than eyeballing my alignment and quick string testing. I thought my toe was neutral in the rear, it very well could've been even a bit toe out which would at least partially excuse me

It was only 5 runs so i didn't have all that much time to TRY to dial in, i probably could've adapted better even today and dropped a second and a half, but i was 4 seconds off from feeling satisfied. I'm hoping I stop driving like poop, and the corner balance and alignment get the car ready for me to take advantage.

No midpipes yet, no downpipes yet, no offset control arms yet, and I might grab poly for the tension arm.

In the end it was a teaching event, and at least i got to point out to one student what i did wrong.

When did the string alignment, did you account for the different front and rear track plus whatever wheel offsets you changed? If that string was perfect to the center of the car, your alignment is way off.

Amalfitano · 04-07-2011, 09:32 AM

I was rushing so for all i know i was WAAAY off. My Corner Balance shop got a bit of a back log, so my guy got my balance done yesterday, but another guy at the shop didn't get to his alignment job until late, so another car was in the way of getting everything done yesterday. He'll give me my before and after so i can see how off i truly was.

What i originally wanted to do for the string alignment was only measure total toe, then chalk the ground and measure the angles to confirm it was the same left to right. I ran out of daylight and general time because of that wedding, and us doing the school event on saturday that i never got to chalk and measure. My total toe out in front was reasonable (3/16") and total toe in rear was (1/16"). Whether that was majority left or right, i didn't get around to measure and really wish i did.

Clap135 · 04-07-2011, 09:47 AM

I am just curious how you set up the string though to get these measurements. Did you measure from the center caps of front and rear wheels? I know the stock track width is something like 58.3f and 59.6 r or something like that. The problem is that once you put on wider wheels with different offsets those track measurements can drastically change. If your string wasnt perfectly straight your total toe measurements will be grossly wrong which could explain your spin out problems.

Reason I am even posting this is that I got my car aligned at a shop and then spent like four hours trying to get close to the spec sheet given to me.....and wasted four hours of my time due to the different front and rear tracks along with the wider and different then stock offset wheels.

I have aligned all my cars before using string and callers and all were dead on.....this fucken thing I can't get right for the life of me. Lol

Amalfitano · 04-07-2011, 10:40 AM

I was shortcutting using the tread. I measured from the tread that's slightly inboard from dead center, but from where the wave is closest to dead center on the tire. I just eyeballed doing it at the same height and used a pin to hold the drivers side up and my finger to hold the passenger side, so really this was pin measurement not the traditional string measurement, but i used string as opposed to tape measure so that i could do it myself.. Obviously it's not the best and i'm VERY interested to see how far off it really was

I knew before the event that everything was gonna be squirrelly, i just wanted to get the first runs out of the way.

I might rebound tune from soft up. I'm going on the intuition i'll want the front softer than the rear respectively, so i'll be starting full soft up front, up the rear til that feels best and see if i can bring the front stiffer without changing how i want the rear the feel. That and the front feels real nice right now, even when i did a run at 4/12 stiff to start (i didn't up the car to full stiff in the morning, then i was the third car for the day to go, just ran out of time to get my baseline to full stiff.

Clap135 · 04-07-2011, 11:18 AM

Well I'm going to attempt this one last time over the weekend by pretty much boxing my car with string so the front and rear string is at even distances and the front and rear of each side of the car is even to the other side front and rear. This should give me a square box and accurate front and rear tracks for future changes. I'm just so tired of not being able to change my set up around without throwing the alignment of and having to pay to get it re aligned again.

Sorry for the rant.

Amalfitano · 04-07-2011, 01:24 PM

Rant away

I havea friend with some alignment equipment in his garage, i might go that route after the control arms, see what the equipment says, get it done professional with some before specs, see if what we measured is what my guy measured.

Amalfitano · 04-07-2011, 11:17 PM

Offset bushing control arms?

Ar Design DP's with race cats?

leaky rear shock? :'(

Probably lost two race weekends, though one's out of town anyway, but it looks like i'm shipping my shock out to get rebuilt. While up in the air for the corner balance, the shock was seeping. My guy told me a little more than a capfull dripped to the ground, plus whatever was still on the shock, more than enough to feel horrible about it all.

Though it might explain my spin-happy car a little better.

I just have to decide if i want to rebuild both rears just to feel better.

Clap135 · 04-08-2011, 07:22 AM

Man that's a bummer bit if it makes u feel better I had to replace one rear shock due to collar seizing on me during winter. That was a pita.

Tomorrow is my first stu auto....well c how my set up works. I am not exactly legal cause I'm actress but oh well shhhh.

Amalfitano · 04-08-2011, 08:57 AM

good luck!

Here' my before alignment specs...

2.38 left camber, 2.89 right camber. OUCH literally can't get more camber on the driver's side

.55 degrees out left, .29 degrees out right WOW

1.98 camber left and right in the rear

.07 in left, .36 in right

Add in a potentially underdamped right shock, no wonder I was all over the place.

Corner balance results... 52% front with driver. Mike was 258, 3/4 tank of gas, 3629 all told. So the steptronic car is down to 3390 with a full tank of gas roughly. Race weight will be closer to 1/2 tank and about 3350. Midpipe cats are still there, stock seats still there, heavier battery still there. Though the battery will jump my front bias up. Still that should be about 170 lbs i can drop from the car...

Clap135 · 04-08-2011, 09:09 AM

My settings, all in degrees
-1.8 front camber left and right. The plates are nowhere near maxed but I want these tire to last for daily driving.

0.00 total toe in the front.
0.14 left and right rear for a total of .28 toe in.
-1.6 on each rear.
Caster was at 6.8 left and right.

Fairly conservative alignment. I'll report back on how it works. It's sitting on 245 fronts and 265 rear nt05 tires.

Amalfitano · 04-08-2011, 09:25 AM

Let me know how those nt05's stick in the cold. I heard they aren't really an autocross tire and more of a "street tire" road race tire, but some of those road racers really liked them.

Lubo · 04-08-2011, 01:12 PM

I maxed out my driver side at -2.5* passenger went to -2.8*. I am also running a square 255 setup, after some runs I am still wearing out outside of the tire more. For Auto-X I think we need -3* or more for nice and even wear....

Amalfitano · 04-08-2011, 01:23 PM

I have the control arms in hand

the extra offset looks awesome! Though i'm going to sort out my shock troubles first before thinking about the control arm swap and fresh alignment. Here's hoping that 2.38 degrees becomes at least 2.8 degrees, if not all the way to 3!

cpt97m3 · 04-09-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amalfitano

I have the control arms in hand

the extra offset looks awesome! Though i'm going to sort out my shock troubles first before thinking about the control arm swap and fresh alignment. Here's hoping that 2.38 degrees becomes at least 2.8 degrees, if not all the way to 3!

How about some pictures of those offset bushings? Anyone going to make some for the rest of us?

Amalfitano · 04-11-2011, 09:02 AM

I will snap some pics later. The word was this was a custom job for about $300 if i'm remembering correctly. I don't have info about who did the custom job though. Perhaps with enough produced number that price could go down, but the problem becomes that the m3 lower control arms are an easy bolt-on, and it's only SCCA racers that are running into an offset bushing need. But hey, power in numbers, maybe something could get figured out.

Amalfitano · 04-13-2011, 08:49 AM

Service notice came on, so i do believe i'm getting fresh pads from the maintenance program...

By the way my SA was describing it, they are probably replacing my HPFP and injectors since i did throw a quick CEL and had an odd start once even though it's been fine since. They are also looking at some other odd things. I'm curious what my SA may or may not say to me about all the suspension stuff...or the lug studs.

BimmerMeUp · 04-13-2011, 11:18 AM

I've never had a complaint about my lug studs. I've been thanked by a mechanic for them, although I think that was on the MINI that preceded my BMW.

TSiggs · 04-19-2011, 02:18 PM

Does anyone know if using an aftermarket catless midpipe is legal for STU? Here is the rule on cats:

Quote:

STX, STU – Any high flow catalytic converter(s) are allowed, but must attach within six inches of the original unit. Multiple catalytic converters may be replaced by a single unit. The inlet of the single replacement converter may be located no further downstream than 6” along the piping flow path from the original exit of the final OE converter.

I'm finding it hard to believe that means you can't just remove one and leave the other. It's the word "replace" that has me doubting though...

Amalfitano · 04-19-2011, 03:19 PM

Basically, people are doing it. It's odd wording that may change and become a take back, but yes, you are effectively replacing the two cats that are on one of the streams with just the first primary cat. NOW, it could be argued against you that if you don't change your downpipe cat, you did not REPLACE the cat. But if you get catted downpipes and run midpipes with no cats, what you did follows the wording. I'm curious with the N55 how that ends up with what's effectively a single primary cat and two secondaries...

TSiggs · 04-19-2011, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amalfitano

But if you get catted downpipes and run midpipes with no cats, what you did follows the wording.

Now that I'm rereading the rule, it says your replacement cat has to be no more than 6" downstream from the FINAL cat. Would the final cat not be the one in the midpipe? I'm so confused, haha.

It almost reads like you should be able to replace the DP with no cat as long as you keep/replace the one in the midpipe!

Amalfitano · 04-19-2011, 07:37 PM

id recommend also looking at the fastrack proposal for the st re-org. with current rules, yes i agree with you. but i remember reading the proposal and thinking it was changing that wording. So you could go that route but then have to change it all next year. though all of that is in the comment phase, so there's that.

04-06-2011, 04:17 PM	#89
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	i decided to scale back to 1.5-1.7 in back for camber. I'll probably get another alignment in a month or so when i have the new bushings in the front, I can make some adjustments then if I want Auto-x guys locally convinced me to stay with a little toe out in front. Right now i'm gonna feel out how 1/8 out front and 1/8 in rear feels like. I'm doing it this way a bit from curiosity. i want to feel like i have a decent handle on the car the way it is, then change up the front to hopefully give a better endorsement one way or the other on these offset bushings for the control arms.
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04-07-2011, 09:32 AM	#91
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	I was rushing so for all i know i was WAAAY off. My Corner Balance shop got a bit of a back log, so my guy got my balance done yesterday, but another guy at the shop didn't get to his alignment job until late, so another car was in the way of getting everything done yesterday. He'll give me my before and after so i can see how off i truly was. What i originally wanted to do for the string alignment was only measure total toe, then chalk the ground and measure the angles to confirm it was the same left to right. I ran out of daylight and general time because of that wedding, and us doing the school event on saturday that i never got to chalk and measure. My total toe out in front was reasonable (3/16") and total toe in rear was (1/16"). Whether that was majority left or right, i didn't get around to measure and really wish i did.
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04-07-2011, 09:47 AM	#92
Clap135 Brigadier General 102 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	I am just curious how you set up the string though to get these measurements. Did you measure from the center caps of front and rear wheels? I know the stock track width is something like 58.3f and 59.6 r or something like that. The problem is that once you put on wider wheels with different offsets those track measurements can drastically change. If your string wasnt perfectly straight your total toe measurements will be grossly wrong which could explain your spin out problems. Reason I am even posting this is that I got my car aligned at a shop and then spent like four hours trying to get close to the spec sheet given to me.....and wasted four hours of my time due to the different front and rear tracks along with the wider and different then stock offset wheels. I have aligned all my cars before using string and callers and all were dead on.....this fucken thing I can't get right for the life of me. Lol
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04-07-2011, 10:40 AM	#93
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	I was shortcutting using the tread. I measured from the tread that's slightly inboard from dead center, but from where the wave is closest to dead center on the tire. I just eyeballed doing it at the same height and used a pin to hold the drivers side up and my finger to hold the passenger side, so really this was pin measurement not the traditional string measurement, but i used string as opposed to tape measure so that i could do it myself.. Obviously it's not the best and i'm VERY interested to see how far off it really was I knew before the event that everything was gonna be squirrelly, i just wanted to get the first runs out of the way. I might rebound tune from soft up. I'm going on the intuition i'll want the front softer than the rear respectively, so i'll be starting full soft up front, up the rear til that feels best and see if i can bring the front stiffer without changing how i want the rear the feel. That and the front feels real nice right now, even when i did a run at 4/12 stiff to start (i didn't up the car to full stiff in the morning, then i was the third car for the day to go, just ran out of time to get my baseline to full stiff.
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04-07-2011, 11:18 AM	#94
Clap135 Brigadier General 102 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	Well I'm going to attempt this one last time over the weekend by pretty much boxing my car with string so the front and rear string is at even distances and the front and rear of each side of the car is even to the other side front and rear. This should give me a square box and accurate front and rear tracks for future changes. I'm just so tired of not being able to change my set up around without throwing the alignment of and having to pay to get it re aligned again. Sorry for the rant.
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04-07-2011, 01:24 PM	#95
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	Rant away I havea friend with some alignment equipment in his garage, i might go that route after the control arms, see what the equipment says, get it done professional with some before specs, see if what we measured is what my guy measured.
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04-07-2011, 11:17 PM	#96
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	Offset bushing control arms? Ar Design DP's with race cats? leaky rear shock? :'( Probably lost two race weekends, though one's out of town anyway, but it looks like i'm shipping my shock out to get rebuilt. While up in the air for the corner balance, the shock was seeping. My guy told me a little more than a capfull dripped to the ground, plus whatever was still on the shock, more than enough to feel horrible about it all. Though it might explain my spin-happy car a little better. I just have to decide if i want to rebuild both rears just to feel better.
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04-08-2011, 07:22 AM	#97
Clap135 Brigadier General 102 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	Man that's a bummer bit if it makes u feel better I had to replace one rear shock due to collar seizing on me during winter. That was a pita. Tomorrow is my first stu auto....well c how my set up works. I am not exactly legal cause I'm actress but oh well shhhh.
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04-08-2011, 08:57 AM	#98
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	good luck! Here' my before alignment specs... 2.38 left camber, 2.89 right camber. OUCH literally can't get more camber on the driver's side .55 degrees out left, .29 degrees out right WOW 1.98 camber left and right in the rear .07 in left, .36 in right Add in a potentially underdamped right shock, no wonder I was all over the place. Corner balance results... 52% front with driver. Mike was 258, 3/4 tank of gas, 3629 all told. So the steptronic car is down to 3390 with a full tank of gas roughly. Race weight will be closer to 1/2 tank and about 3350. Midpipe cats are still there, stock seats still there, heavier battery still there. Though the battery will jump my front bias up. Still that should be about 170 lbs i can drop from the car...
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04-08-2011, 09:09 AM	#99
Clap135 Brigadier General 102 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	My settings, all in degrees -1.8 front camber left and right. The plates are nowhere near maxed but I want these tire to last for daily driving. 0.00 total toe in the front. 0.14 left and right rear for a total of .28 toe in. -1.6 on each rear. Caster was at 6.8 left and right. Fairly conservative alignment. I'll report back on how it works. It's sitting on 245 fronts and 265 rear nt05 tires.
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04-08-2011, 09:25 AM	#100
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	Let me know how those nt05's stick in the cold. I heard they aren't really an autocross tire and more of a "street tire" road race tire, but some of those road racers really liked them.
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04-08-2011, 01:12 PM	#101
Lubo Lieutenant 23 Rep 475 Posts Drives: 15 335 iX Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Long Island NY iTrader: (1)	I maxed out my driver side at -2.5* passenger went to -2.8. I am also running a square 255 setup, after some runs I am still wearing out outside of the tire more. For Auto-X I think we need -3 or more for nice and even wear....
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04-08-2011, 01:23 PM	#102
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	I have the control arms in hand the extra offset looks awesome! Though i'm going to sort out my shock troubles first before thinking about the control arm swap and fresh alignment. Here's hoping that 2.38 degrees becomes at least 2.8 degrees, if not all the way to 3!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-11-2011, 09:02 AM	#104
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	I will snap some pics later. The word was this was a custom job for about $300 if i'm remembering correctly. I don't have info about who did the custom job though. Perhaps with enough produced number that price could go down, but the problem becomes that the m3 lower control arms are an easy bolt-on, and it's only SCCA racers that are running into an offset bushing need. But hey, power in numbers, maybe something could get figured out.
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04-13-2011, 08:49 AM	#105
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	Service notice came on, so i do believe i'm getting fresh pads from the maintenance program... By the way my SA was describing it, they are probably replacing my HPFP and injectors since i did throw a quick CEL and had an odd start once even though it's been fine since. They are also looking at some other odd things. I'm curious what my SA may or may not say to me about all the suspension stuff...or the lug studs.
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04-13-2011, 11:18 AM	#106
BimmerMeUp Private First Class 12 Rep 118 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	I've never had a complaint about my lug studs. I've been thanked by a mechanic for them, although I think that was on the MINI that preceded my BMW. __________________ 2008 135i Sparkling Graphite Metallic - 6Sp - Black Boston Leather - Gray Poplar trim - Sport Package Premium Package - Comfort Access - iPod/USB - HD FM - Premium Hi-Fi - Heated Seats 5/27 Euro Delivery Welt - 6/5 Drop off AMS - Re-Delivery 8/8 - SOLD 8/2015
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04-19-2011, 03:19 PM	#108
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	Basically, people are doing it. It's odd wording that may change and become a take back, but yes, you are effectively replacing the two cats that are on one of the streams with just the first primary cat. NOW, it could be argued against you that if you don't change your downpipe cat, you did not REPLACE the cat. But if you get catted downpipes and run midpipes with no cats, what you did follows the wording. I'm curious with the N55 how that ends up with what's effectively a single primary cat and two secondaries...
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04-19-2011, 07:37 PM	#110
Amalfitano Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 269 Posts Drives: 2009 135i STEP, Future //M2012 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 135i [0.00]	id recommend also looking at the fastrack proposal for the st re-org. with current rules, yes i agree with you. but i remember reading the proposal and thinking it was changing that wording. So you could go that route but then have to change it all next year. though all of that is in the comment phase, so there's that.
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