Tram runs red light - hits my car, yet I'm at fault.

Wraith · 10-09-2008, 06:42 PM

Gee, that is a case of wrong place, wrong time - just back luck...

Hope you get satisfaction cozza and hope your car gets fixed up good as new...

Main thing is in this case, no one was hurt.

Binstar · 10-10-2008, 01:20 AM

I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but when I was working with the Paramedics in Tassie they were telling about cases where their ambulance was hit by cars going through intersections.

Now I believe the law states cars must give way to ambulances. The drivers obvious slow down and check for oncoming traffic before driving straight through as its dangerous but in the case I heard about they checked to their left and the car slowed to stop and they went through but a car behind him changed into the empty lane and continued through the intersection into the already commited ambulance.

Now despite the law stating you need to give way to the ambulance the police charged the ambulance driver for going through the red light. Then the drivers apparently went on strike until it was sorted out.

So despite the law stating certain people have the right of way they can be charged if they break the laws. This may or may not related to trams and Vic laws.

xa-coupe · 10-10-2008, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Binstar

I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but when I was working with the Paramedics in Tassie they were telling about cases where their ambulance was hit by cars going through intersections.

Now I believe the law states cars must give way to ambulances. The drivers obvious slow down and check for oncoming traffic before driving straight through as its dangerous but in the case I heard about they checked to their left and the car slowed to stop and they went through but a car behind him changed into the empty lane and continued through the intersection into the already commited ambulance.

Now despite the law stating you need to give way to the ambulance the police charged the ambulance driver for going through the red light. Then the drivers apparently went on strike until it was sorted out.

So despite the law stating certain people have the right of way they can be charged if they break the laws. This may or may not related to trams and Vic laws.

What you state is the issue faced by ES drivers here. They have all sorts of dispensations unless it's not safe to do whatever they are doing.
If you have a collision it's not safe ergo you get rubber fisted even if it's not the ES driver's fault. The police here face double jeapardy too. If they go to court to fight any tickets for which they are technically exempt, they get an internal charge.

jksgoh · 10-10-2008, 06:33 AM

sucks to hear that mate. def go speak to the met, or whatever they call it now a days.
could be the perfect excuse to upgrade to the performance bumper though ? (if you like it of course!)

SimonB · 10-10-2008, 07:11 AM

Corey, really sorry to hear about your argument with the tram. Hope you both feel better soon.

cozza · 10-13-2008, 12:11 AM

Thanks for all your positive comments guys. I'm not having much luck at the moment, my insurance company says they won't pursue recovery unless I can provide an independent witness who can confirm that the tram was running a red light. I'm pretty damn furious, because there's no way I can find anyone who was around at the time to come forward.

I made a report to the Police and I'm hoping their investigation reaches an outcome in my favour.

Here's a couple of photos of the damage, and diagrams outlining what happened.

123D-M · 10-13-2008, 01:32 AM

Good diagrams Cozza. Keep fighting. Hopefully the police report helps.

I always despised tram drivers that would sit behind you ringing that damn bell when there was absolutely nowhere you could go to get out of their way.

imported_Loki · 10-13-2008, 03:08 AM

Thats horrible. Hope things go well for you and glad that you didn't suffer any physical injuries (the pain in one's heart is something else - i feel for you and your car).

takahashi · 10-13-2008, 03:25 AM

Trams running reds are facts. Many of us has seen it! Tram driver cannot see you my ass...

You were kind to let him go the next stop. I will park on the track and call the police on the spot, holding up the whole tram.

It is a matter of principle cozza... keep fighting. The damage is minor and some mobile paint van can do it under $200.

DTNJNQ · 10-13-2008, 04:05 AM

Cozza, sorry to see that happen to your car. I've seen trams run red lights lots of times with little regard to people's safety. Tram drivers are not the brightest people, it amazes me how they put some of these people in a position that is responsible for the safety of a large number of people.

imported_pacman · 10-13-2008, 04:13 AM

Not that I am taking sides as I dont live in Melbourne or drive around trams but have driven in the city a few times Dont the traffic lights have an additional one thats Blue with a T or B on it depending if you are talking about Trams or Buses. Somtimes all the lights are red however there light is blue which allows them to run a red light. This would mean they have right of way.
I really do feel for you man nothing sucks more than putting a scratch on your car. I guess the one good thing about this is No-one was hurt and you walked away from it.

jksgoh · 10-13-2008, 05:05 AM

pacman,
they only have the T or B lights in some intersections (B is usually for buses). Im not too sure about the intersection in question, but these lights usually let the buses/trams take off before the rest of the traffic, not after (well in my experience anyway)

SimonB · 10-13-2008, 05:15 AM

Corey, excellent diagrams, but we all know that justice is blind. I assume you 'just' have the excess to lose if they don't recover? I had 2 accidents in my last car, both not at fault, I provided contact details for the drivers on both occasions but they still kept my excess. Nothing I could do would convince them otherwise.

AussieRacer · 10-13-2008, 05:54 AM

cozza keep fighting but becareful with the police side of things, especially with the photos of the front "plate". Could be a double edged sword.

cozza · 10-17-2008, 02:24 AM

Well, as expected, Yarra Trams has denied all liability, and said that my 2 witness statements weren't worth the paper they're written on, as I work with both witnesses. Now, I work for a company that employs around 250 people, and the incident occured on the corner our office is situated, at around lunch time.

Whether I'm connected to the witnesses or not should not have any bearing on their account of the events. I'm absolutely furious but there's not a thing I can do about it. My insurance company, Shannons, refused to assist me with a claim at all, stating that there was insufficient evidence to build a case, and that Yarra Trams would prove too difficult to deal with, and wouldn't back down.

I've subsequently dumped Shannons as my insurer. They can shove it. I thought insurance companies were there to help. I will never recommend Shannons to anyone.

I've had to finance the repair of the car myself, which I had done today. I took the car to Bridge Road Body Works in Richmond, who did a fantastic job, at a great cash price.

I'll finish up with this: Yarra Trams can get f*cked, as can Shannons.

SimonB · 10-17-2008, 02:38 AM

Corey, I'm missing something here. How come Shannons wouldn't pay at all and just keep your excess?

cozza · 10-17-2008, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonB

Corey, I'm missing something here. How come Shannons wouldn't pay at all and just keep your excess?

Of course they were happy for me to lodge an "at fault" claim, and part with $700 excess. Problem is, my premium would have gone up by 60% to $2100! Although I've had a rating 1 with AAMI for 5 years, and therefore have a rating 1 for life, Shannons don't honour it, unlike the majority of other insurers. Shannons told me that I would need to have clean record with them for 3 years before they'd offer me rating protection - something they declined to tell me when I bought my policy a few months ago.

So, there's another reason they can go jump. There's no way I was going to pay a $700 excess and get slogged a further $800 in premium increases.

SimonB · 10-17-2008, 03:02 AM

I think I detect a note of anger there mate, totally understandable, have a couple of days off!

takahashi · 10-17-2008, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozza

Shannons told me that I would need to have clean record with them for 3 years before they'd offer me rating protection - something they declined to tell me when I bought my policy a few months ago.

So, there's another reason they can go jump. There's no way I was going to pay a $700 excess and get slogged a further $800 in premium increases.

Sorry to hear that. I guess you have to see it from there shoes. It is your words against Yarra tram, despite I believe every word you say. Unless you have video evidence you simply in a lose lose situation. I am so sorry about that.

Who are you insure with now Corey? Sounds like you are with AAMI now, but are you sure about their cheap panel shop policy?

I don't insure with AAMI but Shannon because Shannon let me choose who I go to for repair. I guess I know people in panel shop. My good friend just brought a panel shop business.

I do have my wife's car with AAMI. Anyone know which AAMI is the best? Do they have one in Ringwood area? My panel shop is in Ringwood.

takahashi · 10-17-2008, 03:58 AM

Have you thought of going to Today's Tonight or ACA? The program will pay you for your story.

Remember recently the guy had a massive mobile phone bill because of his own stupidity?? How can you get $3000 bill for GPRS usage??? He must be watching YouTube with his Nokia. I heard that ACA paid his outstanding bill for his story.

You are fair more clever than those people. Wrong comparison in my part. But it is just a suggestion, and you have a stage to vent your anger too.

cozza · 10-17-2008, 07:31 PM

Thanks Taka, but I don't know that I could be bothered fighting it any further. The car's fixed now and I'm moving on. Besides, I don't want to be one of those people that has a whinge on TV just to get some money out of them. The stories on A Current Affair and Today Tonight are so pathetic usually - I wouldn't want to stoop to that level.

Yes, I'm now back with AAMI, and my premium is around $100 less per year than Shannons. I've conifirmed with AAMI that I can choose a BMW preferred repairer, should anything happen in the future. They're fairly flexible when it comes to getting your car repaired, especially when you own a premium brand, you just have to be prepared to challenge them.

A few years ago my car was broken into, and my GPS and iPod were stolen. AAMI covered the cost of the windscreen and damage to the door, but refused to cover the GPS and iPod. I challenged them and explained that they were part of the car - the iPod was attached to a dock that was hard-wired to the car, and the GPS was a vehicle accessory. I told them that if they weren't prepared to cover the items I would simply cancel my policy and find another insurer once they'd repaired the window and damage to the driver's door. They'd lose out if I cancelled, so after speaking with someone with a bit more seniority they agreed to cover the items in the end.

On another note, I completely buggered up my number plate when trying to stick it on! I'll have to get yet another one printed! It's harder to stick something on straight

professor · 10-17-2008, 07:42 PM

corey please watch you post. i got so excited seeing those diagrams it will take me the whole day now to calm down!!!

seriously though, all's well that ends well. live and learn. no use crying over spilled milk. a leopard can't change his spots. so let bygones be bygones. (ok, i'll stop now)

10-09-2008, 06:42 PM	#23
Wraith Captain 13 Rep 814 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0)	Gee, that is a case of wrong place, wrong time - just back luck... Hope you get satisfaction cozza and hope your car gets fixed up good as new... Main thing is in this case, no one was hurt.
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10-10-2008, 01:20 AM	#24
Binstar Enlisted Member 1 Rep 48 Posts Drives: Join Date: Sep 2008 iTrader: (0)	I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but when I was working with the Paramedics in Tassie they were telling about cases where their ambulance was hit by cars going through intersections. Now I believe the law states cars must give way to ambulances. The drivers obvious slow down and check for oncoming traffic before driving straight through as its dangerous but in the case I heard about they checked to their left and the car slowed to stop and they went through but a car behind him changed into the empty lane and continued through the intersection into the already commited ambulance. Now despite the law stating you need to give way to the ambulance the police charged the ambulance driver for going through the red light. Then the drivers apparently went on strike until it was sorted out. So despite the law stating certain people have the right of way they can be charged if they break the laws. This may or may not related to trams and Vic laws.
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10-10-2008, 06:33 AM	#26
jksgoh Major 141 Rep 1,448 Posts Drives: M2 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Melb, Vic, Aus iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 E82 125i [0.00]	sucks to hear that mate. def go speak to the met, or whatever they call it now a days. could be the perfect excuse to upgrade to the performance bumper though ? (if you like it of course!)
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10-10-2008, 07:11 AM	#27
SimonB 135 to 335 M Sport to X3 30d M Sport 164 Rep 1,788 Posts Drives: 2018 X3 30d, optioned up! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia iTrader: (0)	Corey, really sorry to hear about your argument with the tram. Hope you both feel better soon. __________________ 2018 X3 30d, Carbon Black Metallic, M Sport Package, Panorama glass sunroof, Lumbar support, Instrument panel in Sensatec, Ambient Lightning, Harmon Kardon Surround Sound , Dynamic Damper Control
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10-13-2008, 12:11 AM	#28
cozza ///Mthusiast 135 Rep 1,751 Posts Drives: M135i (March delivery) Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Photos, etc. Thanks for all your positive comments guys. I'm not having much luck at the moment, my insurance company says they won't pursue recovery unless I can provide an independent witness who can confirm that the tram was running a red light. I'm pretty damn furious, because there's no way I can find anyone who was around at the time to come forward. I made a report to the Police and I'm hoping their investigation reaches an outcome in my favour. Here's a couple of photos of the damage, and diagrams outlining what happened. Attached Images __________________ ///M135i: AUTO \| ALPINE WHITE \| CORAL RED LEATHER \| HEATED SEATS \| SUNROOF \| NAV \| DAB TUNER \| HARMAN KARDON \| PERFORMANCE BITS 'N' PIECES
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10-13-2008, 01:32 AM	#29
123D-M Captain 32 Rep 930 Posts Drives: BMW 123d M-Sport Coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Madrid, Spain iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Citroen DS19 P ... [0.00] 2009 123D M-Sport C ... [10.00] 2009 Mazda6 [0.00]	Good diagrams Cozza. Keep fighting. Hopefully the police report helps. I always despised tram drivers that would sit behind you ringing that damn bell when there was absolutely nowhere you could go to get out of their way. __________________ 2009 123D Coupe \| Sedona Red \| Black Boston Leather \| Brushed Aluminium Trim \| Tinted Windows \| M-Sport Package \| 6M \| Comfort Access \| Heated Seats \| Navigation \| Park Distance Front & Rear \| USB \| Bluetooth \| Voice Control \| Efficient Dynamics \| Rain & Light Sensors \| Xenon Lights My blog: http://urbanemusings.wordpress.com/
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10-13-2008, 03:08 AM	#30
imported_Loki New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: Join Date: Aug 2008 iTrader: (0)	Thats horrible. Hope things go well for you and glad that you didn't suffer any physical injuries (the pain in one's heart is something else - i feel for you and your car).
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10-13-2008, 03:25 AM	#31
takahashi Retired trackie 36 Rep 1,527 Posts Drives: 1///M Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Trams running reds are facts. Many of us has seen it! Tram driver cannot see you my ass... You were kind to let him go the next stop. I will park on the track and call the police on the spot, holding up the whole tram. It is a matter of principle cozza... keep fighting. The damage is minor and some mobile paint van can do it under $200. __________________ TAKA 一仔BLOGブログ: BMW 1 series M 2011! Delivered 18/11/11.
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10-13-2008, 04:05 AM	#32
DTNJNQ Captain 110 Rep 994 Posts Drives: M2, 135i, Xclass Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW 135i [8.66]	Cozza, sorry to see that happen to your car. I've seen trams run red lights lots of times with little regard to people's safety. Tram drivers are not the brightest people, it amazes me how they put some of these people in a position that is responsible for the safety of a large number of people.
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10-13-2008, 04:13 AM	#33
imported_pacman Private 0 Rep 64 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jul 2008 iTrader: (0)	Not that I am taking sides as I dont live in Melbourne or drive around trams but have driven in the city a few times Dont the traffic lights have an additional one thats Blue with a T or B on it depending if you are talking about Trams or Buses. Somtimes all the lights are red however there light is blue which allows them to run a red light. This would mean they have right of way. I really do feel for you man nothing sucks more than putting a scratch on your car. I guess the one good thing about this is No-one was hurt and you walked away from it.
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10-13-2008, 05:05 AM	#34
jksgoh Major 141 Rep 1,448 Posts Drives: M2 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Melb, Vic, Aus iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 E82 125i [0.00]	pacman, they only have the T or B lights in some intersections (B is usually for buses). Im not too sure about the intersection in question, but these lights usually let the buses/trams take off before the rest of the traffic, not after (well in my experience anyway)
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10-13-2008, 05:15 AM	#35
SimonB 135 to 335 M Sport to X3 30d M Sport 164 Rep 1,788 Posts Drives: 2018 X3 30d, optioned up! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia iTrader: (0)	Corey, excellent diagrams, but we all know that justice is blind. I assume you 'just' have the excess to lose if they don't recover? I had 2 accidents in my last car, both not at fault, I provided contact details for the drivers on both occasions but they still kept my excess. Nothing I could do would convince them otherwise. __________________ 2018 X3 30d, Carbon Black Metallic, M Sport Package, Panorama glass sunroof, Lumbar support, Instrument panel in Sensatec, Ambient Lightning, Harmon Kardon Surround Sound , Dynamic Damper Control
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10-13-2008, 05:54 AM	#36
AussieRacer Major 24 Rep 1,058 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Aust iTrader: (0)	cozza keep fighting but becareful with the police side of things, especially with the photos of the front "plate". Could be a double edged sword. __________________ Current: 135i Auto, Le Mans Blue - w/ Bridgestone RE-11 rears, GP Thunder 7500k angels, & "golf tee" mod plus a few M3 suspension bits and pieces...
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10-17-2008, 02:24 AM	#37
cozza ///Mthusiast 135 Rep 1,751 Posts Drives: M135i (March delivery) Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Well, as expected, Yarra Trams has denied all liability, and said that my 2 witness statements weren't worth the paper they're written on, as I work with both witnesses. Now, I work for a company that employs around 250 people, and the incident occured on the corner our office is situated, at around lunch time. Whether I'm connected to the witnesses or not should not have any bearing on their account of the events. I'm absolutely furious but there's not a thing I can do about it. My insurance company, Shannons, refused to assist me with a claim at all, stating that there was insufficient evidence to build a case, and that Yarra Trams would prove too difficult to deal with, and wouldn't back down. I've subsequently dumped Shannons as my insurer. They can shove it. I thought insurance companies were there to help. I will never recommend Shannons to anyone. I've had to finance the repair of the car myself, which I had done today. I took the car to Bridge Road Body Works in Richmond, who did a fantastic job, at a great cash price. I'll finish up with this: Yarra Trams can get f*cked, as can Shannons. __________________ ///M135i: AUTO \| ALPINE WHITE \| CORAL RED LEATHER \| HEATED SEATS \| SUNROOF \| NAV \| DAB TUNER \| HARMAN KARDON \| PERFORMANCE BITS 'N' PIECES
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10-17-2008, 02:38 AM	#38
SimonB 135 to 335 M Sport to X3 30d M Sport 164 Rep 1,788 Posts Drives: 2018 X3 30d, optioned up! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia iTrader: (0)	Corey, I'm missing something here. How come Shannons wouldn't pay at all and just keep your excess? __________________ 2018 X3 30d, Carbon Black Metallic, M Sport Package, Panorama glass sunroof, Lumbar support, Instrument panel in Sensatec, Ambient Lightning, Harmon Kardon Surround Sound , Dynamic Damper Control
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10-17-2008, 03:02 AM	#40
SimonB 135 to 335 M Sport to X3 30d M Sport 164 Rep 1,788 Posts Drives: 2018 X3 30d, optioned up! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Perth, Western Australia iTrader: (0)	I think I detect a note of anger there mate, totally understandable, have a couple of days off! __________________ 2018 X3 30d, Carbon Black Metallic, M Sport Package, Panorama glass sunroof, Lumbar support, Instrument panel in Sensatec, Ambient Lightning, Harmon Kardon Surround Sound , Dynamic Damper Control
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10-17-2008, 03:58 AM	#42
takahashi Retired trackie 36 Rep 1,527 Posts Drives: 1///M Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Have you thought of going to Today's Tonight or ACA? The program will pay you for your story. Remember recently the guy had a massive mobile phone bill because of his own stupidity?? How can you get $3000 bill for GPRS usage??? He must be watching YouTube with his Nokia. I heard that ACA paid his outstanding bill for his story. You are fair more clever than those people. Wrong comparison in my part. But it is just a suggestion, and you have a stage to vent your anger too. __________________ TAKA 一仔BLOGブログ: BMW 1 series M 2011! Delivered 18/11/11.
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10-17-2008, 07:31 PM	#43
cozza ///Mthusiast 135 Rep 1,751 Posts Drives: M135i (March delivery) Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	Thanks Taka, but I don't know that I could be bothered fighting it any further. The car's fixed now and I'm moving on. Besides, I don't want to be one of those people that has a whinge on TV just to get some money out of them. The stories on A Current Affair and Today Tonight are so pathetic usually - I wouldn't want to stoop to that level. Yes, I'm now back with AAMI, and my premium is around $100 less per year than Shannons. I've conifirmed with AAMI that I can choose a BMW preferred repairer, should anything happen in the future. They're fairly flexible when it comes to getting your car repaired, especially when you own a premium brand, you just have to be prepared to challenge them. A few years ago my car was broken into, and my GPS and iPod were stolen. AAMI covered the cost of the windscreen and damage to the door, but refused to cover the GPS and iPod. I challenged them and explained that they were part of the car - the iPod was attached to a dock that was hard-wired to the car, and the GPS was a vehicle accessory. I told them that if they weren't prepared to cover the items I would simply cancel my policy and find another insurer once they'd repaired the window and damage to the driver's door. They'd lose out if I cancelled, so after speaking with someone with a bit more seniority they agreed to cover the items in the end. On another note, I completely buggered up my number plate when trying to stick it on! I'll have to get yet another one printed! It's harder to stick something on straight __________________ ///M135i: AUTO \| ALPINE WHITE \| CORAL RED LEATHER \| HEATED SEATS \| SUNROOF \| NAV \| DAB TUNER \| HARMAN KARDON \| PERFORMANCE BITS 'N' PIECES
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10-17-2008, 07:42 PM	#44
professor Major 46 Rep 1,473 Posts Drives: Z4 M40i Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	corey please watch you post. i got so excited seeing those diagrams it will take me the whole day now to calm down!!! seriously though, all's well that ends well. live and learn. no use crying over spilled milk. a leopard can't change his spots. so let bygones be bygones. (ok, i'll stop now)
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