BMW 1M / M1 Feedback.

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by Evice

All I can say is; I'd be more happy to see a BMW rival to R8 then M1. I will still buy M1 when it is out but bmw not responding to audi in this way is just very sad. Sometimes you don't make money, but build some prestige... For ex: nissan GTR. 2cents

I'd rather see BMW take a sustainable path so that they'll be around to offer us the great products that define the brand.

When BMW releases a "super-car" based on the Vision Concept, I hope you'll eat your words. However, they're not going to get there wasting money on non-sustainable technologies.

Welcome to the future.

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

BMW realise that there is a market for compact hatches especially in the performance arena. Although it will not be an M there will be a Performance specification model which could use Tii to rival other compact sport hatches.
It is far too early to know.

Is it right to suspect that the 1er hatch doing winter testing is the beginnings of looking into the hatch mentioned above? Or maybe a turbo-diesel variant?


Any idea about any special M-only colors?

[jmunro]

Scott,

I'm sure everyone here is interested in the following... Will the M1 engine be tuner "friendly" at all or will BMW continue to implement and refine tuner detection?

I'm sure BMW is aware that they are seeing a huge amount of business because of the N54's "potential."

[alphagamma]

Thanks for the insight Scott! My question is this:

Will the M1 be used in actual motorsports racing like the E30 M3 was?

[footie]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

It will be powerful to justify it's premium over the 135i but not to overstep the M3.The engine is based upon BMW's latest Six Cylinder N55 with Twin-Turbo technology.

I'm guessing that the 10K premium (added your own currency to the front of this figure) will mean that there isn't really room to position a 135iS between this 1M and the stock 135i, so that also leads me to believe that the power output isn't dramatically more than what the 35iS engine currently produces, say officially 355-365PS top whack.

Is that figure close?

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The answer I give to you is to decide on what you have seen and what you have heard officially, I would not be doing this if there is nothing on the horizon.

Well this confirms that those recent rumours of a change in programme status from 1M to 135iS was indeed false. Great to hear it.

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

To recoup the cost of the engine development it has to be shared within another vehicle. A Z4M is ruled out so the decision was taken to use this engine as the basis for the next M3. Sharing the development allows BMW excellent cost efficiency when justifying a one off project such as the 1 late in it's production cycle.

I am surprised that BMW didn't pick a V6 configuration over this inline6, packaging would have been an obvious benefit as well as allowing the engine to sit further back. I can understand the cost developing such a new power plant and in current times counting the pennies is as much a necessity for an M project as it is any other.

Basically what I am looking from you is to understand what is unique about this engines construction and configuration compared to the N54-N55 that is used else where in the BMW range, after all according to what you are telling us this engine will be seeing service in the future M3 that will soldier on until approximately 2020. Considering the lifespan involved, why not another bespoke engine like the S65, say a V6 construction?

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

We were working on the car for a Spring release unfortunately Autoshows especially high profile shows such as Geneva were all about product. The focus was intentionally on the World Premiere of the new BMW
5er Sedan. A key important car for BMW and the decision was taken that nothing else should overshadow the 5er and the other new products that were coming to the market.
As for the 1M well you have the car in it's basic protoype form being a 135i with M underpinnings. The car mechanically is far from ready although the visual package is ready testing continues. This car is important because it has to make the M brand accessible to a younger demographic , particular younger customers and it has to show where M is going especially for the next generation.

This I can understand, great PR as this products are it's the mainstream and dare I say money makers in the product range are the ones which need to be given the most limelight. Does this mean that the 1M will be shown at a more low key venue or will it accompany a dual presentation with a secondary product like the 5 series Touring?

I am interested in your thoughts as to what you think a younger consumer is looking for from an M car, is it a more focused on performance with a firmer more compromised ride than expected from a M3 customer or is it a stepping stone product to wet their appetite for future more expensive models, always wanting to more up the ladder so to speak?

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The problem that many people do not understand with an exotic vanity project is that such a programme is not entirely profitable.
We have considered such an idea in the past but when demand is compared with the dreamers it does not justify to spend considerable amounts of money with no return.
People may mention the Audi R8 was a respite to this claim , but Audi has considerable use of the VAG parts bin it is a car based on another car using the engine etc from the other car. VAG has the resources for such projects , BMW AG does not. Whilst other manufacturers were investing in such concepts BMW has invested heavily in Efficient dynamics and because of this BMW is the number one Premium manufacturer and automobile manufacturer who has done more to reduce c02 levels on it's products. Our competitors are trying to catch up , But BMW remain far ahead. BMW's focus is on the Project-i Initiative and the premium compact platform that will underline an expansion of 1er based models. Some models will end early.

I fully agree, BMW don't have the funding to compete financially on VAG's level and as such have to be more inventive, which in my mind is one of the reasons why their think so much out of the box with new products, always looking to capitalize of niche markets that no one ever thought of or felt they needed, so far it's worked a treat but there is a limit to the amount of times you reinvent the wheel so what is the future of BMW products, I know eco is very much a big thing with all companies BMW included but are we likely to see an Eco-supercar in the not to distant future or are they going to shelf such projects and concentrate more on mainstream Eco products?

[kalare]

Please let's not make this thread into an argument with footie...Just because nobody here agrees with him doesn't mean all the threads he posts in have to turn to crud. He's asked Scott the questions, let Scott answer.

As for why V6T is pushed up, I'm going to make a guess that it has something to do with it driving all 4 wheels and not just the rear two.

[Advevo]

Originally Posted by alphagamma

Thanks for the insight Scott! My question is this:

Will the M1 be used in actual motorsports racing like the E30 M3 was?

I think not.

A 1 M will never get the race heritage like the E30 M3. And ///M is looking away from real motorsport engines.

So what has a 6cil turbo to do with a 380hp 4cil M3 E30 at more than 9000 rpm.

So in my opinion a turbo M1 is as far from motorsport as a cow which is sitting at the table eating a nice hot meal.

[southlight]

I deleted two posts to avoid any further OT banter. Footie's questions are valid IMO, but the discussion on Footie's rationale isn't and doesn't add anything to the thread. Thanks for understanding!


Best regards,
south

[hector]

Originally Posted by oasis3582

What will the M1 weigh?

scott has stated at gcf that it will weigh 3300lbs; good guess DMboone!

[southlight]

Anyway, here are my questions:

related to M1
1) What turbo configuration will the engine of the 1M have? Twin scroll? Twin turbo? Twin scroll and twin turbo (like the S63)? Tri-turbo?

2) What will that engine be called, S55?


related to the M5
3) What's the final word on KERS for the M5? Will it use a boost system or even a mild hybrid setup like the Active Hybrid 7?

4) Any hope for a manual transmission for the M5 (both in Europe and the US)?

5) When will the M5 debut? If history repeats itself, the M5 Concept should be on display in Geneva 2011 with the production version being shown in Frankfurt 2011. Is that correct?


related to the 6 series
6) Would it be wrong to assume that the 6 series Coupe will get a retractable hardtop?


Thanks in advance Scott!


Best regards,
south

[footie]

Originally Posted by southlight

I deleted two posts to avoid any further OT banter. Footie's questions are valid IMO, but the discussion on Footie's rationale isn't and doesn't add anything to the thread. Thanks for understanding!


Best regards,
south

Thanks South,

I am very interested in Scott's opinions and answers, plus I thought long and hard to keep them very much on topic.

P.S.
Sorry you had to come in and sort matters out once again.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

No they will remain as 1er. But there will be 6 definite production models based of the new 1er matrix. We have four additional projects under investigation and feasibility study.

A wealth of information in this thread, thanks Scott. You mention that there will be 6 definite production models on the new 1er matrix. Obviously, four of those would be a 3-door hatch, a 5-door hatch, a coupe, and a convertible. Are the other two models possibly a 2-seater coupe/roadster Z2 variant?

[hector]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

A wealth of information in this thread, thanks Scott. You mention that there will be 6 definite production models on the new 1er matrix. Obviously, four of those would be a 3-door hatch, a 5-door hatch, a coupe, and a convertible. Are the other two models possibly a 2-seater coupe/roadster Z2 variant?

the z2 twins: coupe and roadster.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Primo135

Hoping for closer to 3000, but I know that's a very high expectation for this chassis.

I would hope for that as well--but losing almost 400 lbs would be almost impossible at this stage in the game, at least to me....

Maybe 3200 is our best case scenerio--what does the Cayman S weigh?

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I would hope for that as well--but losing almost 400 lbs would be almost impossible at this stage in the game, at least to me....

Maybe 3200 is our best case scenerio--what does the Cayman S weigh?

2976lb

[footie]

Scott is probably in a better position to answer that question but with the 135i M/Sport weighing 1560kg in manual form and the likelihood that the 1M will have DCT which will add around 25kg to this figure I think the very best you could possibly hope for is a figure of 1500kg (3300lbs) unless they drop a lot of standard equipment on to the options list. I would imagine the goal they will be looking to achieve is more to do with lowering the center of gravity and lower the unsprung weight, thus making the car appear to be lighter and more nimble.

You also have to remember that the 1 series coupe is a full 4 seater with a decent boot, not a 2 seater with compromised boot as is the case with the Cayman.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by BForbes

2976lb

Holy cow--no wonder that thing feels like it does.

Originally Posted by footie

Scott is probably in a better position to answer that question but with the 135i M/Sport weighing 1560kg in manual form and the likelihood that the 1M will have DCT which will add around 25kg to this figure I think the very best you could possibly hope for is a figure of 1500kg (3300lbs) unless they drop a lot of standard equipment on to the options list. I would imagine the goal they will be looking to achieve is more to do with lowering the center of gravity and lower the unsprung weight, thus making the car appear to be lighter and more nimble.

You also have to remember that the 1 series coupe is a full 4 seater with a decent boot, not a 2 seater with compromised boot as is the case with the Cayman.

3300 was my orignal guess--which would be a slight dip from the current 135's weight....every little bit helps I guess....

[footie]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

3300 was my orignal guess--which would be a slight dip from the current 135's weight....every little bit helps I guess....

It would be more than just a slight dip. 1585kg (the weight of 135i with DCT) would be an 85kg (187lbs) drop, in my mind that is considerable. That is why I think it's the best case scenario as the 1M will also be gaining a LSD which will also add even more weight.

[kalare]

From Scott's original replies, he implied that a manual was also in the works, which I hope is true. If this is truly to be an M coupe, then I think a manual is a must as the targe audience for M vehicles demand this option for the most part.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by kalare

From Scott's original replies, he implied that a manual was also in the works, which I hope is true. If this is truly to be an M coupe, then I think a manual is a must as the targe audience for M vehicles demand this option for the most part.

I agree, but with the X5M, X6M and realistically, the M5 and M6 all not being available with (or only with a severely handicapped) three pedal format, I think there's a chance that someone in the ///Marketing division may choose to skip the proper setup.

[adrean8j]

There has never been an M3 WITHOUT a manual....BMW is a big company and I am sure there are not idiotic enough to NOT include a manual option for a driver oriented M1/1M....the vehicles you named above are realistically not being track by everyday users...

[Red Bread]

I'd hope you're right, but don't underestimate the power of DSG and Euro F1 fans to screw this up for us all. Look no further than the F458 for a car killed by bad marketing decisions. I trust BMW to follow Porsche's lead and retain manuals for the sportier cars, but I do worry that the days of three pedal cars are becoming scarce. No, it probably won't effect the M1, but I'm just starting my whining early.