Would the M1 really be worth the money?

[Evice]

Although we are so excited, I have a feeling that M1 or 1M will just be 135is...not a true M car..I hope I am very wrong.

[jeremyc74]

There are just too many things we don't know at this point to make a reasonable comparision.

We don't know what the M1 will cost. We don't know exactly how much power it will have. We don't know what kind of interior options will be offered. We don't know how much it will weigh. We don't know how much wider tires it will accept. We don't know what improvements will be made to the braking system, and we don't know how well it will perform on a track.

You can make a 335i faster than an M3 if you want to.......but is it really worth it?

[Rickster311]

Love the replies guys. I wasn't implying that that the M1 wasn't worth it - just wanted to see some opinions/comments.

I think the biggest factor as a user mentioned previously is: If the M1 will have unique features that cannot be added to the 135i without heavy investment (CF Roof, different fenders). A simple aero kit can always be purchased and slapped on a 135i for a "fake out M1", but fenders/roof are very difficult and not effective.

Secondly, a user mentioned a JB on a M1, well fact is since it's the same motor, the M1 with a JB - I would assume - would be as powerful as a 135i JB turned motor. The 350hp, 50hp increase, is due most likely to tuning, but when overridden with a new ECU tune - I doubt it would still have the 50hp gain? Just a thought.

Personally, I've been waiting for a M1 to come out, I suppose I'm just a bit disappointed it'd be so expensive. Essentially an M1 would be almost as much as the new 335is, which has an overboost feature, and only 10 less hp, but most likely more TQ with overboost.

Personally, I think low-mid 40's would make it a great selling car, high 40's may scare some away and consider a LIGHTLY used M3, or the 335is?

[Ramos]

Dude, your logic is wrong... BMW cannot make it too cheap because it would cannibalize not only 135 sales, but also M3 sales... And also the engine is not the same with just different tuning as you say..
It will have two turbos and much much much better cooling from the factory

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Rickster311

Love the replies guys. I wasn't implying that that the M1 wasn't worth it - just wanted to see some opinions/comments.

I think the biggest factor as a user mentioned previously is: If the M1 will have unique features that cannot be added to the 135i without heavy investment (CF Roof, different fenders). A simple aero kit can always be purchased and slapped on a 135i for a "fake out M1", but fenders/roof are very difficult and not effective.

Secondly, a user mentioned a JB on a M1, well fact is since it's the same motor, the M1 with a JB - I would assume - would be as powerful as a 135i JB turned motor. The 350hp, 50hp increase, is due most likely to tuning, but when overridden with a new ECU tune - I doubt it would still have the 50hp gain? Just a thought.

Personally, I've been waiting for a M1 to come out, I suppose I'm just a bit disappointed it'd be so expensive. Essentially an M1 would be almost as much as the new 335is, which has an overboost feature, and only 10 less hp, but most likely more TQ with overboost.

Personally, I think low-mid 40's would make it a great selling car, high 40's may scare some away and consider a LIGHTLY used M3, or the 335is?

IT IS NOT THE SAME MOTOR.

[adc]

Originally Posted by grant

The 3 things that I anticipate with most excitement with the M1 are not easily retrofitted to the 135i:

1. Carbon Fiber roof instead of the compulsory sun roof glass and steel roof (too heavy and robs headroom).

2. Electronically controlled M Differential (yes, there are aftermarket diffs, but I expect the M diff to be better integrated into the chassis tuning).

3. Better steering feel. Not sure the M1 will deliver here, but I hope so. Aftermarket suspension can offer better handling, but steering feel is achieved through steering rack, bushings, power assist tuning, etc.

Power is cheaply added to the 135i, but I think that there's much more to the M1 than that.

I also expect the additional cooling of the M1 to allow more tuning headroom than with the 135i.

+1.

Also, I doubt there will be many twin-turbo N55 aftermarket kits out there - remember the M1 is supposedly using a variant of the N55 with a twin turbo setup (could even be sequential, who knows).


By the time you add the power, cooling, braking, suspension, wheels/tires, cosmetic/aero, limited slip and some nice interior upgrades, the modified 135i would likely be more expensive than an M1. This doesn't take into account the resale value, desirability factor or potential warranty issues.

M1 all the way.

[adc]

Originally Posted by titancrusher1

If/When BMW releases the M1, it's going to be bye bye M3 for a lot of Bimmer enthusiasts

Yep, I'm one of those guys seriously considering a switch to the M1 - provided BMW bakes all the right oily bits into that car.

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by adc

+1.

By the time you add the power, cooling, braking, suspension, wheels/tires, cosmetic/aero, limited slip and some nice interior upgrades, the modified 135i would likely be more expensive than an M1. This doesn't take into account the resale value, desirability factor or potential warranty issues.

M1 all the way.

True that...right now I have ~17k in mods done to my car (including labor/paint/etc...) on top of the 41k cost of the car so the car cost now is near 60 grand....the M1 should cost considerably less than that.....

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by adc

+1.
By the time you add the power, cooling, braking, suspension, wheels/tires, cosmetic/aero, limited slip and some nice interior upgrades, the modified 135i would likely be more expensive than an M1. This doesn't take into account the resale value, desirability factor or potential warranty issues.

M1 all the way.

Ditto!

[FJUNO78]

Originally Posted by Rickster311

Assuming the M1 is about $47,000, and a base 135i is $36,000, we are talking about a $11,000 difference.

The reality of it is we can get a 135i for under MSRP - lets say if you went 100% base, maybe $34,000? A M1 will be strictly MSRP or more..

So essentially we're talking about $13,000 difference.

For $13,000 - can't you mod a 135i into a M1 killer - and more?

$1,000 Vishnu/Proceed/Jb3
$3,000 Rims
$3,000 Bodykit (Aerokit, ect)
$2,500 Suspension
$500 Rixeffect Gauge
$500 Intake
$2,000 Exhaust

= $12,500 in modifications.

With all those, you'd be beyond 350hp, have a car that handled great, unique body styling, etc.

And even if you wanted to later buy the carbon fiber parts, I'm sure they would fit the 135i directly - which would cost additionally on the M1 anyways?

Just a thought.. but if the M1 is really 47k'ish - is it really justifiable spending the extra $11-13,000?

Thoughts?!

save the $6000 and don't do rims and body kit...

jb3, suspension, perf exhaust, chances are it will out perform the ///m1... but, it's not an ///m car, and never will be.

it's like when a fast and furious evo comes along side you and gets away from you.... would you rather have his car?

[bmwzone]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

This topic should be merged with M1 vs competition.
$50k opens up a lot of doors for cars, new and slightly used..
I'd personally wait for a few professional reviews before resuming this topic.

KBB trade-in on a 135i coupe stick is like 23-24k. I'll take a new 5.0 on a-plan for the 30k more it would cost to get into an "M1" "1M", whatever it supposedly is (with a whole 50hp increase). Two awesome driving experiences for the price of "1M".

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by Primo135

Yes, not the point.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Primo135

Go buy a $5,000 car and put $20K in mods into it.

I would do that in a heartbeat if financing allowed it. (But I am a mechanic at heart.) And I guarantee it would out do an M1.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

I would do that in a heartbeat if financing allowed it. (But I am a mechanic at heart.) And I guarantee it would out do an M1.

I understand your point--many cars could be tuned or modded to outdo many ///M cars...I think the point, to me, is to get that "right" level of performance and feel from the factory, hence rendering the modding bug unnecessary.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Cheers to that as well. But can you really escape the modding bug? I came from a civic Si, it had every mod available. 297hp. I bought the 1er because in 15mins I could add 100hp. I thought that I could just "set it and forget it". Afterall, it IS a BMW. How much would I need to mod it? Tell me why I have angel eyes, carbon diffuser in the mail, and brakes and springs in the garage.

Look how many stock M3's are on M3Post lol. I do understand you. We all want the best we can get from the factory. But it won't be good enough.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

Cheers to that as well. But can you really escape the modding bug? I came from a civic Si, it had every mod available. 297hp. I bought the 1er because in 15mins I could add 100hp. I thought that I could just "set it and forget it". Afterall, it IS a BMW. How much would I need to mod it? Tell me why I have angel eyes, carbon diffuser in the mail, and brakes and springs in the garage.

Look how many stock M3's are on M3Post lol. I do understand you. We all want the best we can get from the factory. But it won't be good enough.

I was hoping that this time, it would be different, with the ///M1 anyway...

I too, have had the modding bug with the 135...but I also get worried about warranty concerns, and so I have taken almost all of it off....which is probably why I am even more bored than before....

I test drove the Cayman S when my pops was in the process of buying his ///M Coupe back in 2007...and that car seemed to be just about perfect...I could not have imagined needing to do anything to it besides washing it....and that was what I was hoping the ///M1 would be.....

I like your use of "set it and forget it". Nice.

[simianspeedster]

One perspective that may not have been mentioned yet: a large percentage of U.S. BMW buyers (not sure about other markets) lease their cars, and that includes M cars. If a nicely factory modded car costs $5-10K more than its mainstream equivalent, it's very attractive to those of us who usually lease. Why?

For one thing, modifying a leased car then returning it to stock would be a PITA for all but the most motivated buyers with time to perform or manage all the mods on both ends.

Perhaps more importantly, when you lease a car like a 335is or M1 over a 335i or 135i, you don't pay the full difference in price. 3 year leases have residuals in the mid to high 50% range, so you'll likely pay less than half the difference over the duration of the lease. Also, BMWNA might offer special lease incentives on these models because they recognize that their prices could otherwise creep into markets where people can consider cars with more status, etc.

In short, if you're already looking to lease a 335i or 135i and you can get a 335is or 135i for $50-$100 more per month, it can be relatively easy to pull that trigger.

-simianspeedster

[RäDIOCLäSH]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

Cheers to that as well. But can you really escape the modding bug? I came from a civic Si, it had every mod available. 297hp. I bought the 1er because in 15mins I could add 100hp. I thought that I could just "set it and forget it". Afterall, it IS a BMW. How much would I need to mod it? Tell me why I have angel eyes, carbon diffuser in the mail, and brakes and springs in the garage.

Look how many stock M3's are on M3Post lol. I do understand you. We all want the best we can get from the factory. But it won't be good enough.

Well said.This is what ends up happening (even after I promise my wife that this one wont need mods). I think people that truly love driving,will truly wont to go faster,and turn better(insatiable).The unique factor is always a motivator as well.Why have the same stock car as some other guy?No matter what brand we're talking about, a car is an expression of the person.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue

Cheers to that as well. But can you really escape the modding bug? I came from a civic Si, it had every mod available. 297hp. I bought the 1er because in 15mins I could add 100hp. I thought that I could just "set it and forget it". Afterall, it IS a BMW. How much would I need to mod it? Tell me why I have angel eyes, carbon diffuser in the mail, and brakes and springs in the garage.

Look how many stock M3's are on M3Post lol. I do understand you. We all want the best we can get from the factory. But it won't be good enough.

I'm with you on that one mate. The extra 100hp for $500 was a deal breaker for me. I grew up dreaming about owning an E46 M3 so the 135i was a modern, civilised version of that car. I thought all I would do is chip the car but I'm finding that I've made a list of mods I want to do. Slowly but surely I'll get there and transform this little beast into a mini M3 and for a fraction of the costs. I'm enjoying the modding aspect except the expense part, I've learnt so much from these forums and it's so much fun!! No regrets here... until my hpfp fails!! doh

[sparoz]

As long as it has all the standard M treatment, it will be worth every cent.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Rickster311

Assuming the M1 is about $47,000, and a base 135i is $36,000, we are talking about a $11,000 difference.

The reality of it is we can get a 135i for under MSRP - lets say if you went 100% base, maybe $34,000? A M1 will be strictly MSRP or more..

So essentially we're talking about $13,000 difference.

For $13,000 - can't you mod a 135i into a M1 killer - and more?

$1,000 Vishnu/Proceed/Jb3
$3,000 Rims
$3,000 Bodykit (Aerokit, ect)
$2,500 Suspension
$500 Rixeffect Gauge
$500 Intake
$2,000 Exhaust

= $12,500 in modifications.

With all those, you'd be beyond 350hp, have a car that handled great, unique body styling, etc.

And even if you wanted to later buy the carbon fiber parts, I'm sure they would fit the 135i directly - which would cost additionally on the M1 anyways?

Just a thought.. but if the M1 is really 47k'ish - is it really justifiable spending the extra $11-13,000?

Thoughts?!

This is the age old question.

But the answer is still the same...................you will still only own a 135i, admittedly a very quick one because it still won't be an M car and it's secondhand value will reflect this come the time of resale, especially if it's got a body kit which I might add you could very well think is beautiful yet someone else might think it's awful.

Modification are well and good when you are looking to achieve a certain result but in every case they are a compromise compared to the equivalent factory offering.

I know such concerns only come from experience and as a youth I also pimped my rides at the start but when house and family responsibility came I soon realised that modding a car with a huge waste of money which would have been much better spent pushing me up the automotive ladder.

[LeoHammer]

would you prefer fake tits over perfectly round(firm) and equally sized natural ones?

[jmunro]

The M1 will definitely be worth the money. Now if the next gen M3 can put up a real fight with the GTR for $65k I might be game.