128i instead of a 135i?

[mleskovar]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

....My only point is, if the OP really wants a 135 but is holding back only because of the risk of HPFP failure, I say get the 135. If the OP is 100% satisfied with the 128 (and not just "settling for" the 128), the 128 is a great choice too.

The HPFP will be fixed and then he'll have the car he really wants.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by gnat

I appreciate everyone's opinions, but can we drop the "you should really get the 135" stuff. I am under no circumstances giving BMW (or anyone else) money for a known flawed product. I understand that you may disagree with my reasons, but I will not buy a 135.

The point of this thread was supposed to be to get the opinions of 128 owners that originally wanted the 135 but didn't get it, for whatever reason, and how they ended up feeling about the 128 in the long run.

Thanks,
-dave

No offense, Dave, but the thread title is "128i instead of a 135i?"

Question mark.

I'm not sure how you expect anyone else to tell you how you'll feel. Good luck with your purchase.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by The1

Thats a pretty blind way to look into purchasing a car. No matter what car you look at, there's going to be faws.

Of course every car has flaws. The issue here is that this is a relatively serious (numerous accounts of losing power at speed) issue, BMW knows about it, and they still haven't fixed it after a significant amount of time.

Blindly spending your money on a bad product just tells the manufacturer that you don't care they produce crap and gives them less incentive to fix it. I recognize that my lack of purchasing a 135 means little to BMW as a whole, but I certainly won't feel like I've bought a known problem on the off chance it actually gets fixed some time in the future.

I assume you won't touch toyota anymore because of the limited run of cars that ran away. Old hondas all had head gasket issues, surbarus go through clutches, volkswagon has a lot of issues, i'm not even going to get started on them....

I wouldn't buy a Toyota because their cars don't appeal to me. It has also yet to be proven that either the acceleration or brake issues are anything more than (on the whole, flukes will always happen) people being stupid. Furthermore, if Toyota produced a car that I did have an interest in, I have no issue with the brand as a whole as they (until this recent blow up) have a pretty strong reputation for reliability and response. BMW also has a strong reputation which is why I'm still willing to consider one of their non-turbo vehicles.

Not a fan of Honda's cars either, so I wouldn't consider them just on those grounds.

I had a Golf once so I know (now) about VW's issues which is why my wife and I "affectionately" call them Crap Wagons. I looked at the Jetta TDI when it came out and was reasonably impressed with it, but when I looked into it I found that VW still has a lot of the same issues with their cars so no I wouldn't buy it. That applies to Audi's too (as much as I really want to like the A3).

And frankly, had we known about the RMS issue (it wasn't a known issue at the time) and Porsche's response to it, we wouldn't have gotten her 996.

I'm sure the 128 has a problem that nobody has come across yet,

I'm sure it does and I fully accept and expect it. The difference is that at the time I am looking at purchasing there is not a multi-year history of a significant problem that BMW has done little about (extending a warranty does not resolve the issue).

I had an XK8 that was nothing but problems (but they were always different so the Lemon Law never applied). But if you look at XK8s on the whole at the time, they were pretty reliable (there was an issue with the cylinder lining, but Jaguar stepped up and fixed it without taking years). I just got a bad one. It sucked, but it happens. I'd buy another one if I didn't think they'd ruined the look of both the XJs and XKs.

My problem with the 135 has very little to do with the HPFP itself or that some random part might possibly fail. It is about BMW's response to the issue which has, in my opinion, been lacking.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by mleskovar

The HPFP will be fixed.

In 07 or 08 models (engine) I might have believed that and gone ahead with the 135 based on what I know of BMW's history. But we are now in the 11 model year with a brand new engine and the problem is still going on.

Yes I assume they will eventually find a fix for the issue, but the big question mark is when and what will it entail.

[MarkR171]

My problem with the 135 has very little to do with the HPFP itself or that some random part might possibly fail. It is about BMW's response to the issue which has, in my opinion, been lacking.

They've started putting in a different pump design in cars and so far none of these new "402" pumps have failed. That proves they're at least trying, and possibly have succeeded. So far I've heard of only one N55 failing, and reports are saying not all N55s got the new pump as there wasn't enough supply. Maybe the one that failed had the old pump design.

That being said, one of the main reasons I went with a 135 and didn't even consider a 128 is because I made the mistake in the past. I decided on a SLK280 instead of spending a bit more for the SLK350. After test driving an Audi A5 2.0T, I actually wanted that car, and with the salesman offering me invoice price on the spot being the last day of the month and 1 hour from closing time (possibly a good tip here actually) I was tempted. I went right back to the 135 a few days later as the design and interior of the A5 lost it's appeal the more I thought about the difference in power and the mistake I made in the past.

No one can tell you how you will feel. Have you driven both?

[TMR013]

Obviously lots of opinions, I'll add mine.

Both the 128 and 135 are great cars. Decide which one you like better through test drives and buy it.

Don't let the HPFP issue sway you. I'm flabbergasted when people on these forums purposely don't enjoy their cars because they worry about the HPFP. That's crazy! Despite all you read, it's still not a problem for the majority of 135's, and it's covered by the warrantee forever. Shouldn't even be considered in your decision.

[Schtuffy]

Originally Posted by gnat

She has had the fastest car in the family for almost 10 years now and I really wanted to change that (for less than half the price too!)

Are you not allowed to drive your wife's 996? I'm not sure a 135i is faster anyway. The Porsche is around 300 hp and about 400 lbs lighter... If you want the fastest car in the family you might want to look for something else in the first place.

If you're allowed to drive the 996 I'd be perfectly happy commuting in the 128i and occasionally thrashing the Porsche. We're the opposite. My wife drives the 128i, and plays with the STI when she wants something powerful. Don't need two 300+ hp rockets in the family.

[The1]

I like a car with risk...... i drove a Jeep Grand Cherokee about 10,000 miles on a trip i took back in april. The fun part about it was always wondering if i would ever need the spare tire that didn't come with the car when i bought it. but i guess that's what CAA is for.

I see what you're saying about the feeling of BMW seeming lazy about this, but the fact that they have identified the problem and increased the warranty, it shows they are being proactive in the whole situation. and that extended warranty does add a bit of piece of mind.

either way, I absolutely love my 1, and when i'm not doing something serious or sleeping, I'm pretty much able to be found in the car trying very very hard to behave behind the wheel. but my will power for behaviour when it comes to cars is hit and miss :-)

[gnat]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

They've started putting in a different pump design in cars and so far none of these new "402" pumps have failed.

I'm not arguing that they haven't done anything, just (in my opinion) not enough or quick enough.

From my understanding they have tried different pumps in the past. I really do hope that this pump fixes the issue just like I hoped the N55 wouldn't have the issue. I just don't think there is a reason to trust them on it yet.

So far I've heard of only one N55 failing, and reports are saying not all N55s got the new pump as there wasn't enough supply. Maybe the one that failed had the old pump design.

I absolutely concur with your assessment. But it also shows (weather it is just the old pump or not) that N55 owners are playing the same game of roulette as the N54 owners.

Have you driven both?

The 135 (N54) is the only one I've had significant time in. I have taken 11s (as well MT and DCT on the 135) for test drives. At that time I enjoyed them both (128 and 135) and believed I would be perfectly happy with the 128 if the HPFP issue didn't seem to be resolved by the time I put in my order (e.g. no N55s reporting failures by Sept).

What makes me question if I would still be happy with the 128 is that I got that week with the N54 and loved it (in spite of the STEP).

I understand no one can tell me how I will feel if I end up getting the 128. I was just looking for others similar experiences to help me gauge it (e.g. if everyone that had their heart set on the 135 and ended up with a 128 was universally upset). What I'm hearing (and honestly expected) is that while I might wish for the turbo when I want to show someone up, I'll be happy with it and not regret the decision.

The big part for me is that I've spent the better part of 2 years looking for something to be my "toy" car. I can afford to be picky since it's by no means a need for me, but it also means my field is significantly limited (Caymen's are more than I want to pay, 335d more than I want to pay and we already have a e9x, Audi's are overpriced VWs, EVOs and STIs just feel cheap and too young for me, etc..). Purely on the basis of the Roundel article that was mentioned earlier I looked into the 1 because what I REALLY want is another e30iX (but my current situation dictates that it needs to be essentially mint and those owners won't sell them (understandable IMHO)). I (surprisingly based on my view of her e90 and my view of it's price vs the 3 when the 1 first came out) decided I really liked the 1 and then after having the loaner felt the 135 was the one. So mainly I'm just wrestling with am I settling or not.

I won't say the 1 is perfect by any means, but for the price I don't think there is a better car to compare it to.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by Schtuffy

Are you not allowed to drive your wife's 996? I'm not sure a 135i is faster anyway. The Porsche is around 300 hp and about 400 lbs lighter... If you want the fastest car in the family you might want to look for something else in the first place.

Actually I've been driving it all week since she needs to clean all the sand out of my Escape after taking it to the beach for a week.

Based on the MFG numbers, the 135 is slightly (like .2s) faster than the 01 996. I have little doubt that stock vs stock on a real track with competent drivers the 996 would win out, but I think the 135 wins out (in my opinion) goofing around on the street.

While I appreciate what the 996 is and can do, I actually don't like driving it that much. Of course it's fun, but it just doesn't fit me.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by The1

but my will power for behaviour when it comes to cars is hit and miss :-)

We may not agree on my objections to the 135, but I can agree with you on this.

Driving the 135 loaner was very "miss"

[bradleyland]

I'll share my experience with compromise, and you can see if it resonates with you. If it doesn't, then I'd say you're probably pretty safe going with the 128i.

Every time I've compromised on a car purchase (or any big purchase), I've regretted it. I did it once with my first "new" car, and most recently with a 2006 GTI. I bought a "pack zero" car, which basically means no options. After a while, the little things started bugging me. Fore example, the 17" wheels started looking kind of smallish, and I had to look at them every day. When I look back, I realized that I could have spent a little bit more to get what I really wanted, and I just wanted to kick myself. I learned that lesson on my first car, but somehow forgot it.

To make up for it, I special ordered my 135i exactly the way I wanted it. I've only had the car for a month, but every time I walk up and the doors unlock when I touch the door handle... every time I swing the door open and see the contrasting coral red and black door panel... every time I push the start button and leave the door open to hear the growl of the engine... every time I grip the manual shift gear-lever... every time I roll on the accelerator at three-quarters throttle and realize that I've got even more on tap, I realize that this is how I want to feel when I spend my hard earned money.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

To make up for it, I special ordered my 135i exactly the way I wanted it. I've only had the car for a month, but every time I walk up and the doors unlock when I touch the door handle... every time I swing the door open and see the contrasting coral red and black door panel... every time I push the start button and leave the door open to hear the growl of the engine... every time I grip the manual shift gear-lever... every time I roll on the accelerator at three-quarters throttle and realize that I've got even more on tap, I realize that this is how I want to feel when I spend my hard earned money.

Exactly my experience, minus the manual lever and lemon instead of coral red!

Guilty of the bolded bit too!

[boostm3]

I actually never was able to get a test drive in a 135i with the MT as I wanted to buy it... No dealer in my area had any in stock... One had a cpo '08 vert with the stick and sport pkg, and I had an appt to test drive it, but when I got there, they told me it had just been sold 10 minutes before I got there.. So, I had to satisfy myself with test drving a 335i awd sedan... Didnt much like it either; it kind of felt like a strongish buick!

Later, i got to test drive a 128i cpe with stick, and Ive got to say, i was very impressed. I was able to check out the trunk size, and the cabin, and the shifter which I thought was very good.. and all I said to myself was, 'man this is quicker than I expected .. now, just imagine what this car will be like with 70 more horses and 100 more ft lbs!!!', and right then and there, I negotiated a sensational deal on an '11 cpe... Now Im drooling waiting for delivery... I think factory may be closed for one more week, and tracking shows me the car is scheduled, but not started yet.. Thing is, I sold my sc m3 4 days later, and my buyer will wait til end of Oct to take delivery, but he really shouldnt have to wait any longer than that as i was told mine would be here by end of Oct... can hardly wait.

Like some of you, ive been obsessing slightly over the HPFP isses, and also, the carbon buildup on the valves that direct injection engines can be prone to. But, while the 128 would probably cheaper to own in the long run, I just couldnt bring myself to make the 'sensible' decision while there was a 135i MT cpe out there to buy. The 135i hit almost all my wants better than any other vehicle I had considered, so in the end, thats the one I put the deposit on, even though the 128i felt like really nice little car also.. In addition, it didnt hurt that the 135i comes with sport suspension (making the sport pkgs less expensive since it doesnt have to add it) and 18" rims doesnt hurt. The 'Value Pkg' is offered on each, so that couldnt be seen as a differentiating factor; maybe between the 1 and the 3! Maybe if there were no 135i the 128 would have been the car du jour! Had I gone that route, I was also shopping GTI, and even though I liked the GTI, I think the 128 would have won the day.

[cvandenhaute]

I drove both end to end and on a closed course I must admit the 135i is hard to beat, the torque is addictive and the sound is deeper. If money would have been endless and my drivers license not in danger everytime I drive, the question would never even be asked.

However I wanted a car delivering joy in the real world, I do not track it and I use it mainly for my commute and WE escapades and I have to say it is a darn good car for that (with the manual, I really did not like it in auto), I think it offers a lot to play with and makes it fun at legal speed. It loves to rev.

These are truly 2 different cars with their pros and cons and you have to find what suits your real needs and wishes. The 135i feels more "muscle car" with the abondant torque, it is great, it is fun but in the meantime I find it frustrating since you can only use a tiny bit of it in the real world. The 128i at the other hand is more linear, more balanced (in my opinion), more "true to its roots". I personally wanted to find something giving me the same kind of fun as my 2007 MX5 1.8 -european version- (fun does not mean power for me since I absolutely hated my '08 VW R32 that was twice the power of the MX5 (250 vs 126).

The 128i is a great little package, a car true to its roots, that I love to play with during my commute (all tough I did not explore the zone above 6000rpm since I am still breaking it in).

At the end of the day it is you, your fun and what you really want to do with the car I believe. 128i works for me all the way

[tpg22]

In the end it is up to you. I bought the 135 because of the looks. To me from the front and rear the two cars look nothing alike. The engine was a bonus. I had no desire to add the aero package to the 128. From a cost stand point that made no sense to me. One thing I have noticed. When I drive the 135 I actually enjoy hitting all of the red lights. The dealership where I bought the car has taken care of everything so far. I believe if in the next 10 years the HPFP goes they will take care of that too. I have never gotten in the car and said "man I wish I had the 128".

[JB135MDCT]

128ers have awoken. 2 days and how many responses?

Sure, the 135 goto jail speeds come up fast, but then you can brake just as fast.

I love NA I6 and priced the 128 and 135. You end up paying 2500 for the motor, and this is a no brainer. Try pricing a 128 with oem brembo brakes, M sport, leather, ipod, etc, and your eyes will explode. The headache will set in when you realize you made a mistake buying the 128. At least it is an awesome car.

Totally jealous about the sunroof as an option, one reason I might upgrade to an M1.

[Blader]

Will you be happy with a 128i instead of a 135i ....... Sure

In Australia the price difference is about $20,000AUD.... that is about $17,800USD at today's exchange rate so we are not comparing apples with apples here but I have a 2 month old 125i Convertible with the M Sport Pack, 18" M261 Wheels and the HK Sound System.

So I have the sport suspension with a manual transmission in a car that is lighter overall and critically lighter in the front end than a 135i. It steers more sweetly and understeers less than a 135i. The manual transmission gives the car a more sporting edge and that straight six revs to 7,000rpm and sounds sweet doing it.

It may not be as quick in a straight line but I reckon it handles a little better and as most of my driving is around town I don't need to be any quicker than the 125i is now.

I used to have a Lotus Elise...... so I enjoy having to put a little effort into getting some performance out of my cars and to this end the 125i fits the bill very well.

[m_thompson]

Originally Posted by tpg22

In the end it is up to you. I bought the 135 because of the looks. To me from the front and rear the two cars look nothing alike.

That is why I ordered the M-Sport package on my 128i. I even get fog lights with the "135i look".

[tgxmike]

Originally Posted by mrcardio

I wouldn't exactly call the 128i slow (0-60: 5.9sec / 1/4: 14.5@97) but compared to the 135i it sort of is. I would just have a hard time dealing with the fact that 22k econoboxes w/ FI (WRX, GTI, Ralliart, MS3, Cobalt, etc) would be faster than me if I bought a 128i "Sorry hun I'm going as fast as I can!!! " I know it’s not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things, just a bit embarrassing. I’m sure it would be plenty fun to drive minus those scenarios though. The lower cost is very tempting but I think it’ll be worth it to spend the extra crash on the N55 equipped car w/ sport package. How’s that new DCT transmission? Is it just like the M3’s?

My take on 128i compared to the econoboxes. I have the performance suspension (skipped the sport package, because I'm minimalist and already liked the base seats). And added some 205/50/17 hankook v12 tires. There is not a (stock) subaru that can corner like my car anywhere, and the evo gets a run for it money too. Still marginally slower in a straight line, but with the 6MT, barely. And rear wheel takes off like a rocket compared to the AWD cars.


In 2009, the 128i was frankly cheaper (moon roof include, no upgraded electrical, and better stereo (I think this is back for 2011)).

My opinion, 128i 6MT + performance suspension+ tire/wheels +cold weather package (depending on location) and you are set.

My car price...

30,980 car + cold pkg (non-metalic paint, and leatherette)
2700 suspension (lees if you order it ~$2000)
1100 Tire/Wheel/TPMS

34,780 total for a rocketship that is a thrill everyday.

[roo97ss]

Originally Posted by tgxmike

My take on 128i compared to the econoboxes. I have the performance suspension (skipped the sport package, because I'm minimalist and already liked the base seats). And added some 205/50/17 hankook v12 tires. There is not a (stock) subaru that can corner like my car anywhere, and the evo gets a run for it money too. Still marginally slower in a straight line, but with the 6MT, barely. And rear wheel takes off like a rocket compared to the AWD cars.

two issues here. glad you liked the non sport seats however most would say the sport seats are the best thing about a bmw. I would never purposefully skip them.

Launches harder than an awd. You are joking right. An open diff rear end vs awd is no contest. And yes straight line vs wrx is close. But a second in the quarter is a big difference with the up level sti and evo. Plus remember tunes are cheap hp for the turbo cars.

Also I would say a stock sti would be a match for cornering, sure it would not feel as good awd never does but its forgiving and damn fast.

[The1]

+1 a lot of people underestimate the handling on AWD turbo cars. I think the common mistake is the feel because of the long travel suspension on those cars.

the AWDers don't corner as smoothly, but they will give you a hell of a run for your money on any track unless you've modified your suspension.

In my WRX with winter tires and a few mods, a full tank of gas, and stereo in the car, i did a 1.6 second 60' time and ran a 13.2 something way back, and that was the simple modifications. Shortly after I added about 130 more wheel horsepower and a 6 speed transmission, cars with similar setups were doing 12.3-12.4


I've heard of people doing 1.7-1.8 second 60 foot times on the stock setups. a rear wheel drive car needs really really sticky tires or slicks to get anywhere near that.

Never pull up beside EVOs and WRX/STi and assume your car is faster. Just hope you are....