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      04-24-2018, 07:28 PM   #881
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
If there is God, a god, or gods, their activities would ultimately be explainable scientifically, thus science and Gods aren't mutually exclusive.
Your logic is flawed, because science simply represents what man understands. Science does not apply until it does.

So to say that faith, hunches, opinion or future science don't have their place in the space beyond what science has affirmed, and to ridicule one over the other is junior at best.

Try explaining how the precision of stone cutting in machu picchu was done in comparison to not so recent modern views that said we all came from apes. If you believe aliens or giants did it, what proof do you have over a God? Perhaps the realities all blend together...
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      04-24-2018, 07:32 PM   #882
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That's correct, but the claim was that since science has not proven God, then he does not exist.
I don't think that was the case, unless I've missed something.
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      04-24-2018, 09:19 PM   #883
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Originally Posted by m3jala View Post
Your logic is flawed, because science simply represents what man understands. Science does not apply until it does.
No, not flawed and not even logic, I'm just reciting the definitions ... plus I think you said exactly what I did.

There is no "science vs God" - that's like saying "The French Language vs Occam's Razor". One is a language and one is a principle of philosophy.

Science is simply a language which can describe anything including God - it just might not be able to do it well, such as there is no english word for the Danish concept of Hygge, but we can still use science to investigate, observe, and experiment God.

If a scientific investigation of God is not conclusive it simply means we have no repeatable predictive theory of God ... which is entirely different from saying there is no God, but science is still describing God, just not well.

Show me someone arguing there is no God because science, and I'll show you someone who doesn't understand what science is.
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      04-24-2018, 10:40 PM   #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
No, not flawed and not even logic, I'm just reciting the definitions ... plus I think you said exactly what I did.

There is no "science vs God" - that's like saying "The French Language vs Occam's Razor". One is a language and one is a principle of philosophy.

Science is simply a language which can describe anything including God - it just might not be able to do it well, such as there is no english word for the Danish concept of Hygge, but we can still use science to investigate, observe, and experiment God.

If a scientific investigation of God is not conclusive it simply means we have no repeatable predictive theory of God ... which is entirely different from saying there is no God, but science is still describing God, just not well.

Show me someone arguing there is no God because science, and I'll show you someone who doesn't understand what science is.
Yes, yes, yes. I liked something you wrote. The earth is spinning off its axis. It will all be fine.
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      04-24-2018, 10:50 PM   #885
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Yes, yes, yes. I liked something you wrote. The earth is spinning off its axis. It will all be fine.

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      04-24-2018, 11:33 PM   #886
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
No, not flawed and not even logic, I'm just reciting the definitions ... plus I think you said exactly what I did.

There is no "science vs God" - that's like saying "The French Language vs Occam's Razor". One is a language and one is a principle of philosophy.

Science is simply a language which can describe anything including God - it just might not be able to do it well, such as there is no english word for the Danish concept of Hygge, but we can still use science to investigate, observe, and experiment God.

If a scientific investigation of God is not conclusive it simply means we have no repeatable predictive theory of God ... which is entirely different from saying there is no God, but science is still describing God, just not well.

Show me someone arguing there is no God because science, and I'll show you someone who doesn't understand what science is.
Are you talking about a hypothetical scientific investigation that's describing God or did I miss something again?

Before anyone could even attempt to describe or prove a God scientifically they would first need to define what God is, which from what I can tell would be a serious struggle since most theists seems to have a very personal view on that. Then there's the case of which God is being proven, which would be a very....interesting discussion in itself.
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      04-25-2018, 09:21 AM   #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
Are you talking about a hypothetical scientific investigation that's describing God or did I miss something again?

Before anyone could even attempt to describe or prove a God scientifically they would first need to define what God is, which from what I can tell would be a serious struggle since most theists seems to have a very personal view on that. Then there's the case of which God is being proven, which would be a very....interesting discussion in itself.
I got kinda lost there myself, but I think I get what everybody is trying to say again.
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      04-25-2018, 10:01 AM   #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zlaatan View Post
Are you talking about a hypothetical scientific investigation that's describing God or did I miss something again?

Before anyone could even attempt to describe or prove a God scientifically they would first need to define what God is, which from what I can tell would be a serious struggle since most theists seems to have a very personal view on that. Then there's the case of which God is being proven, which would be a very....interesting discussion in itself.
Yup to all. We could use science to investigate God and yes we would have to define it, maybe similar to Dark Matter (which itself is undefined but more a description for an effect, i.e., physical phenomena we observe but we don't know what's causing it). Taking it one step further, let's say there was direct evidence of God turning water to wine or whatever - there could be a scientific explanation of that too.

Actually I think there was an investigation into some holy water and found it had some different composition from normal H2O but I don't remember the details, just remember reading about it.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      04-25-2018, 11:09 AM   #889
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And what about the God particle? Funny that science is imbuing (is that correct?) particles with theist principles.
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      04-25-2018, 04:27 PM   #890
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And what about the God particle? Funny that science is imbuing (is that correct?) particles with theist principles.
but that's the whole thing: it's not funny for people that understand science, because those people realize how truly little we understand compared to how mind-blowingly much there is.

More specifically, our bodies (and everything we see) actually don't exist at the smallest scales, and we can't account where the mass comes from at larger scales - the Higgs proves how this happens, thus it accounts for us being here.

More worrisome, aberrations in the Higgs field may cause a vacuum bubble that destroys the universe.

So there's that.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      04-25-2018, 05:42 PM   #891
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
but that's the whole thing: it's not funny for people that understand science, because those people realize how truly little we understand compared to how mind-blowingly much there is.

More specifically, our bodies (and everything we see) actually don't exist at the smallest scales, and we can't account where the mass comes from at larger scales - the Higgs proves how this happens, thus it accounts for us being here.

More worrisome, aberrations in the Higgs field may cause a vacuum bubble that destroys the universe.

So there's that.
Not to mention that we can't even figure out where the universe ends. And if it does, what's on the other side.
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      04-25-2018, 06:50 PM   #892
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Why don't we just ask 1MOREMOD ????? He's been to the other side, and knows where all the dark matter is hiding
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      04-25-2018, 07:16 PM   #893
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Why don't we just ask 1MOREMOD ????? He's been to the other side, and knows where all the dark matter is hiding
He mustíve watched all of the Star Wars movies. With popcorn.
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      04-25-2018, 08:46 PM   #894
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It's between our politicians ears
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      04-25-2018, 08:52 PM   #895
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Not to mention that we can't even figure out where the universe ends. And if it does, what's on the other side.
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      04-25-2018, 09:38 PM   #896
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I want whatever you guys are smokin'
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      04-25-2018, 09:56 PM   #897
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I want whatever you guys are smokin'
Tires or cigars, my friend.
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      04-25-2018, 11:34 PM   #898
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hadn't thought about cigars
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