Considering 128i

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Fume

One thing I would add to N51 vs N52 if you plan to autocross is that if you want to compete in STX, it's nice that the N51 comes with the 3 stage intake manifold as it is illegal to modify that without getting bumped up to street prepared (where 128i is not competitive).

Hmmm... Interesting. Considering doing some AX but not sure I'll go all out competitive. Didn't realize it'd matter one vs the other in terms of mods allowed. Mostly I'm building a daily driver w/ +graded capabilities

[champignon]

2008 is a 7-8 year old car. From a collector's standpoint, it's a baby, and 43K miles is nothing.

More practically speaking, I can't see your attraction to the 128i if in fact you want a fun to drive car that is an automatic. I have test driven 2 different 128is, both in San Diego, separated by several months. The first one was a 2008, very spartan in options, and the seconds was a 2013 with a sports package. Both had 6MT. The first one reeked of cigarette smoke and had been poorly cared for plus had audio modifications making it look like a teenager's car; the 2nd one was more or less pristine.

As you can tell by the listing of my cars, I have 3 1-Series cars, all more powerful than a 128i, but in all honesty I could enjoy a 128i also if it had a manual transmission. With an automatic, I'd run, not walk, to the nearest exist. There simply are not enough horsepower in the car to overcome the deficit from a so-so automatic transmission (as opposed to the DCT available on the 135i models). Think about the last time you rented a Corolla or a cheap Hyundai, if you want an in your face comparison.

Buying a 128i with an AT negates all the potential goodness you could get from a 1-Series. If you don't care about performance, have at it, but then realize you are buying a glorified econobox, that will be more troublesome from a maintenance standpoint than the cheap Japanese and Korean econoboxes which will upstage it.

Nonetheless, enjoy whatever you buy!

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Not interested in a Subaru Sti. Not a teenager anymore & looking for something with soul & style not something that feels like it's plastic.

STi vs. 128i with an automatic?

You have got to be joking!

[Cal]

Originally Posted by champignon

STi vs. 128i with an automatic?

You have got to be joking!

Agreed. Performance-wise, a WRX would be an even better choice than an AT 128i, let alone an STI.

OP, between those two options, I'd opt for the 08 128i with 43k miles, especially since it's equipped with the M-sport package. That package is even more rare than the regular sports package.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Cal

Agreed. Performance-wise, a WRX would be an even better choice than an AT 128i, let alone an STI.

OP, between those two options, I'd opt for the 08 128i with 43k miles, especially since it's equipped with the M-sport package. That package is even more rare than the regular sports package.

I neglected to mention the WRX (as opposed to the WRX-STi), with the obvious fact that you can buy a WRX (not STi) with an automatic as opposed to the WRX-STi which comes only as a manual.

People like to badmouth Subarus as cheap plasticy cars, but the fact is that whatever they cheap out on in the interior, they more than make up for in the mechanics.

I owned a BRZ (brother to the Toyota FRS) for a year, and yes, that was a cheap plasticky piece of shit, that I could not wait to get rid of. But the modern STi and the modern WRX are not cheap plasticky cars, and disparaging them as such only shows the ignorance of someone posting the same.

I have now owned 4 Subarus, and still own a 2015 STi as part of my car "stable." It is not my favorite car, in fact it is my least favorite car, while also being my most practical car, if only because it has 4 doors and a bigger trunk. It is also rather noisy, and somewhat rough in driving compared to my 3, 1-Series BMWs.

But is it a teenager's car? Give me a break. I don't know many teenagers who could come close to affording it, although the reality is that younger males seeing my cars always comment on the STi, and never on the BMWs.

WRX or WRX-STi vs. an automatic transmission 128i? Who are you kidding? The Subarus would wipe the floor with that 128i, and the 128i wouldn't even be visible in the rear view mirror 15 seconds after take off.

[Gangplank]

Well personally I'll probably never own another Subaru. People love them but not my gig.


Ok I'll bite. Is a 135 as reliable long term as a 128?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Well personally I'll probably never own another Subaru. People love them but not my gig.


Ok I'll bite. Is a 135 as reliable long term as a 128?

My guess is, probably NOT.

But there is no reliable data, especially if you are talking 2011+, e.g. N55 rather than N54. The N54 had some issues, especially with the high pressure fuel pump, and BMW & their N54 engines were not the only cars afflicted with this problem (think any diesel VW sold in the recent past in N. America, among others).

But getting back to an earlier part of this thread that you started, I would not buy a BMW, that is ANY BMW, if reliability was the be all and end of the car purchase. BMW never has had a reputation for making trouble-free, reliable vehicles. The issues come and go, but certainly the most common ones are problems with water pumps, cooling systems, electrical wiring, and electronics. These cars are full of gremlins if you get unlucky.

So, it is an issue of trade-offs. If what one wants is a luxury car that is reliable and drives like a Camry, there are multiple really good choices, none of them German, and most or all Japanese (think Lexus, Acura, and maybe Infinity).

If what one wants is a performance car that is fun to drive with some luxury features, then one is entering what used to be BMW territory. I am saying "what used to be" because the current models have lost their soul and had a "fun-to-drive-ectomy." So just go with a Camry or a Lexus or whatever if you are shopping new, current model, vehicles.

But if you are looking for what BMW used to excel at, a fun to drive responsive car with some luxury features, with the added risk of maybe becoming very well acquainted with your dealership service advisor, than a BMW 135i could be just the ticket for you!

Pretty soon, you will be on a first name basis, and exchanging baby pictures with your BMW service advisor, while fuming inside about the minor issues on your 135i (that unfortunately cost as much to fix as major issues on a Japanese car). But it is all fun, trust me! And it makes for great stories to tell at your next social get together.

I am not making any of this up.

good night!

[Gangplank]

Friend, we get it. You only like 6MT & don't care for the 128. Your bring a bit of a troll so give it a rest. Your arguing w/ yourself.

As far as BMWs this would be my 4th. My X5 was one of the more reliable cars I've owned. The N52/51 motor is probably one of the more reliable units that BMW built. The n62 in my 545i not so much. The N54 clearly has issues. N55 is still pricey used so in all honesty people will probably opt for a 2 series instead at this point.

[Black Prinz]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

The 135i reliability concerns me. I've got a 545i now. I'm not looking to replace it with something else with potential problems.

I'm looking to build up a daily driver that handles fantastic & has a reasonable fun factor.

From one E60-N62 owner to another, may the gods bless your gaskets and seals and keep the expensive repairs at bay.

As an E82-N51 owner for the reasons you are seeking, I am pleased with the fact that it has been exactly what I expected unproblematic & comfortable; even if it isn't the best stoplight warrior.

[Ric in RVA]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

The one above is 2013 w/ 23.5k mi & CPO warranty until 4/30/2018.

I found another that looks good. This one is an 08 n52 w/ 43k but not CPO & no warranty. It's equipped almost the same but is looks to be an M-sport w/ comfort access. This one costs $2000 less.

2SL ALLOY WHEELS STAR SPOKE 262/MB
2XA SPORTS LEATH.STEERING WHEEL+GEAR
249 MULTI-FUNCTION FOR STEERING WHEEL
319 INTEGRATED UNIVERSAL REMOTE CONTROL
322 COMFORT ACCESS
481 SPORT SEATS F DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
488 LUMBAR SUPPORT DRIVER/FRONT PASSENGER
676 HIFI LOUDSPEAKER SYSTEM
704 M SPORT SUSPENSION

You will not regret seeking out the M Sport seats and suspension. Do it.

What colors?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Friend, we get it. You only like 6MT & don't care for the 128. Your bring a bit of a troll so give it a rest. Your arguing w/ yourself.

As far as BMWs this would be my 4th. My X5 was one of the more reliable cars I've owned. The N52/51 motor is probably one of the more reliable units that BMW built. The n62 in my 545i not so much. The N54 clearly has issues. N55 is still pricey used so in all honesty people will probably opt for a 2 series instead at this point.

Actually, you don't seem to get what I am saying, so I apologize for repeating myself.

I like the 128i, just it is near to impossible to find a reasonably priced example outfitted the way that I personally would like, which would be 6MT with a sports package.

Nonetheless, I can appreciate that other people do not necessarily share my taste, and love for manual transmissions is not universal.

That having been said, a 128i with an automatic transmission is an oxymoran; the lack of power with the AT negates whatever sportiness may be in the vehicle. If that is what you seek, I suggest you buy one, as only you know what will make you happy.

Your prior history with BMWs should mean that you do not have to go onto a public forum soliciting opinions on the reliability of a car; you should already know that and as such should value your own experience and opinion over random other people who may post in response to your "appearing-to-be-newbie" type questions.

[Gangplank]

I get it, but I wasn't really asking about the reliability of the 128i. I was asking about the real difference between N51 SULEV vs. N52 non. And later on the reliability vs. 135i.

None of which are new questions. If you believe the forums and complaints the 135 is playing roulette, which anyone who has owed an E60 knows all too well. Not interested in buying a car that needs $2k maint. per year again. Love how the E60 handles w/ its leaks are absurd.

Originally Posted by Gangplank

I'm thinking about picking up a 128i. I'm looking at one locally that's a 2012 CPO but it's an N51 SULEV. What are the differences between N51 SULEV vs N52?

Looks to be equipped pretty well w/ what I find important, but I'm not exactly sure what packages are on it after running the vin. Doing some research on that right now. ;-)

From that you went whole hog on the 6MT, AT never, get a 135i or Sti. Which led to me giving my opinion that a BMW w/ premium pkg, cold weather pkg, navigation, leather heated seats, lumbar, bluetooth + CPO to 2018 or 100k... is a car I like vs. a Sti (cost more) or WRX which is slightly faster & might handle similarly but (to me) doesn't feel the same quality interior. Driven one and just not a fan.

Originally Posted by champignon

Actually, you don't seem to get what I am saying, so I apologize for repeating myself.

....

Nonetheless, I can appreciate that other people do not necessarily share my taste, and love for manual transmissions is not universal.

.....

Your prior history with BMWs should mean that you do not have to go onto a public forum soliciting opinions on the reliability of a car; you should already know that and as such should value your own experience and opinion over random other people who may post in response to your "appearing-to-be-newbie" type questions.

Don't see what was Newbie about my questions but all good. Your posts don't make you sound like an expert in what I was asking but I do appreciate your opinions just the same. Thanks bud.

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by Black Prinz

From one E60-N62 owner to another, may the gods bless your gaskets and seals and keep the expensive repairs at bay.

As an E82-N51 owner for the reasons you are seeking, I am pleased with the fact that it has been exactly what I expected unproblematic & comfortable; even if it isn't the best stoplight warrior.

Yep you seem to know exactly why I'm looking to make the switch... :-)

Originally Posted by Ric in RVA

You will not regret seeking out the M Sport seats and suspension. Do it.

What colors?

Car I'm looking at is "space gray metalic" which is my favorite color except the brown metalic but I can't fond one equipped right.

The suspension is a want but there is always the BMW Perf. Susp. upgrade right :-)

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Well personally I'll probably never own another Subaru. People love them but not my gig.


Ok I'll bite. Is a 135 as reliable long term as a 128?

the 135 is a reliable car...it's not reliable when people 'mod' them poorly and hack on the car in their own garage thinking they are some mechanic extraordinaire.

i do agree that a 128i with an automatic is worthless.....kind of defeats the whole purpose of a 128i which is to have a light, simple, manual gearbox car which harks back to the old school days of small N/A BMW coupes.

if you're gonna get an automatic....just get something else, IMO.

OR learn how to drive a stick and be set free!! it takes like 1-2 hours.

I daily drive my N54 1M every single day and it has 76k miles on and NO ISSUES at all. I aggressively maintain it with fluid changes and the car runs like new. Totally stock....no mods needed or wanted.

[Kgolf31]

I own a N51 engine. No issues all the way up to 42k miles so far (had it since 4,000).

Autocrossed it's whole life, dedicated to ONLY autocrossing now. It sees hard miles, never failed and never think there is an issue with it failing.

Don't concern yourself with N52/1, find a car that fits what you want and go for it. Whether it be an automatic or not.

Enjoy

[chris82]

Originally Posted by champignon

The 128i SULEV, regardless of other features in an individual car, will become the equivalent of an SMG-equipped E46 M3; no one will want it, and if you sell it then you will take a huge haircut in the transaction to a collector. And there will be nothing you can do to fix it, because the VIN Check robots don't tell lies, and even if you try to get rid of some of the crap that the government made them put on the car, it will be like those E46 M3s that were sold with SMG, that have been "converted" to be manual transmission cars. Still, no one will want them as they are marked for life.

I have to disagree. The SMG vs 6MT argument on the E46 M3 is not relevant. People know what transmission they are buying and which one they want; there's a big difference between the two. Most people with the N51 on here didn't even know they had it until they looked up their VIN, including myself! The engines are so similar, that anyone who finds out after the fact that they got the N51 probably doesn't care, especially since they have the 330i intake manifold which is highly sought after for tuning purposes.

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

I own a N51 engine. No issues all the way up to 42k miles so far (had it since 4,000).

Autocrossed it's whole life, dedicated to ONLY autocrossing now. It sees hard miles, never failed and never think there is an issue with it failing.

Don't concern yourself with N52/1, find a car that fits what you want and go for it. Whether it be an automatic or not.

Enjoy

I have an N51 too, tuned, a few hot track days, and daily driven at about 55k miles now. Zero issues with this thing. I don't see what the big deal is!

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by champignon

BMWs are (reputed to be, or at least used to be) performance automobiles. The 128i is to an extent an outlier, because it is a cheaper car with crossover for people seeking a "near luxury" experience with some of the accoutrements of a luxury car, at a cheaper price. No doubt this is why so many 128is sold without any of the attractive upgrades, such as sports suspension, sports seats, M Sports steering wheel, and leather upholstery. They were essentially expensive economy cars masquerading as near-luxury cars. Their sole salvation was that they were naturally aspirated, not turbos, however some have raised issues with their magnesium containing engine blocks as being troublesome.

In contrast, the 135i was much more of a performance vehicle, cost more money, and came stock with the sports suspension, plus a large percentage of them were equipped with leather seating, sports seating, sports steering wheel, and all came with the sports suspension. And, I have no figures to support this, however looking at sales listings it appears that at least 1/3 of the 135is came with 6MT, probably more like 40-45%, and were clearly designed for people whose interest in the car was buying a performance vehicle and not an economy vehicle.

Assuming that some examples of the 1-Series will become collectible, I can assure you that collectors do not want a 128i with added feel-good gobbledy-gook governmentally required emissions hardware as part of the package, regardless of any governmentally required warranty on this unneeded shit.

The 128i SULEV, regardless of other features in an individual car, will become the equivalent of an SMG-equipped E46 M3; no one will want it, and if you sell it then you will take a huge haircut in the transaction to a collector. And there will be nothing you can do to fix it, because the VIN Check robots don't tell lies, and even if you try to get rid of some of the crap that the government made them put on the car, it will be like those E46 M3s that were sold with SMG, that have been "converted" to be manual transmission cars. Still, no one will want them as they are marked for life.

Go do a little research on E46 SMG transmission cars if you are unfamiliar with the subject. This is history, this is reality, and this will come back to bite you in the ass if you think you are collecting something worth collecting, as history does repeat itself on this sort of thing.

People also thought that the VANOS failure and Rod Bearing Spinning were huge issues, yet the S54 is the most sought after engine...

Hrm

Also, E46 M3s are a dime a dozen, they don't hold value. They were overproduced from the very beginning.

Same will be for the E82, it will follow the E36 and E46 trend and drop value

[swagon]

Do you still have the Z4, kgolf?

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Also, E46 M3s are a dime a dozen, they don't hold value. They were overproduced from the very beginning.

Same will be for the E82, it will follow the E36 and E46 trend and drop value

As an overall class, I have no doubt that you are correct on the e82 and e88 models, however there are factors which will separate (some) E82 and E88 vehicles from the pack, and from what you say is the fate of the E46 M3s, which I don't necessarily agree with.

While it is true that beat-to-shit, high mileage examples of the E46 M3 have depreciated like a rock, there are lower mileage, well-kept, stock, examples out there that sell for fairly high prices, as long as they don't have SMG.

There are many people out there who do not value what BMW automobiles used to offer, which is to say sporty, responsive, performance with lots of direct car to driver feedback. These buyers, who certainly represent the great majority of current BMW customers, are more interested in luxury obvious in the cabin, comfort, and perhaps, raw acceleration. The changeover from hydraulic power steering to electric steering in these peoples' views is of no consequence, and they have no interest in manually shifting gears, except maybe with a wheel-based paddle shifter.

This group of people, above, again the current overwhelming majority of BMW customers, will have no interest in a used 1-Series vehicle except as an economizing choice when compared to the MSRP of a new BMW, and for these people, only a cheap price will get their business. So, for the cars that would/might appeal to this above group, yes, those E82/E88 vehicles will lose value like a boulder going down a mountainside.

Are there 1-Series examples that will retain a much greater percentage of their value going forward? I think the answer is undeniably, YES. Those will be the cars that appeal to old-style BMW driver-enthusiasts, for whom there are no modern, just off the line, examples available for purchase. These will be the people who want hydraulic steering and manual transmissions.

Which are those cars? As a sometimes-collector, I believe they will be well-kept examples of the 1M, the 135is (especially 6MT examples), and 6MT examples of the 135i and 128i, that also have appealing performance options such as the sports suspension, sports seats, +/- the M Sports wheel.

And I do not agree that these specific cars I have listed are all that common, and as last of the breed before BMW "fell out of love with driving," they will be valued going forward.

Just my opinion.

[E91WAG3N]

I'm in Vegas as well and went from a 335i 6MT to 128i 6MT. I was concerned that with our higher altitude that it would not be enough power here but it has been fine so far. The 128i won't win drag races but it still gets up to speed on the highway just fine. I made the switch because I was concerned with long-term n55 costs among other reasons.

As many have said, the automatic will hamper performance but the best way to decide that for yourself is to simply test drive it. While an automatic isn't my choice or others on enthusiast forms, 90% of e82 1 series and e9x 3 series with n51/n52 engines were automatics and lots of people enjoy those cars.

That said, sport seats are a must have IMHO.

Good luck with your hunt!

[Gangplank]

Ok found a nice N55 w/ the dual clutch TRANS. Hmmmm...,

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Gangplank

Ok found a nice N55 w/ the dual clutch TRANS. Hmmmm...,

There are a lot of those out there, many just coming off of short term leases. You can afford to be picky and get exactly what you want, and with looking on Craigslist, Autotrader, BMW CPO website, Ebay, Carmax, etc. etc. you will be overwhelmed with choices. I especially like Carmax, as it is about as close to a worry free hassle free transaction as any out there.

Although the N54 HPFP issues have been dealt with, with an extended warranty on the pump, you can steer clear of the problem altogether by just looking at 2011 and later vehicles. If you get a 2012 or 2013, you may have enough of the original 4 year warranty left to not be concerned about getting a CPO vehicle, if that is a worry for you.

Good luck!

Addendum: When you go looking for DCT 135i vehicles, be advised that the MAJORITY of these cars that are labeled as "Manuals" in the sales listings are in fact AUTOMATICS. In most cases these appeared to me to be DCT cars. The only sales website where I found that the cars were accurately differentiated as to 6MT vs. Automatic, was on Carmax. Everywhere else, including the BMW CPO site, lists many many Automatic cars as being 6MT. So, if you screen just for automatics, you will miss a lot of DCT cars. As someone who was looking only at 6MT cars, I found it rather annoying to narrow down my search to several apparently good candidates only to find that most of them were in fact automatics. This can, however, work in your favor since you seek an Auto.

What you need to do is NOT use automatic transmission as a screening factor except on Carmax. You need to look at the PHOTOS of the interior of the cars you are considering, to look at the gearshift knob, which should be fairly obvious. You can also use VIN lookup sites to help you, although sometimes it can be confusing because they can put manual transmission on top and then put DCT lower down in the options list.