Hotchkis Front Sway Bar (or other option?) HELP

[BroDoze]

I'm wondering if you all can help me decide on what to do here. I have searched the forum and have found a few helpful threads, but am unsure as to what are the latest opinions and generally accepted advice.

My goal: stiffen up the front end a bit, reduce some of the roll up front, significantly reduce that slow reaction time for turn-in, reduce a bit of the "floating" up front, maintain the stock understeer/oversteer balance as much as possible for moderate to spirited cornering (not racing), want something inexpensive but very noticable

Not my goal: Don't want to drop big $ on full coilovers, do not want to lower the car, don't want to jack up the ride of the car, don't want to swap out a bunch of parts for M3 parts, not spend a ton of $$$, I do not track the car

I've sread some guys that seem to be very happy with just a stiffer front sway.

How is the Hotchkis unit? I have read the main Hotchkis thread and am wondering if those who bought that particular sway have still held onto it or swapped it out for the BMW PS, or something better?

Again, not looking to swap out my entire suspension here, but mainly get rid of that annoying-ass lack of turn-in, slow-to-initially-respond feel. I know some front toe-out would help, but I don't want the side effects.

Thanks!

Also, is this an ok place/price or is there a cheaper place to get 'em?

http://www.lightningforceperformance...oducts_id=1560

[larryn]

With those goals and budget, I would not recommend any swaybar upgrades. I would recommend 225/255 non-runflats... Likely Dunlop Z1 Star Specs, since they are cheap and the best option (in my, and many other's, honest opinion) out there right now, all things considered.


That upgrade will increase road holding and turn-in greatly.

A swaybar alone is not going to help anything to related to perceived floatiness or stiffer feeling front. It's almost a waste to do a swaybar mod with the stock runflats on the car. You'll just make the 215's up front lose their tread faster.

If your heart is set on getting a swaybar, and doing nothing else, the Hotchkis is too stiff then. Get the E92 or E93 M3 bar for less money, which would be better suited as a sole suspension mod.

Regardless, remove the front alignment pins (search the DIY section), and slide the strut hat over. Adding more negative camber will make the car turn-in better, for free. Forget the toe-out too... It will eat tires too quickly, as I'm sure you know.

[My135]

Front sway bar upgrade is a much cheaper effective mod than the run-flat replacement, IMO.

[BroDoze]

Well shit, I ordered the Hotchkis front bar for $229. I have used Hotchkis bars in the past and have really liked them. They say the hollow bars equate to being roughly 5mm softer than an equivelant sized solid bar in almost all cases.

Anyway, the plan has always been to burn through the stock RFT's and replace them them with some wider, better rubber.

Thanks for the replies, I also found another big thread that was very helpful.

And LarryN, I will also look into dialing in some more negative camber, thanks. I miss the turn-in I had in my '05 STi. I had that thing ready to carve it up, problem was I think I got carried away with front toe-out and was chewing through tires like crazy and the front was twitchy as all hell. Instantaneous response though - miss that. This 1er has to think about turn-in before doing it. Hopefully some new rubber + this new bar + a bit more - camber will help that.

[BMW86]

Yes but replacing run-flats is a necessity for most people. I've been very happy with my RE-11's and my car is still on stock suspension.

[supracg]

I have the hotchkis front sway and im VERY happy with the change it made, im sure you will be too.

[arrutled]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Well shit, I ordered the Hotchkis front bar for $229. I have used Hotchkis bars in the past and have really liked them. They say the hollow bars equate to being roughly 5mm softer than an equivelant sized solid bar in almost all cases.

Anyway, the plan has always been to burn through the stock RFT's and replace them them with some wider, better rubber.

Thanks for the replies, I also found another big thread that was very helpful.

And LarryN, I will also look into dialing in some more negative camber, thanks. I miss the turn-in I had in my '05 STi. I had that thing ready to carve it up, problem was I think I got carried away with front toe-out and was chewing through tires like crazy and the front was twitchy as all hell. Instantaneous response though - miss that. This 1er has to think about turn-in before doing it. Hopefully some new rubber + this new bar + a bit more - camber will help that.

The M3 bars are hollow. the coupe bar is 26.5 mm OD and 18 ID. I gained a lot of grip/turn-in from my M3 sway and control arms even on my stock runflats. Def replace run-flats though.

[hats4bats]

Thumbs-up on the Hotchkis front sway. I'm only in a 128, but the car feels a lot crisper in turns. Non RFTs are next, but Hotchkis front sway was $ well spent

[jabwind51]

Originally Posted by arrutled

The M3 bars are hollow. the coupe bar is 26.5 mm OD and 18 ID. I gained a lot of grip/turn-in from my M3 sway and control arms even on my stock runflats. Def replace run-flats though.

Awesome. I'd like to get the control arms and sway vs a suspension overhaul. Do to have those m3 coupe part numbers/prices?? Thanks.

[BroDoze]

Welp, finally got the bar delivered yesterday. Took about 45m to put in (cake front bar install compared to my STi (dropping subframe)).

Anyway, it feels great. Still have to get used to it. I took a long swooping on-ramp last night at some good speed and the ass end was a bit, er a LOT, more willing to come out, so I need to learn the new bar some more. Basically there's very little to no difference in feel under normal driving/turning etc. Only when I'm doing some hard cornering can I feel the difference.

So, time for some wider, stickier rubber now.

[HP Autosport]

One option is to use the E90/92 or E93 front bar. E93 bar being slightly larger or stiffer.

However, bar along isn't going to get you where you want your car to be.

[arrutled]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Welp, finally got the bar delivered yesterday. Took about 45m to put in (cake front bar install compared to my STi (dropping subframe)).

Anyway, it feels great. Still have to get used to it. I took a long swooping on-ramp last night at some good speed and the ass end was a bit, er a LOT, more willing to come out, so I need to learn the new bar some more. Basically there's very little to no difference in feel under normal driving/turning etc. Only when I'm doing some hard cornering can I feel the difference.

So, time for some wider, stickier rubber now.

shouldnt the rear end be more planted???

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by arrutled

shouldnt the rear end be more planted???

Adding a stiffer front sway on these cars increases front grip bigtime. Goes against the normal methodology of sway bars - the same was true, to a point, on my STi.

[arrutled]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Adding a stiffer front sway on these cars increases front grip bigtime. Goes against the normal methodology of sway bars - the same was true, to a point, on my STi.

True, prevents rolling into positive camber. But stiffer front bars also puts more weight onto the rear(especially inside rear) of the car during the turn which should keep it more planted.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by arrutled

True, prevents rolling into positive camber. But stiffer front bars also puts more weight onto the rear(especially inside rear) of the car during the turn which should keep it more planted.

I need to drive it more at the limit. Work is getting in the way of my personal time.

I hate that.

[DaveSakky135]

i just did the H&R sway bar and love it along with thier coilover kit. I added the bar a week after the coilover install and still noticed a pretty big differnece.

[supracg]

I definitely noticed a difference with my hotchkis front sway, assuming it isn't placebo but I feel the car turn in quicker and with less body roll (on smaller and wider radius turns). The only thing I am afraid of is the increased possibility of suddenly losing traction due to being too flat but I don't think I'm close to that point yet.

[rsjean]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Welp, finally got the bar delivered yesterday. Took about 45m to put in (cake front bar install compared to my STi (dropping subframe)).

Anyway, it feels great. Still have to get used to it. I took a long swooping on-ramp last night at some good speed and the ass end was a bit, er a LOT, more willing to come out, so I need to learn the new bar some more. Basically there's very little to no difference in feel under normal driving/turning etc. Only when I'm doing some hard cornering can I feel the difference.

So, time for some wider, stickier rubber now.

Did you leave the stock end links in place or remove em and install the Hotchkis links.

[NYC6]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Welp, finally got the bar delivered yesterday. Took about 45m to put in (cake front bar install compared to my STi (dropping subframe)).

Anyway, it feels great. Still have to get used to it. I took a long swooping on-ramp last night at some good speed and the ass end was a bit, er a LOT, more willing to come out, so I need to learn the new bar some more. Basically there's very little to no difference in feel under normal driving/turning etc. Only when I'm doing some hard cornering can I feel the difference.

So, time for some wider, stickier rubber now.

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

Adding a stiffer front sway on these cars increases front grip bigtime. Goes against the normal methodology of sway bars - the same was true, to a point, on my STi.

Great post. I've been trying to figure out what to do with my 135 getting delivered this upcoming week and this thread was very informative. Thanks

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by rsjean

Did you leave the stock end links in place or remove em and install the Hotchkis links.

I kept the stock end links on. The car's not lowered and won't be. Install was cake.

[rsjean]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

I kept the stock end links on. The car's not lowered and won't be. Install was cake.

Thanks. Just what I hoped. I'm not going to be lowering either. Need clearance for all this crappy snow. Sounds like the hardest part was all those bottom plate screws!

[cpt97m3]

Originally Posted by supracg

I definitely noticed a difference with my hotchkis front sway, assuming it isn't placebo but I feel the car turn in quicker and with less body roll (on smaller and wider radius turns). The only thing I am afraid of is the increased possibility of suddenly losing traction due to being too flat but I don't think I'm close to that point yet.

I can confirm the Hotchkis bar works well. I've tested my car with that bar back to back with stok 135's on an AutoX course, and the Hotchkis car turns in better, and is quicker though a slalom.