128i love

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Stock airbox with K&N vs Stock Airbox + charcoal delete + dryflow filter

Stock Airbox and K&N vs AFE SI intake

AFE vs Injen vs Charcoal delete intake

While it looks promising, were all runs done on the same dyno to the same engine under the same conditions?

[TheSt|G]

Nothing like a 2.2% gain for noticeable power.

And yes, there never has been much debate the AFE SI makes power.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

While it looks promising, were all runs done on the same dyno to the same engine under the same conditions?

I did them all on the same day and same strapdown.

[Brake_L8]

I have the AFE and it definitely feels like it added a bit of power/torque. Not much, but something.

By contrast, intakes I've cobbled together on other cars have really just added noise.

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by Brake_L8

I have the AFE and it definitely feels like it added a bit of power/torque. Not much, but something.

By contrast, intakes I've cobbled together on other cars have really just added noise.

How long have you had the intake (how many miles in use)? Did your fuel economy change?

I still have reservations about using an intake, since while you may gain a few HP, at the same time, you have to be sucking more dirt into your engine.

[InControl]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

It's not my job to save you from yourself.

You'll be lucky to save yourself

[Obioban]

Anything that uses an oiled filter is more or less trading short term gains for long term losses (unless you're changing your MAF out every 5000 miles or so)-- oil ruins the MAF's readings, and in short order you're making less power than stock. And yes, I know there's MAF cleaner out there-- sadly it prematurely ages MAFs.

... unless you're alpha N converted. At which point you can get of the MAF restriction point and maybe even make some power of note from an intake.... which is exactly what I've done on my M3 and M5.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Anything that uses an oiled filter is more or less trading short term gains for long term losses (unless you're changing your MAF out every 5000 miles or so)-- oil ruins the MAF's readings, and in short order you're making less power than stock. And yes, I know there's MAF cleaner out there-- sadly it prematurely ages MAFs.

I realize they have a vested interest in the outcome of the tests, but...
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/massair.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/1MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/2MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/3MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/4MAFSensorVideo.htm

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

I realize they have a vested interest in the outcome of the tests, but...
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/massair.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/1MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/2MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/3MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/4MAFSensorVideo.htm

Yeah, I'm sure if K&N handled the re-oiling of the filter it would be fine. But, people are doing it themselves (or shops), and inedibly too much oil or too much oil in one spot will be use.

What I posted above happens all the time on M3forum. Again and again and again. You can temporarily address the symptoms with maf cleaner (with noticeable power gains if you've been using an oiled filter for a while), but then your MAF fails far more quickly.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Yeah, I'm sure if K&N handled the re-oiling of the filter it would be fine. But, people are doing it themselves (or shops), and inedibly too much oil or too much oil in one spot will be use.

What I posted above happens all the time on M3forum. Again and again and again. You can temporarily address the symptoms with maf cleaner (with noticeable power gains if you've been using an oiled filter for a while), but then your MAF fails far more quickly.

Perhaps a viewing of video 3 http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/3MAFSensorVideo.htm is in order. They hooked up an airbrush to supply air filter oil to the MAF. Anecdotal and empirical data has its place, but how it's interpreted can also skew the conclusions. "99.9% of all people killed in automobile accidents have consumed water in the last 24 hours, therefore water causes fatal accidents". Having searched, I have found nothing but anecdotal accounts of MAFs being killed by oiled filters. If you can point me in the direction of a site with scientifically repeatable results I will remove the offending filter immediately. I still have the stock, paper filter I can drop back in.

I've never owned or purchased a K&N filter, though, for full disclosure, the genuine BMW Performance Intake I have came with an "oiled cotton gauze" filter. If it fails within the 15 years or 150,000 miles for which my California N51 is warranted by BMW, I promise to dutifully report it here.

All that said, when it's time to clean the filter I'll just replace it with paper anyway. BITOG has some great tests regarding filtration and I want to keep my car for a long time. To echo their conclusions: "The “high performance” cotton gauze and foam filters do not filter as well as some have claimed. I actually received an e-mail from K&N stating their filters filter within 99% of the OEM filters. This may be true, and 1% may not sound like much. I contend that 1% over many miles, may be important." I'm opting for using the oiled filter for 1% of the life of my car... but not because of the MAF in the absence of real evidence to the contrary.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

Perhaps a viewing of video 3 http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/3MAFSensorVideo.htm is in order. They hooked up an airbrush to supply air filter oil to the MAF. Anecdotal and empirical data has its place, but how it's interpreted can also skew the conclusions. "99.9% of all people killed in automobile accidents have consumed water in the last 24 hours, therefore water causes fatal accidents". Having searched, I have found nothing but anecdotal accounts of MAFs being killed by oiled filters. If you can point me in the direction of a site with scientifically repeatable results I will remove the offending filter immediately. I still have the stock, paper filter I can drop back in.

I've never owned or purchased a K&N filter, though, for full disclosure, the genuine BMW Performance Intake I have came with an "oiled cotton gauze" filter. If it fails within the 15 years or 150,000 miles for which my California N51 is warranted by BMW, I promise to dutifully report it here.

All that said, when it's time to clean the filter I'll just replace it with paper anyway. BITOG has some great tests regarding filtration and I want to keep my car for a long time. To echo their conclusions: "The “high performance” cotton gauze and foam filters do not filter as well as some have claimed. I actually received an e-mail from K&N stating their filters filter within 99% of the OEM filters. This may be true, and 1% may not sound like much. I contend that 1% over many miles, may be important." I'm opting for using the oiled filter for 1% of the life of my car... but not because of the MAF in the absence of real evidence to the contrary.

I haven't seen any independent studies on oiled filter's effect on MAFs at all, favoring either side of the argument. Believing PR videos from the company selling the filters over people reporting issues resulting from them... Seems not wise to me

Pretty sure we all know who has done FAR and away the most extensive studies of filtration vs flow vs maf health: BMW.

And it's not like they hesitate to update parts when newer technology comes out.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Obioban

... unless you're alpha N converted. At which point you can get of the MAF restriction point and maybe even make some power of note from an intake.... which is exactly what I've done on my M3 and M5.

Which is also an important consideration to the CSL intake discussion earlier.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I haven't seen any independent studies on oiled filter's effect on MAFs at all, favoring either side of the argument. Believing PR videos from the company selling the filters over people reporting issues resulting from them... Seems not wise to me

"I had an issue, replaced my MAF and threw away my K&N and now I don't have an issue" or "I had an issue, cleaned my MAF and threw away my K&N and now I don't have an issue" does not prove there was an issue with the filter or, for that matter, even the MAF.

The Public Relations videos are credible because K&N disclosed their test methodology and results and in the 7 years since the videos were produced I can find not one article debunking their claims. Not one government entity, not one manufacturer, not one consumer advocate and not one disgruntled consumer. The silence is deafening.

Originally Posted by Obioban

Pretty sure we all know who has done FAR and away the most extensive studies of filtration vs flow vs maf health: BMW.

Which is why I was unafraid of using the Genuine BMW oiled cotton gauze Performance Filter P/N 13710445635 (dripping with oil, I might add) provided with my PI. But, like I said, when the oiled filter is due for replacement or cleaning I plan on going back to good, old fashioned, paper air filters for their improved filtration and just replace them more often.

[Dafttt]

I can personally contest, zero issues with my k&n oiled filter. There's more room for error with oil, but that's the only issue I see. And if you don't know how to properly oil a filter or watch a DIY video, then you shouldn't be tinkering with your car to begin with.

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

I realize they have a vested interest in the outcome of the tests, but...
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/massair.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/1MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/2MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/3MAFSensorVideo.htm
http://www.knfilters.com/MAF/4MAFSensorVideo.htm

And here are tests from somebody with no vested interest.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

And here are tests from somebody with no vested interest.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

Well, there you go. I'm surprised anyone bothered, as they're not making money off stock filters, but there it is.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

And here are tests from somebody with no vested interest.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

I'm familiar with both of those tests, and in fact, quoted the BITOG article in post #472 and agreed with their conclusions and reiterated my feelings regarding oiled cotton gauze filters in post #475. To quote myself:

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

All that said, when it's time to clean the filter I'll just replace it with paper anyway. BITOG has some great tests regarding filtration and I want to keep my car for a long time.

and

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

But, like I said, when the oiled filter is due for replacement or cleaning I plan on going back to good, old fashioned, paper air filters for their improved filtration and just replace them more often.

Neither article addresses whether or not oiled cotton gauze type air filters kill MAF sensors, which was Obioban's assertion in post #469 and my rebuttal posts #470 and #472.

[andrey_gta]

Guys so I've been thinking to update the H11 bulbs in the fogs.
How does one change the bulbs? Do I need to take off the bumper cover???

Also, regarding H11 bulbs, my research shows that H11 prices quickly get inflated for Phillips Night Breaker/ other premium style bulbs ( 55w 12v).
So I have looked at simply taking a quality OEM H9 instead and cutting up 2 tabs to get a 10w upgrade, since most are 65w 12v.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Guys so I've been thinking to update the H11 bulbs in the fogs.
How does one change the bulbs? Do I need to take off the bumper cover???

Also, regarding H11 bulbs, my research shows that H11 prices quickly get inflated for Phillips Night Breaker/ other premium style bulbs ( 55w 12v).
So I have looked at simply taking a quality OEM H9 instead and cutting up 2 tabs to get a 10w upgrade, since most are 65w 12v.

Vague memories here as I tossed my fogs almost immediately, but IIRC you just push a screw driver into a tab/hole and it releases the fogs from the bumper. At that point you are free to do whatever you want to them.

Careful on running the significantly higher wattage bulbs. You might exceed the load capacity of the wire gauge used.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Vague memories here as I tossed my fogs almost immediately, but IIRC you just push a screw driver into a tab/hole and it releases the fogs from the bumper. At that point you are free to do whatever you want to them.

Careful on running the significantly higher wattage bulbs. You might exceed the load capacity of the wire gauge used.

I went through the fender well to access the bulbs. Turn the wheel all the way over and it'll expose a couple screws to unbolt and open it up enough to access the rear.

Can't comment on the fog wiring, but I run 65w low beams with no issues for over a year now

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Can't comment on the fog wiring, but I run 65w low beams with no issues for over a year now

Which brand did you end up purchasing?

TIA

[andrey_gta]

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

Which brand did you end up purchasing?

TIA

We both run Osram 65w rallye bulbs.
Currently Aliexpress has the best rates on them(user/store name: Your Supermarket)- where I bought mine from ( identical to photos of Candelpower purchases from the other forums like VW).
There is even a thread here that I updated 3 months back with a link.
And I have a spare 2 bulb set my self, if your interested and dont care to wait for Ali.