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      03-16-2009, 09:49 AM   #23
KeithLM
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This morning when I got in the car started fine, then as it dropped the idle speeds below 1000rpm it got real rough. Seemed a bit worse then yesterday. It seemed to really struggle as it brought the rpms down to 700 and then it would kick back up to 900 and drop down again and run rough. As I backed out of the garage it shook a good bit and driving along I could notice hesitancy in low rpms. When I got to work and put it in park it felt ok but stayed at around 900rpm. Things just keep getting worse.
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      03-16-2009, 09:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
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This morning when I got in the car started fine, then as it dropped the idle speeds below 1000rpm it got real rough. Seemed a bit worse then yesterday. It seemed to really struggle as it brought the rpms down to 700 and then it would kick back up to 900 and drop down again and run rough. As I backed out of the garage it shook a good bit and driving along I could notice hesitancy in low rpms. When I got to work and put it in park it felt ok but stayed at around 900rpm. Things just keep getting worse.

I'm betting you've got a HPFP about to fail.
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      03-16-2009, 10:00 AM   #25
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how many miles do you have on your car, and when was your car built?
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      03-16-2009, 10:34 AM   #26
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I'm betting you've got a HPFP about to fail.
I hope not. I had no issues until I put on the downpipes. And it was after the O2 sim was installed when it started running rough. That'd be a very odd coincidence.

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how many miles do you have on your car, and when was your car built?
I have about 7800 miles on it. It was built in early April '08. I had the firmware updated recently for the alarm.
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      03-16-2009, 10:41 AM   #27
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I hope not. I had no issues until I put on the downpipes. And it was after the O2 sim was installed when it started running rough. That'd be a very odd coincidence.

You're right, it would. I just can't think of anything else unless the O2 sim wasn't installed properly.

You're taking it back to the shop right?
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      03-16-2009, 10:43 AM   #28
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Maybe the shop installed the o2 sims on the wrong wire???

Mike
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      03-16-2009, 10:50 AM   #29
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I'm taking it back at lunch time. If he can't find a problem, I'm having the pipes removed. They've been way to much trouble.
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      03-16-2009, 10:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Maybe the shop installed the o2 sims on the wrong wire???

Mike
I'm having the same problem with the CEL and we've installed two O2 sims already from RR and still no cigar. Traced the wiring this weekend and it's showing one of the faults as the absolute pressure sensor on the intake manifold showing high resistance .. I've installed the RR DV also. The pressure sensor is on the same circuit as the O2 sensor so took the pressure sensor and going to replace and see what happens. Feel like we're chasing our tails...
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      03-16-2009, 10:59 AM   #31
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Does the JB3 have an O2 sim incorporated. Just wondered. Might be a good excuse to purchase
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      03-16-2009, 11:03 AM   #32
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Quote:
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I'm taking it back at lunch time. If he can't find a problem, I'm having the pipes removed. They've been way to much trouble.

I'd try removing just the O2 sim first. The car should run fine without it, you'll just have the SES light on all the time. At least then you'll know if that's what's causing it.
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      03-16-2009, 11:04 AM   #33
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Does the JB3 have an O2 sim incorporated. Just wondered. Might be a good excuse to purchase

No, but it would be nice if it did.
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      03-16-2009, 11:28 AM   #34
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I was told 95% of the time the O2 sim wasn't needed, but after 100 miles the light wouldn't go away so I had it installed. I don't want the light on all the time, that's not acceptable to me. Nor is running rough.
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      03-16-2009, 11:31 AM   #35
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a week after I had my alarm install my HPFP failed at 5800 miles. since your car was made in april you have the old HPFP which was updated in july 08. So, I would not count that out.
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      03-16-2009, 11:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
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Does the JB3 have an O2 sim incorporated. Just wondered. Might be a good excuse to purchase
No it doesn't but the BMS sims plug right into the PnP Harness, but have to be purchased separately.

Mike
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      03-16-2009, 12:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
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I was told 95% of the time the O2 sim wasn't needed, but after 100 miles the light wouldn't go away so I had it installed. I don't want the light on all the time, that's not acceptable to me. Nor is running rough.

I can understand that, but was it running rough before the O2 sim was installed? Or just had the light on?
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      03-16-2009, 01:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
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I can understand that, but was it running rough before the O2 sim was installed? Or just had the light on?
I didn't feel any hesitation or rough idle before the sim.

It's at the shop now. He'll be checking the codes and the pins the sim is connected to, if he finds a problem related to that he'll fix it. If not, the pipes are coming off and going back to Riss. I've invested a lot of time and money into what is supposed to be a straightforward bolt-on.
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      03-16-2009, 04:14 PM   #39
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I should also mention Stett doesn't believe the oil is an issue. He said it might just be some of the evaporated oil leaking out of the turbos or something like that. He told me everything in that area is so strong that even if the downpipes were pushing against one another or something else they couldn't be hurting the turbos or anything like that. He also said that the position the O2 sensors are in shouldn't be a problem as there shouldn't be any movement aside from some minor thermal expansion which shouldn't be enough to put pressure on the sensors.
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      03-16-2009, 05:08 PM   #40
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The idle issue definitely sounds like an O2 sim problem. I started the car without the O2 sim installed and it had a nasty uneven idle. Once the O2 sims and resistors were properly installed, no error messages and perfect idle.
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      03-16-2009, 05:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
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The idle issue definitely sounds like an O2 sim problem. I started the car without the O2 sim installed and it had a nasty uneven idle. Once the O2 sims and resistors were properly installed, no error messages and perfect idle.
That was one thing he was definitely going to check. Anthony told me today that my O2 sim was tested and working perfectly before they shipped it to me.
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      03-16-2009, 07:00 PM   #42
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Well no final verdict yet. Stett did not have time to put it on the lift. But he double-checked the sim and it's wired correctly. He said if he had the O2 sensors swapped he'd expect it to go into limp mode. And that's not a problem on mine as it does run, but it's real rough.
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      03-17-2009, 05:49 PM   #43
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Well it has been one long day. I was stuck at the shop the entire time. I kept thinking it was just going to be a short while before it was fixed, and it kept going on and on.

So first off they tried the resistors, no change. They put the car on the lift and started working towards removing the downpipes as I was ready to give up. I had Riss on the phone at the time and they were throwing a bunch of information at me, and then Stett found an obvious problem. The intake line leading to the rear turbo had come off. This most likely occurred because I had spent so much time working on the rear connection of the intake in an effort to move the intake further to the rear of the engine to line up with the plenum better and have plenty of clearance. This is the source of the oil as well as the hesitation and rough idle and would also throw the same codes as the rear O2 sensors.

It's important to note that the SES light had never come on until shortly after the downpipes were installed. So I believe this connection finally came loose after the pipes were put on, possibly while I was out Friday giving it a bit of a good run to break in the downpipes. It must be one of those bizarre coincidences that really threw us for a loop.

So that took a long time to fix. Here is part of the process:



The manual says to remove the downpipes to access that connection, but they did it without pulling them out. The car runs fine now.

However the codes remain. Either the O2 sim is bad, or it's not in right. I will be checking it later myself.

They happened to have an N54 turbo lying around and I thought some might enjoy seeing exactly what they look like:
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      03-17-2009, 05:54 PM   #44
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Glad to hear you got this cleared up for the most part and that the car is running fine. Thank god nothing got sucked in there cause you could have been dealing with some much more major problems.

I'm also happy to hear this wasn't a problem with the downpipes because I would hate to go to the trouble of pulling mine off.

Hopefully that SES light will go off for you once you've put some miles on the car. Thanks for the update, now go out and have some fun driving that beast.
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