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      08-10-2014, 05:31 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley1175 View Post
It's the tyre pressures that determine the contact patch size. The shape changes, but not the amount of area.
That thinking is very often disputed. I don't think you can accept that as fact. Here is one reference that disputes it:

http://www.performancesimulations.co...on-tires-1.htm

The idea is that tyres do not behave the same as a balloon. Modern tyres are full of steel, nylon and Kevlar so the tyre has weight and stiffness that affects the size of the contact patch. Also the contact patch will be different in dynamic conditions vs static condition due to the forces on the tire.
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      08-10-2014, 06:35 AM   #24
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1M is alot of fun on the track with the right tyres, fun or lap times??
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      08-10-2014, 07:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
All semi slicks are like that. I'm surprised you guys are using semi slicks on daily drivers? They do wear out incredibly quickly and whilst I have no experience with PSC2, the original PSC has little ability to disperse water and as a result is almost dangerous in the wet unless you drive very slowly. I hear the PSC2 is the same and has already taken a few scalp on wet roads such as on 991 GT3. And finally they need a bit of heat in them to operate properly.
I don't think these count as a semi Way, the UTQG wear rating is 180 c/f 80 of the PSC +. It's why I bought them - as a dual duty tyre.

E.g. see Extreme Time Attack street class rule:


■All Street Class vehicles must use DOT street tires with a UTQG tread wear rating of 140 or higher.


Driving on moist roads today in 10 degree Melbourne winter weather they felt grippier than the outgoing PS2s, despite being 15km old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
We will see how the AD08R last for DD. For a dual purpose tyre I would pick this over the PSS - my PSS was in very bad shape after a couple of track days.
Yes, these were my first choice until I went searching for an alternative when they weren't available - glad in the end. I must say, despite not gripping as well as a more extreme tyre, the PS2s were pretty durable at the track - at Calder Timbo noted I did seven quick laps in a row on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Been tracking the 1M of course, but now I question its value as a track car despite my earlier intention. I still got a set of Trofeo R there and my tyre place will change them over with very little $ - so it is actually going to be more convenient for me swapping tyres.
That's not a bad idea! I swap my brake pads twice per year (winter and summer breaks between track sessions) so why not tyres...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley1175 View Post

Ro1M, when's Sandown? I'm keen to head out again.
Coming Saturday Smiley. Here's the link

http://wrx.com.au/event-899288

35 places left as I write. Be great if you could make it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
Lesson is if it's track time and track worthiness you are chasing, just buy a GT3.
Not enough $

iPhone photos:
Attached Images
  
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M4 Times (PSC2): Sandown: 1.21.76 Winton:
1M Times (PSC2):
Phillip Island: 1.53.09 Sandown: 1.24.03 Calder Park: 1.07.31 Winton: 1.36.71
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      08-10-2014, 07:54 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beemer View Post
1M is alot of fun on the track with the right tyres, fun or lap times??
Good question - what is fun? I had a lot of fun in a 428i following a pace car the other day at Lakeside because I was hitting all the apexes . I am starting to think a slower car might be more fun at the moment

May be I am secretly frustrated that I am struggling to tame the 1Monster.
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      08-10-2014, 08:41 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro1M View Post
I don't think these count as a semi Way, the UTQG wear rating is 180 c/f 80 of the PSC +. It's why I bought them - as a dual duty tyre.
Must admit that caught me completely by surprise! So Michelin has moved the Cup tyres away from being a proper semi slick? Do they still have a semi slick product?
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      08-10-2014, 07:33 PM   #28
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Don't know if they are keeping the older PSC+ as a semi-slick, but from what I have read these are faster anyway!

Pete has written a great review here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1009055&page=2

I'll add my contributions after the weekend - hopefully get into the low 1.24s.
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M4 Times (PSC2): Sandown: 1.21.76 Winton:
1M Times (PSC2):
Phillip Island: 1.53.09 Sandown: 1.24.03 Calder Park: 1.07.31 Winton: 1.36.71
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      08-10-2014, 07:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro1M View Post
Don't know if they are keeping the older PSC+ as a semi-slick, but from what I have read these are faster anyway!

Pete has written a great review here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1009055&page=2

I'll add my contributions after the weekend - hopefully get into the low 1.24s.
What was your time previously? And on what tyre? Your can go quicker than that.

Also keen to hear more impression of the PSC2 for road use.
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      08-10-2014, 07:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
What was your time previously? And on what tyre? Your can go quicker than that.

Also keen to hear more impression of the PSC2 for road use.
Times in signature - standard car, PS2s.

Of course one can go quicker....but can I go quicker?
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M4 Times (PSC2): Sandown: 1.21.76 Winton:
1M Times (PSC2):
Phillip Island: 1.53.09 Sandown: 1.24.03 Calder Park: 1.07.31 Winton: 1.36.71
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      08-10-2014, 08:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro1M View Post
Times in signature - standard car, PS2s.

Of course one can go quicker....but can I go quicker?
Haha good point. Would be crazy to push beyond your own limits and hit a barrier or something! If it's going to be a cold day, watch out for turn 3 on out lap. I've seen so many people go into the barrier with cold tyres there over the years.

I can't see your signature on my phone and had to look at the full version. Nice times with standard tyres. If the PSC2 is as good as everyone says then 1.5s reduction is certainly possible! Good luck and let us know.
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      08-10-2014, 08:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
Haha good point. Would be crazy to push beyond your own limits and hit a barrier or something! If it's going to be a cold day, watch out for turn 3 on out lap. I've seen so many people go into the barrier with cold tyres there over the years.

I can't see your signature on my phone and had to look at the full version. Nice times with standard tyres. If the PSC2 is as good as everyone says then 1.5s reduction is certainly possible! Good luck and let us know.
Ha yeah, always 90%. Yes, that wall is close there, I just nurse it through in third.

I'll give some street and track feedback next week.
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M4 Times (PSC2): Sandown: 1.21.76 Winton:
1M Times (PSC2):
Phillip Island: 1.53.09 Sandown: 1.24.03 Calder Park: 1.07.31 Winton: 1.36.71

Last edited by MPoweRo; 08-10-2014 at 08:23 PM.. Reason: spelling
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      08-10-2014, 11:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
Haha semi slicks and debris, don't I know about them! If you are intending to track a lot, I would recommend the Dunlops. As for 1M being a track car, I've been there done that with my 135i. All the money spent on it and it's still not as fast as a stock GT3, nor the reliability. Lesson is if it's track time and track worthiness you are chasing, just buy a GT3.
I was thinking this. Do you have experience in 996 gt3s?
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      08-11-2014, 12:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
I was thinking this. Do you have experience in 996 gt3s?
Yeah I had a 996.2 GT3 with PCCBs. They are less friendly to drive at the limit than 997.2. More raw in many ways. But the enlarged 3.8 engine in the 7.2 provides much more torque and the 7.2 is a much faster car. There are no electronic aids at all in the 996 and couple that with the fact that it is a car that can bite, you better be a good driver. The brakes on the 7.2 is much more powerful even without PCCBs. I had one 7.2 with PCCB and another without. The PCCBs in the 7.2's are even better but you wouldn't want them for track. Well, unless you can afford the replacement cost of the rotors.
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      08-11-2014, 03:55 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
Yeah I had a 996.2 GT3 with PCCBs. They are less friendly to drive at the limit than 997.2. More raw in many ways. But the enlarged 3.8 engine in the 7.2 provides much more torque and the 7.2 is a much faster car. There are no electronic aids at all in the 996 and couple that with the fact that it is a car that can bite, you better be a good driver. The brakes on the 7.2 is much more powerful even without PCCBs. I had one 7.2 with PCCB and another without. The PCCBs in the 7.2's are even better but you wouldn't want them for track. Well, unless you can afford the replacement cost of the rotors.
Yeh, then you went and sold the 6.2
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      08-18-2014, 05:22 AM   #36
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Feedback after Sandown.

Quite happy with them.

Since the last Sandown event I have also fitted Bilstein Clubsport coilovers so it's difficult to know exactly which character/response is due to which modification.

Also keep in mind that it was a cold day with lower track temperatures than my previous PB.

Pros.
Stability: Very predictable if you've over stepped the mark with corner entry speed and trailed too much brake - the car just stood firm, didn't get out of shape and just allowed little modifications to bring it back into line. Through the high speed kink over the back they felt quite stable, but I was wandering around under brakes (front toe is neutral - perhaps toeing out under brakes).
NVH: Driving home they and re-inflated to street pressures they feel a lot like the PS2s, and quiet on smooth freeways (although they rumble on more coarse chip).
Warm up: after less than half a lap (weaving a little and braking aggressively to de-glaze pads and get heat into tyres) these were ready to go so the 1st full lap would always count.

Cons.
Pressure sensitive: these tyres really like lower pressures. Despite attacking harder and taking the car closer to the limit during each session my times were dropping after lap 2 or 3, which is unusual for me (usually quickest lap is 4 or 5). I was starting at 32 cold then running 34 hot initially. Next time I'll aim for 32 hot - semi-slick sort of pressures.

I was consistently lapping in the 1.25s with a best of 1.24.71, which is only 1.1 seconds better than my previous best time. I think with a warmer track and better pressure management (so tyres are reaching optimal pressure by lap 3 or 4) and perhaps some fine tuning of the suspension set up a high 1.23 is there. Ah well, next time.

In summary, a high performing tyre that suits our short wheelbase cars well and which performs the dual duty of street and track.
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M4 Times (PSC2): Sandown: 1.21.76 Winton:
1M Times (PSC2):
Phillip Island: 1.53.09 Sandown: 1.24.03 Calder Park: 1.07.31 Winton: 1.36.71
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      08-18-2014, 03:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
Yeah I had a 996.2 GT3 with PCCBs. They are less friendly to drive at the limit than 997.2. More raw in many ways. But the enlarged 3.8 engine in the 7.2 provides much more torque and the 7.2 is a much faster car. There are no electronic aids at all in the 996 and couple that with the fact that it is a car that can bite, you better be a good driver. The brakes on the 7.2 is much more powerful even without PCCBs. I had one 7.2 with PCCB and another without. The PCCBs in the 7.2's are even better but you wouldn't want them for track. Well, unless you can afford the replacement cost of the rotors.
What times did you get in the GT3 ?

My experience with GT3 s at the track is that it is rare to see one driven to the cars potential.
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      08-22-2014, 02:33 AM   #38
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What times did you get in the GT3 ?
Lack of response indicates lack of genuine track time but plenty of internet expertise.
Quite common these days
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      08-22-2014, 04:16 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koastal View Post
What times did you get in the GT3 ?

My experience with GT3 s at the track is that it is rare to see one driven to the cars potential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by koastal View Post
Lack of response indicates lack of genuine track time but plenty of internet expertise.
Quite common these days
HAHAHAHAHA.... You know not of what you speak in this case...
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      08-22-2014, 04:39 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by koastal View Post
Lack of response indicates lack of genuine track time but plenty of internet expertise.
Quite common these days
or lack of time to get on the forum to respond to your post which he may not know exists...
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      08-25-2014, 08:08 AM   #41
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Enjoy mate, I'm looking at those or the AD08R next.... hmmm
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