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09-23-2011, 05:59 PM | #45 |
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If they would market the car as having less power than it does, why is it hard to imagine that they would do the same with the tune? Maybe they like the numbers heavily padded, to ensure that everyone gets what was advertised, regardless of differences from engine to engine, declines in performance over time, whatever. Maybe they don't want to get too close (on paper) to the 1M.
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09-23-2011, 06:00 PM | #46 |
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I'm curious schaefer, does the turbo sound noisier with the tune??
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09-23-2011, 11:16 PM | #47 | |
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It sounds like the throttle response has improved. Having the engine respond, quicker/crisper, indicates that response has improved. My test, to minimize any turbo "lag" effect, is to be in 2nd or 3rd depending on safe road speed, keep the throttle positive while the engine is around 4k rpm. Don't let up on the throttle, keep slight positive pressure, then floor it. Does the engine respond quickly with no hesitation? And, how quickly it responds. So, it's hard to directly compare as you have to use memory cause you can't switch tunes on the fly. In my 135i, this test yields nearly a "1" count for the engine to fully respond, and when it does the power comes on in a 2 stage feel. After the 1 count, power jumps, then jumps full on. It sucks. It wasn't like that before. The other aspect is response during cornering, when subtle throttle changes are needed to keep power on in relation to grip to make the turn. Here you may need to make subtle throttle input to keep the power more one or a bit less to keep the rear end in line. That's where throttle response is really needed the most. Too much delay, not enough control. You may then apply too much throttle only to find the power come on all of sudden. That's a lack of response. Or, bad a driver. Thanks again for your input. If the same holds true for N54 engines, I may get this just to bring throttle response back, and hopefully make it better than before that accursed software update. |
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09-23-2011, 11:23 PM | #48 | |
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But it's not necessarily always such a good thing. Too much low rpm torque and you can't hook up traction anyway to even get you into traffic, which is what most people think they wanted in the first place. Decent low rpm torque with big mid rpm torque and big high rpm torque is better for enthusiast driving on twisty roads, imo. The best thing these direct injected, quick spool, small turbo engines have is very low turbo lag, not necessarily the big torque available at low rpm. I'd gladly sacrifice 25% of the low rpm torque so that I could have it in the middle and/or higher up, where it's easier and more rewarding to control throttle input. Anyone can slam the loud pedal and go fast in a straight line. When you want to have fun on twisty roads, controlling the engines power in relation to needed grip is what is most fun to me. That's where you want the power, response, and control. Sorry, I kinda went on a tangent. Back to your discussion about freer flowing exhaust. |
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09-23-2011, 11:31 PM | #49 | |
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I wonder about this 17lb ft for MT and 32lb ft for auto. Why would they bother making it different? Then, they also have to make a different tune for the N55, and it too has the same increase in power numbers as well. Most of the increase will be with boost pressure, so it would be more complicated to try and limit torque with MT applications if the boost is already there. Given that HP numbers are the same, and HP is derived from torque anyway, I don't see why BMW bothered with trying to limit the torque while also gaining the same HP as the slushbox. The limited number of reviews (OP here) thus far indicate a very noticeable gain in torque, it's likely that torque increase is the same for MT and auto. The OP says the torque increase is very noticeable. Thinking more on the OPs comments, I wonder if some of the added power feeling might also be due to changes in throttle response? If you quicken response off idle, there will be a feeling of more power. Couple that with the torque and the overall feel is that there is more than the stated number. Why then the different number claim then? I don't know. Last edited by RPM90; 09-23-2011 at 11:38 PM.. |
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09-24-2011, 10:22 AM | #50 | |
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I just had a txt "conversation" with my 16 yo nephew. It appears logic and reading comprehension aren't well developed yet at that age. Mix that with total disregard for grammar and punctuation, and throw in some abbreviations... OMG. WTF. :wow: I will retreat, for the sake of everybody's sanity. There's an old saying... play with babies and you get pissed on. Last edited by MPBK; 09-24-2011 at 03:21 PM.. |
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09-24-2011, 01:10 PM | #51 | |
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Clearly the N54 and N55 tunes from this kit will be different - they are entirely different engines. The final power outputs will certainly be different as well. I think we are seeing big company marketing in play here. Who knows why, but they are being intentionally vague on the details of what this sofware change actually affects. Some marketing team decided it was safer to keep it nebulous. For me, I don't really care about the EXACT numbers. My car is almost new, and I was not about to put an aftermarket tune on it. Don't want the hassle, don't have the time or energy to mess with it, and if something went wrong I wanted the ability to go to the dealer and say 'fix it'. I don't quite understand why some are trying to use the argument that $700-800 for a 20hp gain is not a good ROI versus the aftermarket. First, I think the gain is more than that (again, BMW's conservative numbers), and second, when has an OEM upgrade been less money? That's the reason the aftermarket survives, but there is always a tradeoff. All I know is that for $730.00, my near new car has been uncorked and is simply better and more fun to drive. Great ROI for me. If I were in BMW Marketing, I would make this part of the M Sport package and charge a few more bucks accordingly. Throw in BMW Performance Suspension, non-RFT 225/255 tires, and call it M Sport Stage 2. Make it easy for the guy who comes in for a 1M to still buy a car, and the fact that the DCT is available would close a few more deals too. Last edited by blschaefer1; 09-24-2011 at 01:14 PM.. Reason: typos |
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09-24-2011, 04:56 PM | #52 | |
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A big part of the problem is the claimed HP/torque increase numbers. They are modest at best. 20hp/17lb ft, for the MT really isn't that much increase. For less than half of that you can get a JB+ that is easily installed within 20 minutes, and you get much more power than what BMW claims. I've driven a JB+ 135i and the difference is very noticeable. Along with that tune there have been no problems. It's a solid improvement. From that perspective it makes sense that some of us question the ROI for this tune. The argument that this tune is factory backed and warranted is a decided plus for this tune, no question. I can understand why someone would want this tune if they don't want to risk what could happen with an after market tune. Given your positive experience it seems the numbers advertised are much lower than what you feel. If the dyno's back this up, then that could sway nay sayers to this tune. I know I'm interested, but only once we see some dyno's. For me it would be not just for the added power, but also for the added throttle response. If I keep my 135i $700 for the power you experience and the sharper throttle, plus the warranty, that would sway me. |
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09-24-2011, 05:32 PM | #53 | ||
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09-25-2011, 06:46 PM | #54 | |
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09-25-2011, 07:53 PM | #55 |
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I never had much of an issue with this. I typically engage Sport mode as soon as I get in the car, and I don't get much delay or lag when pulling from a stop. I do notice a very slight delay when not in Sport, but nothing that I consider problem.
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09-25-2011, 09:38 PM | #56 | |
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09-28-2011, 02:00 PM | #58 | |
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BMW also knows there is a market of people willing to drop the cash on more HP. No HP loving BMW engineer, or the approval committee, would waste time on a power package that didn't deliver; fear of bad press is enough to prevent that. Speculations can be fun... |
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09-29-2011, 08:45 PM | #59 |
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FYI, I have noticed that there is less exhaust 'snarl' at cold startup than before the PPK software was installed.
Still loving the increased power / torque !! No way it is just 17 ft lbs. ! |
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09-30-2011, 01:11 AM | #60 |
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thats my favorite part of my day... esp because i park in a parking garage which makes it REALLY loud
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10-01-2011, 11:17 AM | #61 | |
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10-01-2011, 11:38 AM | #62 |
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I'm getting the Stage 1 PPK installed in my car on Wednesday. I'll be glad to post my thoughts & impressions for those who would like a 2nd perspective. Sorry to disappoint though, but I won't be dynoing my car. Like many of you I'd love to see a before & after.
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10-01-2011, 11:41 AM | #63 | |
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How much installed? |
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10-01-2011, 01:04 PM | #64 |
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10-02-2011, 01:48 PM | #65 |
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I forget the exact price they quoted me for the installation, partly b/c the total price also included a hand wash & wax I'm calling them tomorrow though to get the exact numbers, so I'll update the thread then.
Edit: PS my car has the 6M transmission |
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10-02-2011, 02:45 PM | #66 |
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