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[cbl117]

Hey guys. I'm trying to gain better traction off the line and I'm looking for a set of wheels that would allow me to run 235/265 or 245/275 tires.

My mods are listed below. I'm basically FBO minus the down pipe. I'm estimating 340whp. I'm finished with the engine for now but would like to eventually upgrade the oil cooler and go to Dinan stage 3 software. The problem is I cannot put the power I have to the ground. First and second gears require a lot of attention and modulation to prevent the tires from breaking loose.

Is there a wheel that will allow wider rubber to fit without rubbing or fender modification? I hear a lot about apex wheels with a rear offset of 62mm but I'm not sure what the proper offset is for the front. I'm not happy with the hankooks and will be going with nittos or PSS when I make this switch.

I know LSD would solve all my problems but I don't see myself going that route at this time.

[A_Squared]

You are right with the apex wheels with et62 but I've always wondered if they rub on a lowered car. Also wondering what camber is needed back there.

[Kizzu]

First off start by replacing the rear subframe bushings to m3 ones as they help by not loosing the back end easy. Yes the arc-8 are the best choice unless you want custom made alloys which will cost a fortune. The rears will fit 275s just fine though I would not recommend it as it will increase understeer more than the car already has. et45 on the front will accomodate 235s easily too although a 3/5mm spacer might be needed just to prevent slight rubbing against the shock. The ideal is a 245/265 f/r as it will reduce further more understeer and have a good amount of grip. Regarding tyres I personally am going for either a set of yokohamas advan ad08r or toyo proxes, either r1r or r888s as I've riden on my friend's s14 with ad08r's and the grip once warm is simply outstanding

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by Kizzu

First off start by replacing the rear subframe bushings to m3 ones as they help by not loosing the back end easy. Yes the arc-8 are the best choice unless you want custom made alloys which will cost a fortune. The rears will fit 275s just fine though I would not recommend it as it will increase understeer more than the car already has. et45 on the front will accomodate 235s easily too although a 3/5mm spacer might be needed just to prevent slight rubbing against the shock. The ideal is a 245/265 f/r as it will reduce further more understeer and have a good amount of grip. Regarding tyres I personally am going for either a set of yokohamas advan ad08r or toyo proxes, either r1r or r888s as I've riden on my friend's s14 with ad08r's and the grip once warm is simply outstanding

Thanks for the feedback. I've already added the Whiteline rear sub frame bushing inserts and the improvement was vast. Fixed every issue I could notice. I think in my application and experience level the effort to switch to M3 RSFB would be wasted money.

Is there a arc-8 front offset that would eliminate the need for spacers? Will I notice much loss of grip by staying with 265 rather than 275? At that point would tire choice make a bigger difference?

[dcaron9999]

As mentioned by Kizzu, you need a tire set from the "Extreme Performance" category. Look it up on Tirerack.
Best choices but most expensive is Yokohama AD08R.
Then Bridgestone RE-11 (excellent dual duty)
then Dunlop Direzza ZII StarSpec (more track oriented and a little bit rowdy for street use).

Max width you can go on stock 18x7.5 ET49 and 18x8.5 ET52 RIMS without extra camber is 225/40R18 and 255/35R18. You will rub if you go beyond that.

Ideally, if you can afford it, a torsen type LSD from either M-Factory, Quaife, or Wavetrac, will you trnaform you one wheel drive car into a proper two wheel drive, to lay the power down. You also will need M3 or other solid rear subframe bushings. I DIY'ed mine, and they were a PITA to do without proper tools.

See my signature, to see my square 255/35R18 setup on "rear" 18x8.5ET52 stock wheels ... To run this wide in the front, I need 10 mm spacers and -3.2* camber provided by my camber plates and M3 control arms.


You are going to need good camber in the front to run something over 225/235 wide ...

As for an Apex RIM setup - you need 18x8.5 ET40 to ET45 in the front, and ET58 (for 18x9.5 wheels) in the rear ...

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

As mentioned by Kizzu, you need a tire set from the "Extreme Performance" category. Look it up on Tirerack.
Best choices but most expensive is Yokohama AD08R.
Then Bridgestone RE-11 (excellent dual duty)
then Dunlop Direzza ZII StarSpec (more track oriented and a little bit rowdy for street use).


As for an Apex RIM setup - you need 18x8.5 ET40 to ET45 in the front, and ET58 (for 18x9.5 wheels) in the rear ...

Thanks for the tire recommendations. I'll take a look on tirerack. You say Dunlop Direzza Z11 are rowdy for street use, can you explain what that means? Are we talking road noise or vibration or both?

What ET would be more appropriate with a Apex arc-8 at 18x8.5 with 235 wide tire?

[Kizzu]

Originally Posted by cbl117

Thanks for the feedback. I've already added the Whiteline rear sub frame bushing inserts and the improvement was vast. Fixed every issue I could notice. I think in my application and experience level the effort to switch to M3 RSFB would be wasted money.

Is there a arc-8 front offset that would eliminate the need for spacers? Will I notice much loss of grip by staying with 265 rather than 275? At that point would tire choice make a bigger difference?

Heard about whitelines and was interested in buying a set, are there any extra noises/vibrations with them installed? Back to topic, the tyres I mentioned are r-comps so they run wider than mostly everything else, so lets say you buy a 265 r-comp tyre.. It will pro bably be wider than a 275 summer tire. Now regarding front offsets.. There is a user here running a set of arc 8s and if you search his build on the autocross/racing section you'll find some interesting information about both offsets, allignments, types of tyres etc.
His user is @kgolf and perhaps you might get informed more from him than me.
Again.. Apex released specific fitments for our 1's so I would assume that an 8.5j et45 tyre with 245s will fit with no issues but I doubt that.. Especially if you run r-comps which run wider. If you don't want spacers than they have 8.5j et40 but that will really push it and you'd have to work out a way around the outer fender then not the inside. But as I said I'm not 100%sure about this.

[dcaron9999]

I highly recommend using this offset/ calculator. Based on your orignal fitment, it will let you know how much clearance to the fender and to strut you will end up with ...

http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

Do you ever bring this car to the track, or it is a street machine only?

I dont recommend R comps, unless you have a lot of track experience. Even some that do have experience, choose to stay on street tires, in the Extreme Performance category ...

To answer your question about the Direzza ZII, they are noisy, and have stiff sidewalls that transmit all road imperfections. Really targetetd as a track tire, with some street use. I use the ZII's and prefer them over the RE-11's, but I use my 135i on the track 70% of the time, and on the street 30% of the time.

The slightly softer sidewall Bridgestone RE-11 which I ran for a year on my dual duty 135i, were really amazing on the dry and wet streets, and pretty decent on the track too, but not as much as the ZII's.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I dont recommend R comps, unless you have a lot of track experience. Even some that do have experience, choose to stay on street tires, in the Extreme Performance category ...

Not to mention, R-comps for regular driving will provide average grip at best since they won't heat up. Running them cold repeatedly may even kill their useful life rather quickly.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by Kizzu

Heard about whitelines and was interested in buying a set, are there any extra noises/vibrations with them installed? Back to topic, the tyres I mentioned are r-comps so they run wider than mostly everything else, so lets say you buy a 265 r-comp tyre.. It will pro bably be wider than a 275 summer tire. Now regarding front offsets.. There is a user here running a set of arc 8s and if you search his build on the autocross/racing section you'll find some interesting information about both offsets, allignments, types of tyres etc.
His user is @kgolf and perhaps you might get informed more from him than me.
Again.. Apex released specific fitments for our 1's so I would assume that an 8.5j et45 tyre with 245s will fit with no issues but I doubt that.. Especially if you run r-comps which run wider. If you don't want spacers than they have 8.5j et40 but that will really push it and you'd have to work out a way around the outer fender then not the inside. But as I said I'm not 100%sure about this.

Thanks for the input. I'll do a search for kgolf.

The white line inserts were the best suspension mod I've done. They really stabilized the rear end and eliminated the constant micro corrections in turns. The ride did stiffen up quite a bit with them which does make you feel the road imperfections more. No harsh vibrations though.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I highly recommend using this offset/ calculator. Based on your orignal fitment, it will let you know how much clearance to the fender and to strut you will end up with ...

http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

Do you ever bring this car to the track, or it is a street machine only?

I dont recommend R comps, unless you have a lot of track experience. Even some that do have experience, choose to stay on street tires, in the Extreme Performance category ...

To answer your question about the Direzza ZII, they are noisy, and have stiff sidewalls that transmit all road imperfections. Really targetetd as a track tire, with some street use. I use the ZII's and prefer them over the RE-11's, but I use my 135i on the track 70% of the time, and on the street 30% of the time.

The slightly softer sidewall Bridgestone RE-11 which I ran for a year on my dual duty 135i, were really amazing on the dry and wet streets, and pretty decent on the track too, but not as much as the ZII's.

The car is 100% street machine for the time being. Sounds like I should stay clear of r-comps.

I'll take a look at the calculator to see what my options are. will I need to take into account the added thickness of my Bilstein HD dampers?

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I highly recommend using this offset/ calculator. Based on your orignal fitment, it will let you know how much clearance to the fender and to strut you will end up with ...

http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

So I played around with the tool for a while. It seems like with the setup I'm looking at:

APEX EC-7
Front: 235/40 18 x 8.5" 45ET
Rear: 265/35 18x9.5" 58ET

In the rear I will be about 0.6" closer to the suspension and brakes and protruding from the fender by an additional 0.2"

In the front I have the opposite where I'm protruding from the fender by an additional 0.6" and 0.2" closer to the suspension and brakes.

I'm lowered on BMWP suspension and I still have about a finger and a half gap between the fender and tire, so I think the fillout will be acceptable which is 0.27".

Does anyone have any experience with these wheels? I see a lot of people say to go with a 62ET in the rear but that gets you 0.8" closer to the brakes/suspension and the same fender clearance. Does the rear have that much room on the inside?

[Kgolf31]

Like you said, a LSD would help alot in addition to shock valving adjustments like compression (you'd be amazed at this). But you're talking easily $5k+ on these 2 items combined.

I run 17x8.5 ET40 with Hankook RS3s on 245/40/17. I've also ran Dunlop ZIIs on this setup.

I ran the front wheels on a 5mm spacer to clear my coilovers, effectively making them ET35.

Running ET35, you have to run a ton of camber up front to "tuck" the tire underneath the fender.

ET40 in the rear, I had to run around -2* camber to fit the wheel underneath the car.

This is what it looks like:



As for you, as long as you don't run into issues up front with clearance (since you're running BMWP suspension you should be okay)

There is a ton of interior room in the rear, just jack your car up and stick you head in there and take some measurements.


Tires to look at: Hankook RS3s, Dunlop ZIIs, BFG Rivals. Keep in mind, these tires will wear out in less than 15k or so miles, will have minimal grip when cold. They will tramline on the road, and will most likely be kind of noisy on the highway. But if you want grip, this is the way

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Like you said, a LSD would help alot in addition to shock valving adjustments like compression (you'd be amazed at this). But you're talking easily $5k+ on these 2 items combined.

I run 17x8.5 ET40 with Hankook RS3s on 245/40/17. I've also ran Dunlop ZIIs on this setup.

I ran the front wheels on a 5mm spacer to clear my coilovers, effectively making them ET35.

Running ET35, you have to run a ton of camber up front to "tuck" the tire underneath the fender.

ET40 in the rear, I had to run around -2* camber to fit the wheel underneath the car.

This is what it looks like:



As for you, as long as you don't run into issues up front with clearance (since you're running BMWP suspension you should be okay)

There is a ton of interior room in the rear, just jack your car up and stick you head in there and take some measurements.


Tires to look at: Hankook RS3s, Dunlop ZIIs, BFG Rivals. Keep in mind, these tires will wear out in less than 15k or so miles, will have minimal grip when cold. They will tramline on the road, and will most likely be kind of noisy on the highway. But if you want grip, this is the way

Great feedback, thank you. Its interesting that you needed ET35 to clear your front coilovers. Are your coilovers muxch wider in diameter compared to stock suspension? I was looking at 18x8.5 ET45 and wonder if I will hit my bilstein dampers or springs.

You mentioned minimal grip when cold with the tires listed above. Will I reach optimal operating temps to achieve the best grip with normal commuting, or are track conditions needed to bring out the best? I guess what I'm trying to ask is: are the tires you listed above the best choices for street tires?

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by cbl117

Great feedback, thank you. Its interesting that you needed ET35 to clear your front coilovers. Are your coilovers muxch wider in diameter compared to stock suspension? I was looking at 18x8.5 ET45 and wonder if I will hit my bilstein dampers or springs.

You mentioned minimal grip when cold with the tires listed above. Will I reach optimal operating temps to achieve the best grip with normal commuting, or are track conditions needed to bring out the best? I guess what I'm trying to ask is: are the tires you listed above the best choices for street tires?

Because the car is low my wheel needs to be outside farther to clear the perch. If the perch sat higher I'd basically be the same offset as OEM and be okay. If you're lower you "might" run into perch issues. You gotta see where they sit currently with a tire.


The tires are high performance tires. In order for them to get optimal grip they need to be tracked, or driven hard. With that being said, they get to temp very quickly, but driving on the street won't do this.

I like RS3s and ZIIs. The ZIIs have a stiffer sidewall, so they might be a bit more noisy.

Fair warning, if you're DDing the tires only, these might be overkill

[Freon]

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862626

Not lowered, but should be helpful. 255/35/18 in the front on a 18x8.5 +45 is fine for a PSS without hitting the strut. It's extremely tight, but works. I suspect it will be ok with a typical performance street tire (Z2, Rival, R888, etc.) but not a race slick.

You really don't want to add a spacer in front until you are sure you are hitting the strut. Camber to clear the fender is more important, plus the car needs more front camber regardless or you will just roll the front tires over when driving hard.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Because the car is low my wheel needs to be outside farther to clear the perch. If the perch sat higher I'd basically be the same offset as OEM and be okay. If you're lower you "might" run into perch issues. You gotta see where they sit currently with a tire.


The tires are high performance tires. In order for them to get optimal grip they need to be tracked, or driven hard. With that being said, they get to temp very quickly, but driving on the street won't do this.

I like RS3s and ZIIs. The ZIIs have a stiffer sidewall, so they might be a bit more noisy.

Fair warning, if you're DDing the tires only, these might be overkill

Ah, makes sense now. Thanks for explaining it to me. .

These tires will be strictly DD. I'm just looking for a tire that I can DD, take some on ramp turns quick on and be able to jump on the car from a stop and row through the gears and have max traction. I may be searching for a white unicorn so let me know if I am.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by Freon

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862626

Not lowered, but should be helpful. 255/35/18 in the front on a 18x8.5 +45 is fine for a PSS without hitting the strut. It's extremely tight, but works. I suspect it will be ok with a typical performance street tire (Z2, Rival, R888, etc.) but not a race slick.

You really don't want to add a spacer in front until you are sure you are hitting the strut. Camber to clear the fender is more important, plus the car needs more front camber regardless or you will just roll the front tires over when driving hard.

Freon, thanks. I'll take a look at that thread when I'm not on my blackberry. Will report back .

[Pothole]

I needed ET 35 in front on an 8,5 inch wide wheel to clear the coilover adjustment ring. It almost touches the wheel. I run a 215 front tire on that. (yes its stretches).

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Freon

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862626

Not lowered, but should be helpful. 255/35/18 in the front on a 18x8.5 +45 is fine for a PSS without hitting the strut. It's extremely tight, but works. I suspect it will be ok with a typical performance street tire (Z2, Rival, R888, etc.) but not a race slick.

You really don't want to add a spacer in front until you are sure you are hitting the strut. Camber to clear the fender is more important, plus the car needs more front camber regardless or you will just roll the front tires over when driving hard.

I saw you mention R888 and thought I should say it runs super wide, this is a 255/35/18 AD08R (which already runs square and wide) compared to a 255/35/18 R888.

[Pyrat 2]

FWIW I needed an et40 offset to clear my Bilstein Sport struts with 245/35 MPSS in front. I assume that the HDs are the same diameter strut body since I believe that the only difference is the length of the piston. I may be able to get away with an ET42 but know for a fact that ET45 won't work (at least on my car). You'll need some camber dialed in to make it work without hitting the fender. I'm at -1.5 with no rub.

[cbl117]

Originally Posted by HeelToe

FWIW I needed an et40 offset to clear my Bilstein Sport struts with 245/35 MPSS in front. I assume that the HDs are the same diameter strut body since I believe that the only difference is the length of the piston. I may be able to get away with an ET42 but know for a fact that ET45 won't work (at least on my car). You'll need some camber dialed in to make it work without hitting the fender. I'm at -1.5 with no rub.

Heeltoe, good data. I was planning to try 235/40 in the front. Do you have any experience with with that?

With an et40 in the front did you require any fender work or just camber? Are you lowered at all?