Porsche Cayman R vs. BMW 1 Series M by The Smoking Tire

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by b33g33

Do you mean this Evo article where they picked the 1M over the Cayman R?

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=628462

"High-speed corners reveal understeer, but you can play with the weight transfer on turn- in with a slight lift of the throttle to get things neutralised. Thanks to the R’s weight savings, none of these handling traits is too snappy, and it’s certainly effective – posting a 1.25.5 lap time – but consistently working at the limit of the tyres’ grip does reveal a more expressive side to the Cayman R.

The 1M is a big surprise for different reasons. It generates tremendous grip and traction, putting all its prodigious, overboost-fattened torque into the tarmac with little complaint. Where the M diff could at times feel abrupt on the road, it works brilliantly on the track, giving the car a beautifully neutral balance, with the ability to be steered precisely on the throttle. Crucially, it still generates plenty of forward momentum, so you can let the 1M slide without it degenerating into a pointless drift challenge. The brakes – so often a cause for complaint on M-cars – have power and stamina too, making this an accomplished and entertaining trackday machine. It manages a best lap just 0.4sec shy of the Cayman and, ironically, identical to the E92 M3, albeit on a different day with a different driver."

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The BMW and Porsche were always going to be the stars of the test, but it would have taken a braver man than I to predict a winner before we began. The Cayman R has been widely – and rightly – praised for its commitment to mass reduction and subsequently brilliant handling. Truth be told we were all under its spell for the first day of the test, dazzled by its brilliance and mesmerised by its purity and fitness for purpose. As photographer Jamie Lipman said while shooting details: ‘They can even paint it a hideous green and stick a stupid spoiler on the back and I still want one!’

However, the longer we spent with it and the more times we swapped to and from the 1M, the greater the admiration and affection we felt for the BMW. It’s not that we fell out of love with the Cayman, far from it in fact. Indeed, our guest tester, sports car racer Andy Wallace, almost had a tear in his eye when he proclaimed it ‘the best-handling road car I think I’ve ever driven’. Both Catchpole and I were with him on that, yet the charms of the 1M were proving impossible to resist.

No, it doesn’t have the immaculate polish and homogenous tactility of the Porsche – the brakes are over-assisted at road speeds and it lacks the remarkable pliancy and supple body control of the Cayman – but it counters with scintillating overtaking ability, greater levels of mechanical grip and a handling balance that’s almost as sweet. Emotionally the clincher is its unique character and thoroughly up-for-it attitude. Factor-in its four useable seats, on-track ability and a £16K price advantage in as-tested spec and it’s clear the 1M sets a new benchmark for only-car, multi-purpose, real-life ability and desirability. It’s been a long time coming, but we’re delighted to say M’s new baby is more than worth the wait.


Topgear also picked the 1M over the Cayman R (track + road performance)

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=520636&page=5

There you go, while I was reminding and talking seconds before you posted, you just quoted the exact lines

[ric80]

Hi All! I wanted to say hey-- been lurking and have just bought my first BMW, a 2009 128i convertible.

This month, I test drove a couple 135i's and 128i's and brought home the 128i last night.

The reason I chose the 128 over the 135? Honestly, the 135i was too scary fast for my wife. She forbade it. I've a 14 year old, and I expect that once he is over 16, we will let him drive the car on special occasions, and to be honest, he would kill himself with all of that power. So we chose the 128i-- plenty of power, but not crazy power.

My other car is a 2000 Porsche Boxster S. So this thread is interesting.

I have to tell you, the 135 and the Boxster S are two very different animals. The 2009 135i is much faster than my 2000s (I expect the 2009 Boxster is comperable speedwise). Wow is it crazy fast. It absolutely shocked me and the missus. I was grinning so wide I almost lost an ear. WHAT FUN.

The boxster handles much better. In the 135i, I felt tall on the road-- almost too high. Its handling is swimmier compared to the Boxster which is crazy precise.

The BMW is nicer on the inside-- more sedan-like, while the Boxster is spare.

I bought the 128i for the same reason the reviewers like the 1M-- a seat for my kids, to take on trips, for the fun ride (and still quite nice power), and for the bit of niceness.

My Boxster is just a hoot to take around any corner. Not "nice" at all.

Anyway-- Great to meet you all-- I like my new (to me) car.

---Ric (in Maryland)

BTW-- has anybody figured out that Nav thing? Any good resources for it??

[ric80]

Just in case my post wasn't clearly connected to the thread-- my thoughts are these: The cars are too dissimilar in purpose. In all of these reviews, they like the two cars for different reasons.

When the Cayman "wins" it is for performance mainly. When the 1M "wins" it is because it is cheaper and more flexible in its use.

I think the same things about my two cars-- one is for fun twisties and the other for fun twisties with the kids.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by ric80

Just in case my post wasn't clearly connected to the thread-- my thoughts are these: The cars are too dissimilar in purpose. In all of these reviews, they like the two cars for different reasons.

When the Cayman "wins" it is for performance mainly. When the 1M "wins" it is because it is cheaper and more flexible in its use.

I think the same things about my two cars-- one is for fun twisties and the other for fun twisties with the kids.

First of all, congrats on your new car.

If you are basing your comparison on the Boxter S vs the 128/135, you are not getting the full picture.

The 1M does not give anything up in performance to the Cayman R. It is almost as potent a track machine and you really have to spend some time in it to appreciate how different it is from the non-M versions.

There is nothing 'swimmy' or vague about the 1M. In fact, when I had a 335is as a loaner while the 1M was getting some work done, I was very surprised at how much more focused the 1'er was. It also rides a LOT better than the 135 or the 335is. I have not found it to be significantly less pliant than my buddy's 2011 Cayman S. The R, I believe, rides a lot harder.

[crex]

Originally Posted by firechicken99

LOL!! Technically... You can still get a 1M

Do share how to buy a bmw 1M new from the dealer?

[crex]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

And They are SO mean! I heard them talking and planning about screwing as many customers as possible.

Well yes, that is how it went for the US market.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by crex

Well yes, that is how it went for the US market.

Even if it is a big market, US is just another market. It got 740 of them. Second best in the world just after Germany (thanks to continuing extra allocations for some markets like Germany till 29th of June 2012 when it all stopped). Yes, it is not what everyone wanted to see but this car was all about "limited" since it was announced by BMW back in July 2010. That's exactly the time that I started getting ready in all senses to buy one. So I feel like maybe everyone who really and badly wanted one had one. Which makes the ownership all the more sweeter for most. I feel like it was a tiny little accomplishment and therefore a priviledge to buy and hold one.

Plus, there is nothing wrong with buying a decently used one. Some are going basically better than delivery day condition with just break-in period mileage on them. I never heard the new buyers complaining about anything, on the contrary.

For BMW there were/are other cars to make more profit from, 1M was a test case, with a mission and a deadline, so done and gone.

[Alpine*]

Australia has ended up with ~300 cars versus the original allocation being only 100. The dealers kept calling prospective clients saying "managed to get my hands on an allocation, be quick do you want it?" meanwhile the cars kept coming and coming and coming. This is both good and bad IMHO, good cause I got a second car bad because they are not as "limited" as they were supposed to be and as such retained value will inevitably be impacted.

Re the 1M versus Cayman R ONGOING discussions, I have both so can make some valid comparisons, as I have elsewhere some time ago. The 1M is a great daily driver proposition, slide in and go. It has a back seat and a decent boot and looks and drives the part. The Porka, well it is not a good daily prospect, awkward to ingress and egress, portrays an image that I do not need/want with my clients and depreciates quickly as the mileage goes up.

In Aus a Cayman R was 65% more expensive than a 1M, WAY different price point and one that, here in Aus at least, rarely do people cross shop. The Porka is dainty in the way it translates the road through to your hands, the 1M is more of a hammer hahahaha. The Porka you sit in, the 1M you sit on, this really sets the tone for how the two differ in terms of driving them, the Porka wants and needs a track where as the 1M is a workhorse for any occasion.

By the way, I am selling the Porka R, mainly for the reasons I mentioned above, the replacement is a BSM 1M.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by AlpineM3E92

Re the 1M versus Cayman R ONGOING discussions, I have both so can make some valid comparisons, as I have elsewhere some time ago. The 1M is a great daily driver proposition, slide in and go. It has a back seat and a decent boot and looks and drives the part. The Porka, well it is not a good daily prospect, awkward to ingress and egress, portrays an image that I do not need/want with my clients and depreciates quickly as the mileage goes up.

In Aus a Cayman R was 65% more expensive than a 1M, WAY different price point and one that, here in Aus at least, rarely do people cross shop. The Porka is dainty in the way it translates the road through to your hands, the 1M is more of a hammer hahahaha. The Porka you sit in, the 1M you sit on, this really sets the tone for how the two differ in terms of driving them, the Porka wants and needs a track where as the 1M is a workhorse for any occasion.

By the way, I am selling the Porka R, mainly for the reasons I mentioned above, the replacement is a BSM 1M.

And the grand finale for this discussion

[BMW-driver]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

No offense to anyone, but this is a laghable review...the other reviews posted between the two are much more balanced and IMO after driving both on a few occassions the Cayman R is the one to have.

+1. Although it is a nice/funny video as well, fun to watch. But the Cayman R is the better car, period (I would prefer the Boxster Spyder. It is the lightest Porsche is in most occasions is even faster then the Cayman R, better looking then the Cayman R and more exiting - sound! - because it's an open car).

BUT

If you consider price and praticallity, then the 1M is the better choise. And also the 1M has better looks then the Cayman R.

BUT (2)

In my opinion it's wrong to compare the 1M (4 seated saloon) with a Porsche (2 seated nible sportscar). You should compare the 1M to the AudiRS3! Then I would really prefer the 1M, o yes, o doubts..

Just some video's about the 1M
video 1: Professional driver Peter Knox 'doesn't like the 1M..'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68c3HvssMxU


video 2: 1M vs Cayman R 1/4 mile, Cayman R = faster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qHTODaTSoo

video 3: Randy Pobst about the 1M and Cayman R. Randy is not that positive about the 1M. Cayman R = faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=mTCmNjHGzl0

But what the heck: I like my 1M !

[b33g33]

[QUOTE=BMW-driver]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

No offense to anyone, but this is a laghable review...the other reviews posted between the two are much more balanced and IMO after driving both on a few occassions the Cayman R is the one to have.[

+1. Although it is a nice/funny video as well, fun to watch. But the Cayman R is the better car, period (I would prefer the Boxster Spyder. It is the lightest Porsche is in most occasions is even faster then the Cayman R, better looking then the Cayman R and more exiting - sound! - because it's an open car).

BUT

If you consider price and praticallity, then the 1M is the better choise. And also the 1M has better looks then the Cayman R.

BUT (2)

In my opinion it's wrong to compare the 1M (4 seated saloon) with a Porsche (2 seated nible sportscar). You should compare the 1M to the AudiRS3! Then I would really prefer the 1M, o yes, o doubts..

Just some video's about the 1M
video 1: Professional driver Peter Knox 'doesn't like the 1M..'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68c3HvssMxU


video 2: 1M vs Cayman R 1/4 mile, Cayman R = faster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qHTODaTSoo

video 3: Randy Pobst about the 1M and Cayman R. Randy is not that positive about the 1M. Cayman R = faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=mTCmNjHGzl0

/QUOTE]

Can we take Pobst off the objective reviewer list?


Anyone who said "I hate, hate, hate this car' is hardly a credible source.

FWIW, I am considering getting a Cayman S as a DD in a few years when the 1M will become the weekend car. Well, that or a F80 M3

[BMW-driver]

Hi b33q33, not only Pobst - as (formal) profeesional driver - is not that possitive about the 1M.. but it's not important, the 1M is great fun to drive!

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by BMW-driver

+1. Although it is a nice/funny video as well, fun to watch. But the Cayman R is the better car, period (I would prefer the Boxster Spyder. It is the lightest Porsche is in most occasions is even faster then the Cayman R, better looking then the Cayman R and more exiting - sound! - because it's an open car).

BUT

If you consider price and praticallity, then the 1M is the better choise. And also the 1M has better looks then the Cayman R.

BUT (2)

In my opinion it's wrong to compare the 1M (4 seated saloon) with a Porsche (2 seated nible sportscar). You should compare the 1M to the AudiRS3! Then I would really prefer the 1M, o yes, o doubts..

Just some video's about the 1M
video 1: Professional driver Peter Knox 'doesn't like the 1M..'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68c3HvssMxU


video 2: 1M vs Cayman R 1/4 mile, Cayman R = faster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qHTODaTSoo

video 3: Randy Pobst about the 1M and Cayman R. Randy is not that positive about the 1M. Cayman R = faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=mTCmNjHGzl0

But what the heck: I like my 1M !

Originally Posted by b33g33

First of all, congrats on your new car.

If you are basing your comparison on the Boxter S vs the 128/135, you are not getting the full picture.

The 1M does not give anything up in performance to the Cayman R. It is almost as potent a track machine and you really have to spend some time in it to appreciate how different it is from the non-M versions.

There is nothing 'swimmy' or vague about the 1M. In fact, when I had a 335is as a loaner while the 1M was getting some work done, I was very surprised at how much more focused the 1'er was. It also rides a LOT better than the 135 or the 335is. I have not found it to be significantly less pliant than my buddy's 2011 Cayman S. The R, I believe, rides a lot harder.

The 1M def gives up a lot on the track to the R. I cant think of any track its faster on and in most cases its 2+ seconds slower on any lap 3 min or under...which equates to a big difference. Just look at the lap times posted on fastest laps.
The 1M also isnt vague, but its much less compliant at the limit (and less planted) and is certainly not AS pinpoint scalpel like the way a Cayman S or R are.

As far as reviews go, the Randy Pobst one is the only one I could actually trust. Matt Farah is a two bit hack. It seems those people who actually have real credibility as ex pro drivers find the Cayman R to be the better car. Not saying the 1M is bad, but that is what Ive seen trend in the reviews.

In the end, pick your poison...each car is going to work depending on what youre looking for (always a caveat)...mine at the moment is still my e92 m3. I tend to prefer an N/A engine over turbo as well and the S65 is an absolutel GEM that nothing else BMW has out right now can touch in terms of engines go.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by BMW-driver

Hi b33q33, not only Pobst - as (formal) profeesional driver - is not that possitive about the 1M.. but it's not important, the 1M is great fun to drive!

I don't want to turn this into yet another rant on Pobst, but I have an issue when people bring up his 'opinion' to counter what they feel is a less objective review from someone (like Farah) who likes the 1M.

He may be an accomplished driver but he can't write worth a damn and is too biased and opinionated to be a reviewer. Writers like Pobst is one of the reasons US car magazines are rapidly becoming irrelevant.


Interestingly, Pobst, and pretty much anyone who has actually driven the 1M, seems to have a very visceral and emotional reaction to it. This is also something to recognize when it comes to the 1M. It is a car that is capable of generating a very strong emotional response from the driver which elevates it beyond the clinically capable Cayman R.

Iceman or Maverick.

Who do you want to be?

[BMW-driver]

Originally Posted by b33g33

I don't want to turn this into yet another rant on Pobst, but I have an issue when people bring up his 'opinion' to counter what they feel is a less objective review from someone (like Farah) who likes the 1M.

He may be an accomplished driver but he can't write worth a damn and is too biased and opinionated to be a reviewer. Writers like Pobst is one of the reasons US car magazines are rapidly becoming irrelevant.


Interestingly, Pobst, and pretty much anyone who has actually driven the 1M, seems to have a very visceral and emotional reaction to it. This is also something to recognize when it comes to the 1M. It is a car that is capable of generating a very strong emotional response from the driver which elevates it beyond the clinically capable Cayman R.

Iceman or Maverick.

Who do you want to be?

-1 wrong in the way you put it there.
The R is the better car, period. But the better car is not always the car you want. If thats your point, I absolutely agree. I want the 1M (like you? . To say that the R is clinically, haha, then you don't know what you are talking about. I am sorry b33g33, but that is complete nonsence.
Even though, I like the rough ride in my 1M

[b33g33]

I haven't driven the R but I've had quite a bit of seat time in the S and it is clinical and precise compared to the 1M.

Not sure if you understood what I meant by clinical earlier. It's not a negative term. So, here's another analogy: Federer vs Nadal.

Guess who the 1M is.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by b33g33

I haven't driven the R but I've had quite a bit of seat time in the S and it is clinical and precise compared to the 1M.

Not sure if you understood what I meant by clinical earlier. It's not a negative term. So, here's another analogy: Federer vs Nadal.

Guess who the 1M is.

So you have no seat time in an R...how about a 1M?

[b33g33]

Hard not to have seat time in a car that's been my DD since Dec '11.

Hi, have we met? I ask because I'm pretty sure you commented on my PCD thread. If you're trolling try somewhere else. I was not.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by b33g33

I haven't driven the R but I've had quite a bit of seat time in the S and it is clinical and precise compared to the 1M.

Not sure if you understood what I meant by clinical earlier. It's not a negative term. So, here's another analogy: Federer vs Nadal.

Guess who the 1M is.

You remember the analogy Bond vs. Bourne? Or better even, Superman vs. Iron Man? 1M was of course the second in both analogies made by fellow Forum members and they were both against the M3.

I think 1M vs. Cayman R or vs. M3 always comes down to personal preferances at the end: like people who love the high revving NA engines and don't have any problem with pushing up to redline as often as possible have a tendency to like the M3 whereas people who appreciate compact cars, relative lightness and surge of gobs of torque from low down love the 1M. Cayman R vs. 1M discussion is no different in this sense. It is no wonder that an M3 owner/admirer feels like the Cayman R is just plain perfection, the way that a sports car should be defined and 1M is somehow less impressive. If I would live near Laguna Seca or Nurburgring with a stable full of different cars and had plenty of time to spend on track I would probably say the same (still would keep a 1M though, I have a huge stable in this dream world, remember that please)

But I live in a city of 7 million people, I have only one other car that my wife drives most of the time which is a crossover SUV. I actually have a demanding and quite formal job that doesn't leave me the kind of time I wish I had for fun driving. And last but not least I have two small kids who like to get in daddy's orange car time to time. So, I think I should take myself out of this discussion at this point since I feel like I made myself crystal clear

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by b33g33

Hard not to have seat time in a car that's been my DD since Dec '11.

Hi, have we met? I ask because I'm pretty sure you commented on my PCD thread. If you're trolling try somewhere else. I was not.

I don't keep track of what threads I respond to. sorry. I didn't see your car listed in your profile, thats why I asked. No need to be a smart ass.

[firechicken99]

Originally Posted by crex

Do share how to buy a bmw 1M new from the dealer?

I never said new

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I don't keep track of what threads I respond to. sorry. I didn't see your car listed in your profile, thats why I asked. No need to be a smart ass.

The way I see it, I simply responded to your smart ass question with a smart ass response.

I have no interest in getting into a pissing match here, so I'll bow out of this thread.

It's been done to to death.