|
|
|
|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
02-14-2009, 08:43 PM | #1 |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
TC Kline, Vorshlag, Kosei K1, Z1's and 38 lbs. of unsprung weight...
Well through the winter months the car is finally coming together:
TC Kline DA coilovers with 350 front and 500 rear springs Vorshalg camber plates Kosei K1 17x8.5 et40 235/40/17 Dunlop Z1's v32.1 BMW ECU software The TC Kline DA coilovers are great. I am lowered 1 inch from stock ride height front and rear currently. The spring rates are a good start but I will need to autocross/track the car to get a better feel if I want more. My first autocross should be mid March as winter is still upon us here in Denver... Vorshlag plates are nice but need to be in the forward caster position for max negative camber. Here is the scoop: In the forward caster position (7 degrees of caster) I am getting a maximum negative camber of 2.8 degrees. The plates are maxed out at this ride height and do not interfere with the strut hole opening although it is very close (see picture). Remember I am lowered 1 inch so going lower should give more negative camber. FYI: If you want to run the caster in the rear position on the camber plates (9 degrees caster), I could only get 1.8 degrees negative camber before interfering with the strut hole opening. I weighed everything and the stock suspension taken off was roughly 1 lb heavier than the new stuff I put on. So, no major gain there. I was originally struggling with the whole 17 or 18 wheel issue but cheaper and lighter always wins out in my book...I lost 38 lbs. of unsprung weight from the stock set up!!! The 235 Z1 is roughly the width of the stock 245 Bridgestone runflat for reference. I will look at bigger tire fitment in the rear at some point but I wanted a front to rear swapable, non staggered set up to start. There is no rub or any issue with current set up, however, in stock form the front will rub just slightly on the inside fender under hard compression with these wheels and tires. Alignment is a must after everything is installed. The stock wheels look quite a bit different when they are on the car compared to the Kosei's. The stock wheels have a high offset and really tuck under the fenders making the car look much more lower. Just a visual anomally but something worth mentioning if comparing "lowered" pictures of the 135i. Just a note on the new v32.1 BMW ECU software...absolutely amazing compared to whatever crap was on the car previous (7/2008 build date). Very good stuff for sure. Last edited by MINI135i; 02-17-2009 at 10:51 AM.. |
02-15-2009, 07:25 AM | #2 |
Captain
62
Rep 657
Posts |
I concur with your choice on the 17" setup, especially since I already have 2 sets of the wheels. When I bolted them up on mine, it seemed like they stuck out a lot further up front. Must be the added camber that pulls them under the wheel well.
How does it drive on the street? I have been considering a similar setup, although I might go a a bit higher in spring rate. I don't do auto-x any more, but I do spend time on the track. (http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...48&postcount=5) I really don't want to lower the car much (I was glad to be able to clear a dead armadillo this week!). Can it be set any higher than -1" with the TCK setup? |
Appreciate
0
|
02-15-2009, 08:56 AM | #3 |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
With a good alignment it drives great on the street. I run the DA struts at full soft when on the street and it is quite comfortable. Much more comfortable than a stock Cooper S for example. Once the dampers are firmed up for racing it is very stiff and rides hard for normal street driving, but that's the advantage of being able to adjust the dampers. The dreaded forward and back bobbing motion upon acceleration and deceleration is gone with this setup! Body roll has greatly decreased and I think a big front sway bar will continue to decrease the roll.
The TC Kline setup will go higher than 1 inch drop but I am guessing not much more than 1/2 inch. The 1 inch drop is incredibly manageable on the street. I have driven lower cars and this 1 inch height is very easy. TC Kline is runing his car at 1.5 inch drop. I tried 1.5 but I needed a compromise for street driving so I went with 1 inch. I included some shots of your car from another post for a direct comparison of camber and wheel gap. I believe your tires were completely worn so take that into consideration when looking at wheel gap: |
Appreciate
0
|
02-15-2009, 01:12 PM | #6 |
Captain
62
Rep 657
Posts |
Thanks for the input. I went looking for that old thread to find those pictures and couldn't locate it!
The wheel gap doesn't concern me. I'm not making changes for the looks. Those tires were shaved RA1's from my E36. I just didn't want them to contact the fenders on bumps and turns. |
Appreciate
0
|
02-15-2009, 04:52 PM | #7 |
Private First Class
19
Rep 170
Posts
Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
|
MINI135i - what made you decide to go with the TCK's? I have been seriously considering going this route but know they are much more expensive than KW Variant 2's that I am also interested in. Looks great and appreciate your sharing your pic's and experience.
__________________
DD & Track Car: 2011 E90 M3 w/Ohlin R&T's, Vorshlag camber plates, Hotchkis swaybars and other mods.
(2008 135i modded - SOLD, 2006 E90 330xi - SOLD, 1995 M3 track car - SOLD) |
Appreciate
0
|
02-16-2009, 11:27 AM | #8 | |
Banned
2
Rep 76
Posts |
Quote:
We tend to recommend -3° to -4° front camber for track use, depending on grip level and strut style. An inverted strut has less deflection under cornering/braking loads and tends to work well with less static negative camber. 45mm top shafts = big like a pickle. We use this on our brand new 5100/5200/5300 struts for the 1 series The latest version of the Vorshlag E82/E90 camber-caster plates are shipping with a thicker top ring (.250" vs .100" thick - see pics below) and an all new top nut (for use on KWs and OEM struts that have a very short upper strut stem) that allow the strut nut to fit under the factory strut tower "bar" over the full range of camber adjustment. On a car with adjustable, non-inverted struts like your Konis the brace tends to get in the way of the Rebound knob (or like with our AST 5300s and Remote Reservoirs shown below, it gets in the way of the reservoir hose) and the bar gets chucked in the trash. That's OK - the factory strut "bar" with it's crude 2-bolt mounting is pretty much worthless. Still, we've gone to great lengths (3 top nut revisions and 2 top ring designs) to make our plates work with this bar in most cases. Cheers, |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-16-2009, 05:02 PM | #9 | |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
Quote:
No, probably not going that route. I might take the car a little lower if I want more negative camber but I think I will be happy with near 3 degrees negative. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-16-2009, 05:07 PM | #10 | |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
Quote:
The 5300 AST's that Fair mentioned above are real beauties but like anything you have to "pay to play". I wouldn't think twice about running TC Klines or AST for that matter, both are great products. The KW's are very nice also but didn't fit what I needed. Kind of just depends on what features you want... Last edited by MINI135i; 02-17-2009 at 10:41 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-02-2009, 10:40 PM | #11 |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
Just put a 32 mm Hotchkis sway bar up front and car continues to get even better!
Roll is decreased further and there is an increased ability to put down power through the rear tires exiting a turn. |
Appreciate
0
|
04-03-2009, 01:04 AM | #12 |
Supreme Allied Commander
3843
Rep 54,362
Posts
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-25-2009, 10:45 PM | #13 |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
Added the newly designed Hawk Ht-10's and some Motul 600 fluid for an open lap day at our new track High Plains Raceway: http://www.highplainsraceway.com/
Overall, very impressed with the set up. Firmed up the TC Kline coilovers and the car was very good. The car drives "heavier" than a Lotus Elise, Mini S, or supercharged Miata because...well... it is heavier, but the power is so good and the overall balance was great. Did not have any problematic issues with understeer that couldn't be tweaked to perfection with the dual adjustable TC Klines. Driver being equal, I feel the 135i is faster around the track then any of the above mentioned cars I have tracked. Power + suspension is always a good mix on the track! This TC Kline set up with Vorshlag plates is nice. The near -3 degrees of camber worked great and currently do not see the need for more. Once ambient temps get higher I might rethink that. Did not take tire temps but tires held up nicely in the 65 degree ambient temps and did not feel over worked as long as they were given a break at reasonable intervals. Overall, the 135i was very fast on the track compared to the large, diverse group of cars out there: Honda's, E36's, E46's, Lotus, 911's, GT2's, DB9's, although anyone who has tracked knows results are heavily driver dependent until you get two like drivers, then the car becomes the factor. Anyone who might have attended the event feel free to chime in, as I would love to hear any impressions you had regarding the car. This is a fantastic set up for the person who wants to still drive their car on the street and be extremely competitive at the track. (The Ht-10's have to come off for the street however or you will sound like a BUS when braking.) The only finishing touch I would add at this point is a set of Toyo R888's for a track dedicated tire. Z1's are surprisingly good but R compounds are just so much better. I thought this photo was kind of funny, it's called the "Lotus Eater": Last edited by MINI135i; 08-06-2009 at 04:23 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
05-02-2009, 09:27 AM | #14 |
Major
77
Rep 1,376
Posts
Drives: 1988 M3, 1990 M3, 1998 M3/4
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
iTrader: (7)
Garage List 1998 BMW M3/4 [10.00]
2011 BMW M3 Sedan [9.28] 1988 BMW M3 [9.40] 1990 BMW M3 [10.00] 2008 BMW 135i - sold [0.00] 2003 BMW M3 - sold [0.00] |
Nice info, man. I appreciate you sharing!!! I'm considering the TCK setup for my 135 as well. I have a similar (older) TCK setup on my '98 M3/4 and it is a blast. I did want to ask you why you didn't choose the TCK camber plates. I know they give extra camber than stock with them set at their full +camber position. I need to give TCK a call, but is he running the vorshlag's on his 1er, too? I guess maybe the TCK plates don't work on the 1er and that is why I haven't seen them on a car yet.
__________________
1988 BMW M3 - Hennarot/Black
1990 BMW M3 racecar - Diamond Schwarz/Black 1998 BMW M3 - Alpine White/Mulberry 2011 BMW 328i racecar - LeMans Blue/Black |
Appreciate
0
|
05-02-2009, 09:49 AM | #15 |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
TC Kline runs his own camber plates on his 135i and they are being run on other 135i's.
I got the Vorshlag because they were lower priced and I felt they were achieving the same purpose. TC sells both camber plates, so no big deal either way. Definitely give TC a call. He'll give you all the latest set up info and the product he sells is fantastic. As I mentioned, I am very happy with the set up. The balance between streetability and track mode is wonderful. There is quite a gap between the two needs, but this system handles that gap well. |
Appreciate
0
|
05-02-2009, 10:04 AM | #16 |
Major
77
Rep 1,376
Posts
Drives: 1988 M3, 1990 M3, 1998 M3/4
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
iTrader: (7)
Garage List 1998 BMW M3/4 [10.00]
2011 BMW M3 Sedan [9.28] 1988 BMW M3 [9.40] 1990 BMW M3 [10.00] 2008 BMW 135i - sold [0.00] 2003 BMW M3 - sold [0.00] |
Very cool. I figured they would work, but I hadn't seen anyone running them. I will give TC a call and talk to him. I keep waiting to pull the trigger due to putting M3 money into this car, but I may just do it.
__________________
1988 BMW M3 - Hennarot/Black
1990 BMW M3 racecar - Diamond Schwarz/Black 1998 BMW M3 - Alpine White/Mulberry 2011 BMW 328i racecar - LeMans Blue/Black |
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2009, 12:40 PM | #18 | |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
Quote:
No rub. With the 40 mm offset and 17x8.5 wheel it would be difficult to get more than a 245 on the car if I were to take an educated guess. A lot of space for more tire in the rear with a higher offset wheel though. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2009, 12:43 PM | #19 |
Second Lieutenant
139
Rep 268
Posts |
Darn Corvette's pack a lot of power in the straights but clearly the twisties were the equalizers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ8x6k-zYJI |
Appreciate
0
|
08-06-2009, 03:04 PM | #20 |
Colonel
57
Rep 2,251
Posts |
sweet video!
__________________
-------------------------------------
BMW 135i/6 Speed/Montego Blue/Formula One Ceramic Tint/JB4 G4/AA Sport Intercooler/19 inch Iconz 880Z(19X8.5 & 19X10)/PSS 225/35 & 265/30/E93 M3 front sway bar/TRW front and rear Control Arms/BMS Drop In Filter/Dinan Exhaust/BlackLines/Upgraded \\\M RSFB |
Appreciate
0
|
08-07-2009, 07:15 PM | #21 |
Second Lieutenant
20
Rep 219
Posts |
i like your wheel choice
i have the same wheels but with R1's 245/40/17 mounted. i would have taken pics with them on but when you only make it through 3 sessions before the engine goes you forget about the photo shoot!@ |
Appreciate
0
|
08-07-2009, 07:34 PM | #22 |
Captain
62
Rep 657
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|