How would you spend $5k?

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by Wrniknbl

Sways, M3 bits including bushings then Spend the rest of your money on driver training. I have had an instructor drive it bone stock and he was keeping up with well.....everything. however the overssteer and float was noticeable. Ive stiffened it all up and now very happy.

Disagree, sways should be the last thing you do to fine tune the ride. Adding stiffer sways may give the effect of less rollover but you may actually be losing traction.

And I think you mean understeer...

I do agree on seat time however.

[Wrniknbl]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Disagree, sways should be the last thing you do to fine tune the ride. Adding stiffer sways may give the effect of less rollover but you may actually be losing traction.

And I think you mean understeer...

I do agree on seat time however.

Yes understeer thanks for the correction (no pun intended), but disagree re sways especially on the front end of the 1er - the rear you could go without sure but if you are changing the subframes you may as well as sooner or later you will have another $5k and that LSD will be the next mod....

[1&done]

You are on the right track! People tend to do pwr mods first.My vote: M-bits (or stiffer bushings), LSD, track wheels/tires, sway, stiffer springs, Motul engine oil, stud conversion, fuzzy dice for the mirror. I would skip the KWs maybe even the toe links unless you need them to get your desired toe…depends how low you the car would be. If you do coilovers get the M3 so you can do the M camber link kit….or just put your $ into Tesla Motors haha

[1&done]

sway and springs should match…get with Harold at HP Auto

Also, do the work yourself and save

[raph82]

I'm new here to 1addict , great info's..reviews inputs here so far!!

[savowood]

I just did a long reply to a similar thread, but I think it was more of a no holds barred version of this one. My first recommendation is always brakes and tires. I think you have that covered pretty well.

For the next $5k, I think in your case, looking at what you've already done, I'd go for a set of JRZ RS dampers and an LSD. The JRZ dampers will allow you to really fine tune the car's behavior. The LSD will let you put the power down coming out of a corner a little sooner.

The LSD is easily worth a second on the typical 1.6-2.2 mile race track. The JRZ dampers would be another 1-2 seconds easy once you get them set up.

Call Brian at JRZ, tell him your experience level, and what you're looking to do. He'll be able to recommend the right springs (personally I like Swift, but a lot of people use Hypercoil), and the right damper for you.

I think the dampers and springs will run you about $3800 or so, then the LSD would be another $1200 for the Wavetrac.

Have you gotten to the point where you're annoyed by the computer nannies and you're able to drive around full tilt boogie without them on and not have a code brown moment? I probably should have asked that first. If not, then you may really want to consider spending the cash on seat time with a professional coach, assuming you're past the point of being a DE novice in the first or second group. I know people all over, so if you need a recommendation, I'd be happy to point someone your way. Expect to spend anywhere from $1k/day up to $2500 for someone whose name you'd recognize. I've coached several people at Circuit of the Americas. One guy we took over 30 seconds off his time. Another guy who was a really well seasoned amateur racer in PCA hired me, and we took 5 seconds off his lap time. We would have had 7 seconds if his alternator didn't start going buggy. The value of a race coach is surprising. Even when you think you have it down, there's time to be had when you have a professional look at what you're doing.

BTW, that PCA guy, I never got into the car or even started looking at data. We were able to pull that much time with video alone. If his car hadn't busted, we would have easily gotten 8 or 9 seconds once we started looking at data.

[maxslug]

Originally Posted by savowood

I just did a long reply to a similar thread, but I think it was more of a no holds barred version of this one. My first recommendation is always brakes and tires. I think you have that covered pretty well.

Sweet, drop the link for it here. Yes, happy w/ the street/track tires and track-only pads. I know there's always more if I want to go to slicks and a BBK, but that's a whole lot of money and only worth it if the rest of the chassis can handle it.

Originally Posted by savowood

For the next $5k, I think in your case, looking at what you've already done, I'd go for a set of JRZ RS dampers and an LSD. The JRZ dampers will allow you to really fine tune the car's behavior. The LSD will let you put the power down coming out of a corner a little sooner.

...

Have you gotten to the point where you're annoyed by the computer nannies and you're able to drive around full tilt boogie without them on and not have a code brown moment?

I think I really want to dial in the suspension then I'll get into the drive train. I do know what a difference having an LSD makes though -- at least on a FWD car it was an amazing difference.

This is the first car I've ever owned with any nanny other than ABS. I did exactly one session with the nanny on to see how it was, and promptly turned it off on the second session. I would recommend this for all drivers regardless of experience level. All you're going to do is get bad habits and cook your brakes if you leave it on. The car has so much understeer there's really no reason to fear it.

So I scored some KW V3's and I'm putting together a list of parts. I will be doing at a minimum a stiffer front sway (M3 26.5mm), the rear bushings, camber plates, and a smattering of m-bits front and back. I'll probably skip on a few of the m-bits for now to save on $$.


-m

[3002 tii]

Side question, any pics of your lem0ns car? My buddies and I are thinking of doing lemons too...

[02rsxpilot]

Not to thread-jack but think this is relevant to all track afficianados, so:

Hey Savowood, or anyone else for that matter, how much help do you think turning off the computer nannies (traction control), either partially or fully, can lend to lap times?

I regret that at my last event, which was at Thunderhill where experimenting is fairly risk-free, I never played with the setting. The nannies were quite active every lap (run flat tires keep them busy) and I don't know how much more grip I might have been able to play with had I trusted my own traction-sensing skills. It's also possible there wasn't more grip to be had and the nannies were just keeping me pointed the right direction.

Now I'm headed to Sonoma this weekend, where the walls are lurking close-by almost all the time, and I'm torn between playing it safe or experimenting. There's really no safe street driving scenario in which I can test the various settings so I'm curious if you or anyone else has experience they'd share on how the car behaves in each mode, on a racetrack (Full On, Off, Really Off).

[maxslug]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

Side question, any pics of your lem0ns car? My buddies and I are thinking of doing lemons too...

Our our car has been melted down and turned into new 135i control arms by now My team fell apart a few years ago and we scrapped the car.

The first one from the first lemons was the saab hiding behind the olds in this pic : http://www.caranddriver.com/features...lemons-feature

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

Not to thread-jack but think this is relevant to all track afficianados, so:

Hey Savowood, or anyone else for that matter, how much help do you think turning off the computer nannies (traction control), either partially or fully, can lend to lap times?

I think this one has been relatively beat to death already.. either here, or in the 3-series forums. My opinion is just take it off and drive cautiously at first -- you won't miss it. But yeah, Sears Point does have a higher pucker factor.

-m

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

Not to thread-jack but think this is relevant to all track afficianados, so:

Hey Savowood, or anyone else for that matter, how much help do you think turning off the computer nannies (traction control), either partially or fully, can lend to lap times?

I regret that at my last event, which was at Thunderhill where experimenting is fairly risk-free, I never played with the setting. The nannies were quite active every lap (run flat tires keep them busy) and I don't know how much more grip I might have been able to play with had I trusted my own traction-sensing skills. It's also possible there wasn't more grip to be had and the nannies were just keeping me pointed the right direction.

Now I'm headed to Sonoma this weekend, where the walls are lurking close-by almost all the time, and I'm torn between playing it safe or experimenting. There's really no safe street driving scenario in which I can test the various settings so I'm curious if you or anyone else has experience they'd share on how the car behaves in each mode, on a racetrack (Full On, Off, Really Off).

My buddy recently wrecked while turning traction off. I'll just say this, if you've been driving with it on for awhile now but think you're ready to switch it off, then you need to REadjust your driving style and inputs. Keep in mind the car has been catching your "mistakes" up to now, that's not to say you wouldn't have corrected it yourself... but you may have gotten used to overdriving the car without realizing the traction control was really compensating. Start the day slower than you would normally, and make sure your inputs are even smoother than before. You basically have to relearn some aspects of driving and be more aware if your senses, the car can let go at any moment so be ready to correct it.

I personally leave it on at new tracks or wet / cold conditions for the first session until conditions improve or I'm more familiar with the course.

[Wrniknbl]

Originally Posted by 3002 Tii

My buddy recently wrecked while turning traction off. I'll just say this, if you've been driving with it on for awhile now but think you're ready to switch it off, then you need to REadjust your driving style and inputs. Keep in mind the car has been catching your "mistakes" up to now, that's not to say you wouldn't have corrected it yourself... but you may have gotten used to overdriving the car without realizing the traction control was really compensating. Start the day slower than you would normally, and make sure your inputs are even smoother than before. You basically have to relearn some aspects of driving and be more aware if your senses, the car can let go at any moment so be ready to correct it.

I personally leave it on at new tracks or wet / cold conditions for the first session until conditions improve or I'm more familiar with the course.

Great advice - If you are remotely worried about coming off or bending the car leave the nannies on....at the end of the day you want to be able to drive it home and no one will remember your lap times - but everyone will remember you dancing with a wall.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

...this is relevant to all track afficianados ... how much help do you think turning off the computer nannies (traction control), either partially or fully, can lend to lap times?

Last summer, I used to get lapped all the time, with the full nannies on, on my 135i. Didn't even bother to even measure my lap times. Then one day, I had the local airport track (Mirabel ICAR) to myself, and experimented with partlal nanny (DTC mode), and no nanny (DSC Off). I learned a lot that day, and spun out twice (once on dry, once on wet pavement). I spun out once, during two other events since then due to over driving the car, and/or doing so on cold tires. With all these "brown" moments, I was lucky enough for not wrecking my car/myself, as the track where I learned is wide, and cement walls relatively far away in the fast corners.

The few beginner mistakes (taking corners too fast on cold tires, accelerating too hard at end of a turn, lifting off throttle during long turns, etc) really helped me adapt a few basic things. First and foremost, I leave at least one level of nanny on, and I monitor when the traction control light comes on, when dealing with:

• a new track
• cold tires
• a new setup or upgrade on your car since your last event
• wet pavement (asphalt or even cement at airport tracks)

Once above is taken care of, I then turn all nannies off (DSC Off or TIMYOYO mode). I tighten my sport seat bolsters around my sides to get full feal of what the car is doing, and raise my awareness + focus a few notches. I find I get much faster laps, and greater control when Im in this "mind set".

Having said that, the 135i and its short wheel base can be a bitch to catch when you get yourself into unplanned over-steering situations. Maybe my tires and/or front aggressive camber (-3.2 in the front, -1.6 in the rear) have something to do with it though ...

Legend:
DSC ON mode: All nannies ON. Default mode when you start the car.
DTC mode : One level of traction control off, allows car to slide and rotate a little more
DSC Off mode: All levels of traction and stability control are off. Also referred to as TIMYOYO mode (That's It Mofo, You're On Your Own) ...

[02rsxpilot]

Thanks dcaron, that's great feedback. I'll probably wait until the last session on Sunday to go partial off and see how it feels. Wrniknbl nails my approach to every track day, that no one cares if you shave half a second off your best lap if you end up in the wall trying to do it.

[maxslug]

Originally Posted by Wrniknbl

Great advice - If you are remotely worried about coming off or bending the car leave the nannies on....at the end of the day you want to be able to drive it home and no one will remember your lap times - but everyone will remember you dancing with a wall.

I totally and completely disagree.

Turn off the nannies and slow down and think more. If you're remotely worried about coming off or bending the car, you're driving way over your head. Don't worry about the guy in the shittier car who's going faster than you, worry about your line.

But anyways

Let's get back to car setup please.

[Wrniknbl]

Originally Posted by maxslug

I totally and completely disagree.

Turn off the nannies and slow down and think more. If you're remotely worried about coming off or bending the car, you're driving way over your head. Don't worry about the guy in the shittier car who's going faster than you, worry about your line.

But anyways

Let's get back to car setup please.

Think we are agreeing here actually - my goal is only to drive clean lines without the nannies flashing. However we are but only human and not on a track driving to our next haircut.

For what it's worth I have driven with many instructors and fortunate enough to spend some seat time with one who has also shared seats with F1 drivers including Vettel and the advice is the same.

Leave nanny on if you can't drive at 10/10 WITHOUT the nannies coming on. Trust me you will know when you are there. I had the above said instructor flog my car...at the limit, without a flash.

.......short back and sides for me thanks.