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      11-19-2013, 02:25 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
...sigh

I DD my car but it will see track time.
Hey, I agree with you that if you track your car, I'm sure it makes a difference. I'm not arguing that.

But trying to say that when you're driving to work and you can feel the difference under normal conditions is pushing hyperbole.
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      11-19-2013, 02:42 PM   #90
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And let's see, fuel weighs around 6 lbs/gallon. The added weight of the sunroof is what, maybe 44 lbs. That's about 7 gallons of fuel. Can I tell the difference between 7 gallons of fuel? Full tank to half? Not really
Keep in mind those 40+ lbs are located at the very top of the car, not low like the gas tank. On an autocross course, I can tell when I have another person in the car with me from the way the car reacts. I don't daily-drive that way, but at the limit, I can tell the difference and I'm not a top-level driver.
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      11-19-2013, 02:42 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I'll once again reiterate that I'm glad I don't live around you.

Since, I'm not as tall as you, it doesn't affect my driving position at all though because of your height it affects yours. Improving comfort is subjective however. I enjoy having the sunroof open or even just the shade open, so it improves my comfort.

And let's see, fuel weighs around 6 lbs/gallon. The added weight of the sunroof is what, maybe 44 lbs. That's about 7 gallons of fuel. Can I tell the difference between 7 gallons of fuel? Full tank to half? Not really. Would it affect my lap times, I'm sure it would. But getting from one stoplight to the next 0.1 sec faster doesn't really worry me when I'm getting to work. I just get up 1 sec earlier and I've accounted for it.
You seem to have the impression I'm blasting through school zones and running down old ladies with walkers.

I find temperature and gas level to be the two most noticeable daily variables in driving. If they aren't something you notice, that's fine, but don't group everyone in with your senses.
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      11-19-2013, 02:44 PM   #92
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Keep in mind those 40+ lbs are located at the very top of the car, not low like the gas tank.
I realize that but since I'm not cornering to the near limits, really it affects in a normal DD scenarios is acceleration and braking. Will it cause more body roll, I'm sure. Is it going to be an appreciable amount of body roll, probably not.
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      11-19-2013, 02:49 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
You seem to have the impression I'm blasting through school zones and running down old ladies with walkers.

I find temperature and gas level to be the two most noticeable daily variables in driving. If they aren't something you notice, that's fine, but don't group everyone in with your senses.
I use old ladies with walkers as a moving slalom course, but that's just me.

I definitely notice temperature variations, especially in this FI car.

And likewise, if the added weight of a sunroof really distracts you that much from your DD experience, fine. But for some of us, the sunroof enhances our DD experience. To me, it offsets the negligible negative aspects on performance for everyday driving. I guess I'm just not a hardcore enough car enthusiast who likes to have a sunroof. Oh well.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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      11-19-2013, 03:36 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
I use old ladies with walkers as a moving slalom course, but that's just me.

I definitely notice temperature variations, especially in this FI car.

And likewise, if the added weight of a sunroof really distracts you that much from your DD experience, fine. But for some of us, the sunroof enhances our DD experience. To me, it offsets the negligible negative aspects on performance for everyday driving. I guess I'm just not a hardcore enough car enthusiast who likes to have a sunroof. Oh well.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
We aren't disagreeing that there are different strokes for different folks.

What happened in this thread is someone asked if it would bother others to not have a sunroof. Various members responded, some saying that they enjoy the top open experience, and others responding how they preferred the increased performance/weight savings/headroom/reliability. Some who have a sunroof took the performance aspects personally and decided the best course of action was to tell those without that sunroof that none of those benefits were perceptible.

At the end of the day, the sunroof is a small part of a greater whole to me. Having driven both versions of the car, I find it absolutely noticeable. That said, my primary driving factors in purchasing a car are feel, fun, and character. Others might not be able to notice, or care even if they can, but that doesn't change that there is a difference.
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      11-19-2013, 03:39 PM   #95
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There is a difference, I'll agree with you on that.
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      11-19-2013, 04:00 PM   #96
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There is a difference, I'll agree with you on that.
Then we are in agreement.

And for the record, having looked at a few pictures of Portsmouth, I wouldn't drive like I do here. Looks like fairly developed suburbia.
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      11-19-2013, 04:05 PM   #97
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Then we are in agreement.
Kinda
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      11-19-2013, 04:14 PM   #98
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Kinda
Shrug. Senses are not equal.
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      11-19-2013, 04:17 PM   #99
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Shrug. Senses are not equal.
Mine have been numbed from 7.5 Gs and accelerating from 0 - 130 knots in 2 sec. My ability to detect an additional inch of body roll just isn't there anymore.
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      11-19-2013, 04:28 PM   #100
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Mine have been numbed from 7.5 Gs and accelerating from 0 - 130 knots in 2 sec. My ability to detect an additional inch of body roll just isn't there anymore.
Perspective it would seem, is everything.

That or innate senses that our choice of profession really has nothing to do with.
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      11-19-2013, 04:42 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Perspective it would seem, is everything.

That or innate senses that our choice of profession really has nothing to do with.
You're right, I couldn't detect an additional inch of body roll before I was a pilot.

Ya got me.
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      11-19-2013, 05:34 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
You're right, I couldn't detect an additional inch of body roll before I was a pilot.

Ya got me.
And here we go back into the personal.
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      11-19-2013, 05:58 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
I find temperature and gas level to be the two most noticeable daily variables in driving. If they aren't something you notice, that's fine, but don't group everyone in with your senses.
Hell, I can feel the difference in how smoothly and cleanly the dog gears engage on my Civic as a function of temperature. Mind you, I haven't figured out what that relationship is except that it's nearly perfect in 70-80 degree weather and it's all the same once the box is hot. Drive any car long enough and you will notice changes in every aspect of the car, if you're an attentive person. Even when you're nowhere near the limit.

But back to the original topic: what's a sunroof?
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      11-19-2013, 06:10 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Texan Engineer View Post
Hell, I can feel the difference in how smoothly and cleanly the dog gears engage on my Civic as a function of temperature. Mind you, I haven't figured out what that relationship is except that it's nearly perfect in 70-80 degree weather and it's all the same once the box is hot. Drive any car long enough and you will notice changes in every aspect of the car, if you're an attentive person. Even when you're nowhere near the limit.

But back to the original topic: what's a sunroof?
Man after my own heart.
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      11-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
And here we go back into the personal.
Well aren't you the clever one then.

You win Micheal Schumacher, you win. One day my butt dyno/inclinometer will be as sensitive as yours.
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