Amazing comparison of two cars

[vertebra]

Kia is trying to do exactly what the OP did... get more people to cross shop it's brand. This is their answer to the 7 series...
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...00_first_test/

[stormzusmc]

Originally Posted by BavarianN54

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. Enjoy the Kia.

QFT

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by ptack

Take the badge off the 320i and it compares poorly to a lot of cars that cost less, but that shouldn't be a surprise. It's meant to be the entry level BMW aimed at people who aspire to own a BMW, but are not really interested in driving dynamics or numbers. They just want a shiney, comfortable car with a roundel on it.

Which is tragic considering that the E30 318i or E36 318ti were pretty brilliant cars.

[Allencic]

The question is asked, "Who buys new cars?" Apparently enough people do or else you wouldn't be able to buy used ones.

Maybe anyone who buys new is just a sucker? Or perhaps they don't want to buy someone else's problems in a vehicle.

When I've sold cars that I've purchased new it was usually because they weren't satisfactory (67 Mustang, 82 Toyota Supra) or something was going wrong with it that would cost a ton to fix. I've never sold a car that I knew was having problems to a private party but I have traded them in on a new car. On at least two occasions cars that I traded in I later saw on the used car lot and both had the speedometer rolled back many thousands of miles. Are you sure that doesn't happen to cars today even though do so is against the law?

[shah269]

I have a friend who works for volvo usa...most cars now are leased....so very short term very bland stuff in our future.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Allencic

The question is asked, "Who buys new cars?" Apparently enough people do or else you wouldn't be able to buy used ones.

BMW is well over a 60% lease rate at this point if you wanted that question answered.

[ejm3]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Which is tragic considering that the E30 318i or E36 318ti were pretty brilliant cars.

I call BS on this.
Back in the day my GF at the time was looking at cars and wanted one of these.
She drove it (so did I) and we both throught it was a vile little car.
She bought an Integra GSR manual and never looked back.

Smoked those 318's in ever respect; speed, handling, reliability and resale value. No is didin't have a BMW badge but a better car than those 318's in every respect.

And leasing is popular for one simple reason:
You lease a much better [more expensive] car than you can afford to actually afford to purchase.

[MightyMouseTech]

I would never buy a used car for my primary transportation. I know that the previous owner would not take care of it the way I would. The maintenance in those first couple of years is critical to the life of the car years down the road. Most leased vehicles only see the absolute bare minimum of service. I see many that don't even get that.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by ejm3

I call BS on this.
Back in the day my GF at the time was looking at cars and wanted one of these.
She drove it (so did I) and we both throught it was a vile little car.
She bought an Integra GSR manual and never looked back.

Smoked those 318's in ever respect; speed, handling, reliability and resale value. No is didin't have a BMW badge but a better car than those 318's in every respect.

And leasing is popular for one simple reason:
You lease a much better [more expensive] car than you can afford to actually afford to purchase.

Proper gen Integras are wonderful cars(perhaps the best ever FWD car?), no denying that, but to say the 318 is "vile" is comical at best. It's RWD with essentially a square wheelbase and the factory option of a LSD. It's pretty hard not to have fun in it.

And while completely unrelated to the driving, you also don't get one of the worst car communities to exist, the FWD Japanese scene.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I would never buy a used car for my primary transportation. I know that the previous owner would not take care of it the way I would. The maintenance in those first couple of years is critical to the life of the car years down the road. Most leased vehicles only see the absolute bare minimum of service. I see many that don't even get that.

Yeah, I'd agree... My image of a leaser is someone who beats the hell out of the car since they don't own it.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Proper gen Integras are wonderful cars(perhaps the best ever FWD car?), no denying that, but to say the 318 is "vile" is comical at best. It's RWD with essentially a square wheelbase and the factory option of a LSD. It's pretty hard not to have fun in it.

And while completely unrelated to the driving, you also don't get one of the worst car communities to exist, the FWD Japanese scene.

When I ran a company in England we used to lease 318's as one of the company car choices for our first level managers & salesmen. They all seemed to like then & the BMW was picked about 4-1 over other cars available on the sheet.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

When I ran a company in England we used to lease 318's as one of the company car choices for our first level managers & salesmen. They all seemed to like then & the BMW was picked about 4-1 over other cars available on the sheet.

It's RWD with fantastic steering feel, low weight, and an engine you can rev the pants off. What's missing?

Also sounds pretty good, especially for a 4.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Do an accountants view of the world & some relatively inexpensive cars can give you pretty much anything the expensive cars can except the image of success & in some cases raw performance. Computers & other electronic being so cheap & robots building the cars has been a great leveler in what is available at the bottom end of the price range.

Despite this for most of us a car is an emotional purchase which is why we will spend way more for a car than an analytical type will.

[Allencic]

Mighty Mouse Tech,

I'd bet that a very high percentage of CPO cars are leases that have been turned in. When you turn in a leased car the examination is strickly cosmetic. They turn the engine on an check to see if radio, wipers, etc. work but have no way to check out well or poorly it was driven.

Do you really think a dealer with a good looking car is going to tell you as a possilbe purchaser, "This car looks great but the guy who leased it just beat the heck out of the engine and trans."

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Allencic

Mighty Mouse Tech,

I'd bet that a very high percentage of CPO cars are leases that have been turned in. When you turn in a leased car the examination is strickly cosmetic. They turn the engine on an check to see if radio, wipers, etc. work but have no way to check out well or poorly it was driven.

Do you really think a dealer with a good looking car is going to tell you as a possilbe purchaser, "This car looks great but the guy who leased it just beat the heck out of the engine and trans."

I work at a dealer, I know exactly what goes on with CPO vehicles.

I have seen some shit...........

[Zombie1]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

Yeah, I'd agree... My image of a leaser is someone who beats the hell out of the car since they don't own it.

ive leased cars before, but ive always loved and cared for my cars even the ones i didnt own. i guess its just the enthusiast in me.

[CAVU]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I work at a dealer, I know exactly what goes on with CPO vehicles.

I have seen some shit...........

For example, the CPO'd 135is that was previously a press fleet vehicle?

[Allencic]

Zombie 1,

I feel the same way about all cars that I've owned or leased. I've never understood how such an expensive purchase (or lease) can be so badly treated by so many (I've found that academics who are trying to be politically correct have the greatest disdain for cars and often take great pride in not knowing anything about cars and beat the crap out of them).

I'm turning in my leased 2011 crimson red 128i convertible on Friday. Whoever gets it next will think they have a brand new car.

Caring for cars, is to me, half the fun of owning them.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by Zombie1

ive leased cars before, but ive always loved and cared for my cars even the ones i didnt own. i guess its just the enthusiast in me.

Props to you... You're definitely the exception and not the rule.

[Zombie1]

Originally Posted by Allencic

Zombie 1,

I feel the same way about all cars that I've owned or leased. I've never understood how such an expensive purchase (or lease) can be so badly treated by so many (I've found that academics who are trying to be politically correct have the greatest disdain for cars and often take great pride in not knowing anything about cars and beat the crap out of them).

I'm turning in my leased 2011 crimson red 128i convertible on Friday. Whoever gets it next will think they have a brand new car.

Caring for cars, is to me, half the fun of owning them.

100% agreed

[Allencic]

You could probably make a good living by gathering up clapped and rusted out old Volvos and Saabs which spew out vast amounts of uncontrolled pollution to sell to professors I've worked with so they could drive them to the next Global Warming rally to demonize carbon dioxide and pledge to save the planet. Of course they'll also hate petroleum while wearing all Patagonia clothing made of synthetic fabrics made of - wait for it - petroleum derived plastics.

[fboutlaw]

There was a time that I looked at things from a raw spec and feature list perspective as well. Along those lines, you have a very clear choice to make and the big delta you're seeing is the $$. That's a very reasonable approach and an easy way to rationalize a decision.

Like I said, I did the same thing until I started for the company I work at now, which changed my perception about purchasing completely.

It's incredibly easy to match a competitor feature for feature. You just look at the spec sheet, go off to an OEM, and place an order for their cheapest component that matches the feature. Then design that into your vehicle. Keep doing that over and over until you hit feature parity. Unfortunately, you end up with a lot of disjointed components, which may have some unwanted interactions with other parts (things rattle loose, prematurely wear, generally have long term quality issues). This is how I think of a lot of companies which emphasize features.

There are a few companies out there that emphasize the final product. Everything that goes in must be meaningful. Must be designed. Must be custom manufactured. Must be tested. And in the car world, this generally means is an absolute pain in the ass to work on as every bolt and nut are specified to match it's particular application. The extra design, tooling, materials, testing, and QA is where you get your price delta, even though the specs and feature lists may match a competitor.

So it goes back to what's important to you when you make any buying decision. A lot of times it's absolutely the bottom line. Sometimes it's a rational choice between two columns in a spec table. Then there are those times when you want the purchase to be exciting. You want to love what you're buying. Then may re-rank your priorities.

But yeah, $21k is a nice chunk of change. Enjoy the Kia.