Warranty is Gone

[ronnyek]

yeah I concur.. probably not tripped code in ecu... again, no cats = bad 02 readings.

Lesson to be learned here.. we shouldnt be attempting to put anything past the dealers, if you legitimately blow your engine or something you should own up to it, but inthis particular case, I dont think anything is REALLY wrong cept you dont have the o2 sims. Dont give them any ammo to even fight with.

[fmxomar]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

i hear you, but that's just plain retarded! why on earth would one buy a set of $600 DP's, just to pay $400 to put them on/off everytime you want to go in for service or for some issue you may have with the car?

If you buy DP's, exhaust, suspension, and any other mods that require hours of installation or a shop to do it, you need to just decide whether you can live with it or live without the warranty on those parts if an issue arrives.

a tune, an intake, and other smaller and quick mods are obviously the ones that can be put on and off.

well you buy downpipes for the benefits that they give, that is why its best to learn to install/ uninstall these kinds of mods yourself in case you do need to take it off to go to the dealer

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by fmxomar

well you buy downpipes for the benefits that they give, that is why its best to learn to install/ uninstall these kinds of mods yourself in case you do need to take it off to go to the dealer

agreed, and exactly what I was referring to. If anyone buys these mods, just to pay $400 to put them on/off everytime, or do not want to spend hours and hours to change parts out, then one makes the decision whether you can live with it or not, warranty wise.

I'm with you, I put in mods that I do myself, and feel comfortable taking them off in case I need to take the car to the dealer.

[IN54NE]

Doesn't the O2 sensor wires just prevent a CEL from coming on? I thought it still threw a code, you just couldn't see it on the dash... Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[lannypoffo]

subscribed

[ML]

The O2 sim creates a difference in the reading between the upper and lower O2 sensors, which results the the computer believing that the cats are doing their job. The O2 sim is just a set of resistors.

[J-Sud]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Since my car was new, I've had an occasional Reduced Power and CEL that would come on. It wouldn't happen very often, but I finally figured out that it occured only on long trips when the car had been running more than an hour at highway speeds, and the fuel was down to about half a tank.

Now, before I figured that out, I went several months without making a long trip, so I had no Reduced Power warnings, and no CELs. During that time I installed catless DPs, and O2 simulator, and a SSTT. On my next road trip the issue came back, and over the course of the next couple of trips I figured out exactly what was triggering it. I took the SSTT off just to make sure it wasn't the cause, and the same thing still happened.

I've been extremely busy with work, and hadn't had a chance to take the car in. I hit the first oil service, and made an appointment along with a list of issue I had with the car.

A couple of days later I got a call from the Service Advisor saying BMW was voiding my warranty and wouldn't cover anything on the list. After a few heated conversations they backed off that, but still refused to investigate the major issue I was having.

The combination of the SSTT and catless DPs was enough to trigger the Anti-Tampering code on the newer ECUs, so I'm pretty much screwed.

Here's the exact write up:

Aftermarket control unit installed in the DME wiring harness Ran codes and found 29CE Comustion misfire cylinder 2 and 2D25 Manipulation Prevention, Max Mass Air. The last code I have not seen so I called my FSE and he advised me to remove the DME cover and look for any aftermarket devices installed in the DME box. Found a box wired into the DME harness and taped around connections. Called him back with findings and he told me this is no longer a warranty issue. Also found catalytic converters were removed. No repairs made at this time.


Now, I had seriously considered fighting this, but I'm afraid I'd be wasting my time, and the whole thing has started to prevent me from enjoying my car. I've decided to just stop worrying about the damn warranty, and do what I want to the car. After Christmas I'm just going to go ahead and go all out with a full tune, intercooler, and whatever else looks good to me. I've be reluctant to do any of that because of the warranty, but now that it's gone, I have no reason not to.

(This is my attempt to make lemonaid out of lemons )

If you're running an SSTT with catless pipes, consider yourself warned.

did you leave the o2 sims in the ECU compartment when u took it in?...if so thats why...haha....you showed the proof of tampering with the ECU

[Mad Dragon]

SI B 12 20 08
Engine Electrical Systems June 2008
Technical Service

SUBJECT
N54 - Various Complaints Caused by Aftermarket "Tuning Kits"

MODEL
E90, E92, E93 with N54 engine E60, E61 with N54 engine E82, E88 with N54 engine E71 with N54 engine

SITUATION I
The customer may complain about an excessive muffler noise; "backfiring" into the intake manifold; high (increased) engine oil/fuel consumption; illumination of the "Service Engine Soon Light"; or an excessive battery draw. Fault code "2D18-Manipulation protection, air mass" may be stored in the DME, indicating an implausible airflow. To prevent possible engine mechanical damage due to increased turbocharging pressure, the DME will limit the maximum available torque to the nominal torque value of 400Nm.

SITUATION II
The customer may complain that the vehicle couldn't pass the state emissions inspection, where scanning of the OBD readiness codes is part of the inspection procedure. The GT1/DIS or aftermarket testing equipment indicates that the EVAP system is a "not supported" function of the vehicle's OBD control system. Also, various complaints regarding the cruise control being inactive; the battery draw message displayed in the Control Display; or incorrect muffler flap operation may be encountered.

CAUSE I
An aftermarket engine performance tuning kit, "turbo-tuner control module" (piggyback box), is (or was) installed in the vehicle. Depending on the manufacturer, these modules are plugged directly into the TMAP (Temperature / Manifold Ambient Pressure) sensor or into the DME harness in the E-box. The modified (erroneous) air intake pressure signal supplied to the DME causes an increased turbo boost. In some cases, these modifications also include alteration to the waste-gate vacuum plumbing, which may cause various vacuum supply problems.

CAUSE II
The vehicle's DME was reprogrammed with an aftermarket "N54 performance software calibration". As a result, various DME OBD II-relevant diagnostic functions are inoperative, or their functionalities are limited. Examples include diagnostic of the purge system; map-cooling thermostat; engine temperature sensor; oxygen sensors; and the functionality of the evaporation system and exhaust flaps.

INFORMATION
With the integration level of E89X-08-03-530 or higher (introduced with Progman V29.02.00), any alteration to the TMAP sensor signal ("piggyback box") is detected by setting the DME fault code 2D18 ("Manipulation protection, air mass signal plausibility"). In such a case, the maximum engine torque cannot exceed 400Nm. Aftermarket N54 DME software modifications usually do not change either programmed or basic DME part numbers, so it is not possible to identify this alteration via DIS/GT1 DME identification pages. In certain cases, the MSD80 DME software modifications can be detected by executing DIS/GT1 test module "S1214 NG6OBDII/Read codes" (reading of the OBD readiness codes). If the readiness code for the "Fuel Tank Ventilation" shows "XXX" (instead of "yes" or "no"), this is an indication that evaporation system function is not supported by the DME and the original BMW software was altered. (In this situation, when using the aftermarket scanning tool for checking readiness monitors, the Evaporation System status would be displayed as "Not Supported".) In such a case, the vehicle is not compliant with the federal (EPA) and state (CARB) emissions anti-tampering laws.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Any repair or diagnostic cost incurred by a component and/or system failure as a result of an "N54 aftermarket engine tuning kit" installation is not covered by the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Moreover, modification of the vehicle or installation of any non-approved performance accessories or components attached to the vehicle, which alters the original engineering and/or operating specifications, or which results in damage to the other original components, voids the warranty coverage on the affected original Drivetrain and Emission Control components. In general terms, the BMW warranty on Drivetrain and Emission Control components is void due to a modification where the modification, alteration or installation of a non-approved aftermarket part was responsible for the failure. Please make sure to inform BMW customers considering the purchase of an aftermarket "N54 Engine Tuning" kit of the above legal, technical and warranty implications.

[Addict...Nah Im A Junkie!]

Thanks Mad dragon. Thats probably a good piece of info for everyone to have!!!!

[J-Sud]

Originally Posted by Mad Dragon

SI B 12 20 08
Engine Electrical Systems June 2008
Technical Service

SUBJECT
N54 - Various Complaints Caused by Aftermarket "Tuning Kits"

MODEL
E90, E92, E93 with N54 engine E60, E61 with N54 engine E82, E88 with N54 engine E71 with N54 engine

SITUATION I
The customer may complain about an excessive muffler noise; "backfiring" into the intake manifold; high (increased) engine oil/fuel consumption; illumination of the "Service Engine Soon Light"; or an excessive battery draw. Fault code "2D18-Manipulation protection, air mass" may be stored in the DME, indicating an implausible airflow. To prevent possible engine mechanical damage due to increased turbocharging pressure, the DME will limit the maximum available torque to the nominal torque value of 400Nm.

SITUATION II
The customer may complain that the vehicle couldn't pass the state emissions inspection, where scanning of the OBD readiness codes is part of the inspection procedure. The GT1/DIS or aftermarket testing equipment indicates that the EVAP system is a "not supported" function of the vehicle's OBD control system. Also, various complaints regarding the cruise control being inactive; the battery draw message displayed in the Control Display; or incorrect muffler flap operation may be encountered.

CAUSE I
An aftermarket engine performance tuning kit, "turbo-tuner control module" (piggyback box), is (or was) installed in the vehicle. Depending on the manufacturer, these modules are plugged directly into the TMAP (Temperature / Manifold Ambient Pressure) sensor or into the DME harness in the E-box. The modified (erroneous) air intake pressure signal supplied to the DME causes an increased turbo boost. In some cases, these modifications also include alteration to the waste-gate vacuum plumbing, which may cause various vacuum supply problems.

CAUSE II
The vehicle's DME was reprogrammed with an aftermarket "N54 performance software calibration". As a result, various DME OBD II-relevant diagnostic functions are inoperative, or their functionalities are limited. Examples include diagnostic of the purge system; map-cooling thermostat; engine temperature sensor; oxygen sensors; and the functionality of the evaporation system and exhaust flaps.

INFORMATION
With the integration level of E89X-08-03-530 or higher (introduced with Progman V29.02.00), any alteration to the TMAP sensor signal ("piggyback box") is detected by setting the DME fault code 2D18 ("Manipulation protection, air mass signal plausibility"). In such a case, the maximum engine torque cannot exceed 400Nm. Aftermarket N54 DME software modifications usually do not change either programmed or basic DME part numbers, so it is not possible to identify this alteration via DIS/GT1 DME identification pages. In certain cases, the MSD80 DME software modifications can be detected by executing DIS/GT1 test module "S1214 NG6OBDII/Read codes" (reading of the OBD readiness codes). If the readiness code for the "Fuel Tank Ventilation" shows "XXX" (instead of "yes" or "no"), this is an indication that evaporation system function is not supported by the DME and the original BMW software was altered. (In this situation, when using the aftermarket scanning tool for checking readiness monitors, the Evaporation System status would be displayed as "Not Supported".) In such a case, the vehicle is not compliant with the federal (EPA) and state (CARB) emissions anti-tampering laws.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Any repair or diagnostic cost incurred by a component and/or system failure as a result of an "N54 aftermarket engine tuning kit" installation is not covered by the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Moreover, modification of the vehicle or installation of any non-approved performance accessories or components attached to the vehicle, which alters the original engineering and/or operating specifications, or which results in damage to the other original components, voids the warranty coverage on the affected original Drivetrain and Emission Control components. In general terms, the BMW warranty on Drivetrain and Emission Control components is void due to a modification where the modification, alteration or installation of a non-approved aftermarket part was responsible for the failure. Please make sure to inform BMW customers considering the purchase of an aftermarket "N54 Engine Tuning" kit of the above legal, technical and warranty implications.

so it seems the code actually shows up as a "service engine soon" light....because the stock car can limp mode.

[BlackjackMulligan]

I guess the next question is, if you remove the SSTT before visiting the dealer, can you wipe the code with an OBD II tool?

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by J-Sud

did you leave the o2 sims in the ECU compartment when u took it in?...if so thats why...haha....you showed the proof of tampering with the ECU

So you think it would have been a better idea to pull them out and have a constant CEL because of the catless downpipes?

[Alext]

I always was suspicious of the claims made about the SSTT not being able to be detected...it may not be able to be detected per se, but it appears it can actually set off a fault code.

[Chewyjr15]

what about the jb?

[rcracer_tx]

Unless the parts are the reason for a failure, they cannot void the warranty for repair.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by rcracer_tx

Unless the parts are the reason for a failure, they cannot void the warranty for repair.

They just did. Their position is that since I've tampered with the ECU, they're not going to diagnose it any further. :iono:

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

I don't see how the sstt could trip the detection codes. I ran the jb2 which runs around the same boost sometimes even more, with 0 issues from the dealer. I think they saw your downpipes, went looking into your ecu found the sim. Probably don't even know what it is, probably thinks it a piggyback. And said it tripped the code. All they needed to find was something in the ecu to cofirm what they was thinking. Because alot of people are running the sstt and have been to the dealer with no problem. Even eurobaun claims its undetectable so I would contact them and let them know. The sstt doesn't boost the car higher than what the factory can handle, because if you are in higher altitude the car ecu turns up the boost to compensate for it.

They didn't even know what the simulators were when they called me the first time, or that I didn't have cats on the car. The tech pulled the codes, called BMW, and they told him to start digging. That's when they found the O2 sims.

It's possible that my car has set these codes because I've driven it at altitude (I've had it clost to 5500' ABSL) with the SSTT installed. Maybe that's enough to push it beyond the factory limits. Just a theory. :iono:

[rcracer_tx]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

They just did. They're position is that since I've tampered with the ECU, they're not going to diagnose it any further. :iono:

Call the BBB, they can help you or tell you who can. the Magnum Moss act is the legal act that prevents this BS.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by rcracer_tx

Call the BBB, they can help you or tell you who can. the Magnum Moss act is the legal act that prevents this BS.

I know all about MMA, but do you really think I'm going to win a case where I've alted the emissions systems on the car to increase performance, and now have a misfire code set for cylinder two? BMW has a very easy out on this, and that is that the aftermarket products have altered the operating parameters beyond what they designed for. MM was intended to allow consumers to use aftermarket oil filters and such things, not to modify the car for additional performance.

It's a no-win situation IMO.

[J-Sud]

you have to take it to a shop with a GT1 reader for BMW codes to clear it...but it is possible....kinda late now tho....but i would have taken the DPs off the car and the sims out.

[akak1997]

it's gonna be a tough one for you. Either SSTT or the O2 sim might screwed up your air/fuel ratio hence the misfire. O2 sensor failing is one reason for misfires.

There are bunch of other reasons for the misfire that's not caused by the SSTT and/or O2 sim, but I don't know how you could identify that w/o taking out the DP and O2sims and reseting the computer.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by akak1997

it's gonna be a tough one for you. Either SSTT or the O2 sim might screwed up your air/fuel ratio hence the misfire. O2 sensor failing is one reason for misfires.

There are bunch of other reasons for the misfire that's not caused by the SSTT and/or O2 sim, but I don't know how you could identify that w/o taking out the DP and O2sims and reseting the computer.

Oh I know what's causing the misfire. It's a faulty fuel pump. I've had that problem since before any of the mods were installed. The problem shows up on long trips when I'm around half a tank of fuel, and filling the tank up fixes it every time. I'm betting it's the low pressure fuel pump that's in the tank. There was another member who had that failure as well, I'm just not going to be able to have it replaced under warranty.