$589 Dealer Fee?

[amdmaxx]

Great link, thanks!

Originally Posted by otterdoc

I paid $190 as a doc prep fee on my 135i exactly 30 days ago.

Edmunds.com has this to say:

Doc fees: In states where doc fees are not regulated by the government a dealership will often sell a car at a very attractive price but then hit the buyer with a $399 doc fee when the contract is drawn up. If you refer to our chart, and see that doc fees are not capped in your state, you should find out early on in the buying process what the dealership charges. If it is high — anything over $100 — you will need to negotiate more aggressively to offset this price.

There is a chart on this page:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...4/article.html

I'm not sure how accurate it is. I paid more than the chart says I should have, but I'm not about to argue about $29. My dealer threw in a substantial gift certificate about a week after the deal was done that more than made up for that. Way more.

[Angry3]

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

The MACO and Training fees are legit......that $600 doc fee sounds fishy

+1, these are legitimate fees the dealer pays that become part of the dealer invoice. They're typically the reason the dealer's cost sheet varies from the pricing on the confidential price list. If you're dealing up from invoice get disclosure up front as the MACO fee can vary between regions.

Originally Posted by bluejaypanther

so they can just spring this on you after you made your order, dropped a deposit, and signed the paperwork?

Depends on what you signed, my experience on here is that many folks who make an order don't pay a lot of attention to the order documents. There isn't much paperwork that's done on an order, usually just a one page form listing the car, options, and purchase price, and possibly a few other details. Often these forms have some legal boilerplate in them that pretty much insulates the dealer from being sued if the buyer ends up unhappy at some point in the process.

Also, the typical order docs are signed by you and not the dealer, which means your "deal" can't be legally enforced as a contract by the buyer (not that it would be worth it for either you or the dealer to try to enforce it anyway).

If it's a true "buyer's order," it should itemize the price of the car and each of the taxes and fees to be paid on delivery. Every dealership uses this type of form as the purchase contract upon sale, and I would insist on it if I were special ordering a car.

Originally Posted by Evice

I recently got my 128. and there are no fees paid.

That's not typical, so you likely either missed them or were able to negotiate them away. If not, you might give us the name of your dealer, since a dealer that doesn't charge any fees is an extreme rarity and some folks here might want to give them some business.

The doc fee discussion comes up all the time on car boards, and always degenerates into an orgy of boiling blood, self-righteousness, and suspect information. There's no question that doing all of the paperwork and dealing with the DMV can be time and labor intensive and that the dealer's efforts there have value, and that they also use this fee as a profit center. IMHO debating whether paying this fee is appropriate, how much of a fee is reasonable, and the other ethics and merits of this issue is like pissing into the wind (very messy and entirely pointless.)

When you boil the issue down:

1. A document fee is almost universally charged by dealers to buyers during the sale of a new or used car, and anyone that thinks they're going to by a new BMW without the dealer attempting to charge a doc fee of some amount is likely smoking the good stuff. As mentioned, some states cap the doc fee at a certain amount, so if you can easily travel to a dealer in a capped-fee state you may be able to save some money or draw some additional negotiating leverage from your willingness and ability to do so.

2. You can easily avoid all of the anger and surprise people talk about by verifying the type and amount of all fees early on during negotiation. When you're comparing deals, you should be comparing apples to apples, that is, total out the door price and cost of financing if applicable. If you're dealing out of state make sure the dealer applies the correct tax rate so there isn't any confusion later. You won't be paying state fees (registration, etc.) buying out of state since you'll be doing all of that yourself in most cases, so account for those if you're working with dealers both in and out of state.

2. Most dealers use pre-printed purchase contracts, some of them have the doc fee amount written in. The doc fee is typically taxable just like the car, so in the end the dealer can charge me a $10,000 doc fee if it wants as long as that fee is accounted for in the total cost of the car. The only thing that matters in the end is whether you could save money by buying from a different dealer and whether it makes sense to do so (unless you want to wave your bill of sale around and brag about how you got over on the dealer by refusing to pay a doc fee).

3. If the dealer tries to slip in any fees that were not disclosed before you came in to take delivery, stand up and leave. They will disappear from your purchase contract like magic

It really is that simple. Get multiple quotes, do your negotiation outside of the dealer, compare the total cost of the car (including the financing or lease terms), insist on full disclosure, and be prepared to walk away from dealers that don't deal honestly with you and you'll have a much better buying experience.

[Angry3]

Originally Posted by otterdoc

I paid $190 as a doc prep fee on my 135i exactly 30 days ago.

Edmunds.com has this to say:

Doc fees: In states where doc fees are not regulated by the government a dealership will often sell a car at a very attractive price but then hit the buyer with a $399 doc fee when the contract is drawn up. If you refer to our chart, and see that doc fees are not capped in your state, you should find out early on in the buying process what the dealership charges. If it is high — anything over $100 — you will need to negotiate more aggressively to offset this price.

There is a chart on this page:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...4/article.html

I'm not sure how accurate it is. I paid more than the chart says I should have, but I'm not about to argue about $29. My dealer threw in a substantial gift certificate about a week after the deal was done that more than made up for that. Way more.

+1, the chart is great but there are a number of mistakes in it. States are always passing and changing laws so get confirmation about your state law before you buy.

[JimD]

I got pricing from 5 dealers. I separated their prices into the vehicle, what I called paperwork fee, and the taxes & tag (paid to the state). The paperwork fees ranged from $284 to $602. The 602 was an out of state dealer that would have charged less if I had done part of the work. I was OK with that part but they were high on the vehicle. Other than the one at 602, the range was $284 to $339.

Nothing that is extra after an "out the door" price is set is reasonable. If this had happened to me, I would have reviewed my prices and probably gone to the next guy on the list. In negotiations, it pays big time to have a backup plan.

Jim

[m_thompson]

When I ordered our 128i the paperwork fee was $50. By the time I paid for it the fee had increased to $200. Sounds low compared to what others are reporting.