Just got a 135i! Came from a Scion FR-S

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Jeff01234567

I feel like all the reactions to the twins are either "Love it" or "Hate it".

I had a more positive experience with the car; I enjoyed the handling and planted feel of the car. However, given your long resume of past and current cars I could see how a BRZ type of car would rub you the wrong way.

It's nice not having to worry about power.

Agreed. I test drove one a BRZ a few months back, and found it to be one of the most fun cars I've driven, albeit the power deficiency. Everything from the slick short shifter, short clutch travel, excellent steering, and nice engine rumble spelled pure "driver's car" to me. They put all the development budget for this car on the drivetrain, and not on fit and finish, materials, etc. I almost bought one, but in the end I couldn't overcome the lack of space (backseat, trunk, etc).

Speaking of which, your 135i looks very familiar. I hope you don't mind me asking, but did you get this from Shift? It was only listed for sale for around a week or so, and for a very nice price.

In any case, congrats!

[Jeff01234567]

Originally Posted by Cal

Agreed. I test drove one a BRZ a few months back, and found it to be one of the most fun cars I've driven, albeit the power deficiency. Everything from the slick short shifter, short clutch travel, excellent steering, and nice engine rumble spelled pure "driver's car" to me. They put all the development budget for this car on the drivetrain, and not on fit and finish, materials, etc. I almost bought one, but in the end I couldn't overcome the lack of space (backseat, trunk, etc).

Speaking of which, your 135i looks very familiar. I hope you don't mind me asking, but did you get this from Shift? It was only listed for sale for around a week or so, and for a very nice price.

In any case, congrats!

Yes I did actually get this from Shift! I didn't realize it was only on sale for about a week. I just saw the car on their website one day and decided to take a look at it.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Cal

Agreed. I test drove one a BRZ a few months back, and found it to be one of the most fun cars I've driven, albeit the power deficiency. Everything from the slick short shifter, short clutch travel, excellent steering, and nice engine rumble spelled pure "driver's car" to me. They put all the development budget for this car on the drivetrain, and not on fit and finish, materials, etc. I almost bought one, but in the end I couldn't overcome the lack of space (backseat, trunk, etc).

I found the seating position, and entry/exit to be the most unpleasant of any car I have ever owned (and I'm really old, so that's lots of cars). I could see putting up with that if the car had at least adequate power for a "sports car," but it does not.

Subaru and Toyota showed that you can get a lot of "drivers' car stuff" into a cheap car, but the downside is that it is very much a cheap car. People criticize the Subaru STi, which I own, as being a spartan econobox (e.g. Impreza) modified with a powerful engine. There is some truth to that, however the interior of the 2015/2016 STi is near-luxury quality in reality. My car has leather all around, a high end HK sound system, comfortable seats, a much better manual transmission than the BRZ/FRS, Homelink, and many other amenities. The BRZ looks and feels inside like the cheapest car you have ever rented, in fact, cheaper than any economy car I've ever rented.

Some people can obviously live with that; I could not.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Jeff01234567

Yes I did actually get this from Shift! I didn't realize it was only on sale for about a week. I just saw the car on their website one day and decided to take a look at it.

Yes, it was only there for about 1 week or so. They have had some listed for a while, but those are the mostly the auto/DCT ones. In any case, congrats again.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by champignon

I found the seating position, and entry/exit to be the most unpleasant of any car I have ever owned (and I'm really old, so that's lots of cars). I could see putting up with that if the car had at least adequate power for a "sports car," but it does not.

Subaru and Toyota showed that you can get a lot of "drivers' car stuff" into a cheap car, but the downside is that it is very much a cheap car. People criticize the Subaru STi, which I own, as being a spartan econobox (e.g. Impreza) modified with a powerful engine. There is some truth to that, however the interior of the 2015/2016 STi is near-luxury quality in reality. My car has leather all around, a high end HK sound system, comfortable seats, a much better manual transmission than the BRZ/FRS, Homelink, and many other amenities. The BRZ looks and feels inside like the cheapest car you have ever rented, in fact, cheaper than any economy car I've ever rented.

Some people can obviously live with that; I could not.

Yes, I did notice the extremely low seating position of the BRZ, and the less than comfortable entry/exit. But that's how most typical "sports cars" are. Since I only test drove it, I didn't really see this as a negative. In fact, I thought it was nice to be able to sit as close to the floor as possible (as opposed to a chair-like sitting position of most cars.) However, I can see how long-term ownership of a car like this can get old and tiring.

In regards to the STI, the luxury and quality of materials of this car have come a long ways. Despite all the luxury and quality amenities it has, it is still one of the most purists cars money can buy this side of $50k (or any price for that matter). Hydraulic steering, manual only, etc. Also, owners of these cars are some of the biggest car enthusiasts around. Literally every single one will wave at you, talk to you about your car if given the chance, etc. Resale value is amazing. Even with thousands of these being built, they hold their value as well as any mass-produced car. I can only fathom what these cars would sell for in the used-car market if only several hundred were ever produced (read 1M).

Back on topic...I guess the OP said it well. The FRS/BRZ is really a "you either love it or you hate it" type of car. I'm sure you were in the "love it" camp when you first bought it, but quickly jumped ship to the other side. Just like you, I'm in the love it side after just a test drive, but could easily see myself changing sides after a long-term ownership (or a few loses to a Camry/Accord in a straightline contest. ;-) ) After getting out of the BRZ and into a 135i, it literally "felt" like going from a sports car into a sedan, straightline speed aside.

[Jeff01234567]

Originally Posted by Cal

Yes, I did notice the extremely low seating position of the BRZ, and the less than comfortable entry/exit. But that's how most typical "sports cars" are. Since I only test drove it, I didn't really see this as a negative. In fact, I thought it was nice to be able to sit as close to the floor as possible (as opposed to a chair-like sitting position of most cars.) However, I can see how long-term ownership of a car like this can get old and tiring.

In regards to the STI, the luxury and quality of materials of this car have come a long ways. Despite all the luxury and quality amenities it has, it is still one of the most purists cars money can buy this side of $50k (or any price for that matter). Hydraulic steering, manual only, etc. Also, owners of these cars are some of the biggest car enthusiasts around. Literally every single one will wave at you, talk to you about your car if given the chance, etc. Resale value is amazing. Even with thousands of these being built, they hold their value as well as any mass-produced car. I can only fathom what these cars would sell for in the used-car market if only several hundred were ever produced (read 1M).

Back on topic...I guess the OP said it well. The FRS/BRZ is really a "you either love it or you hate it" type of car. I'm sure you were in the "love it" camp when you first bought it, but quickly jumped ship to the other side. Just like you, I'm in the love it side after just a test drive, but could easily see myself changing sides after a long-term ownership (or a few loses to a Camry/Accord in a straightline contest. ;-) ) After getting out of the BRZ and into a 135i, it literally "felt" like going from a sports car into a sedan, straightline speed aside.

Yes, I did love it. However, as time went on, I felt like the base model FR-S was too lacking in features. I wanted to have convenience features like moonroof, heated seats, navigation, climate control, and of course more power. I was willing to give up some handling and rawness for it. Enter the 135i.

I feel like a car like the FR-S would work for me as a second car, but if I did ever get one, I might as well go full-on impractical and get a Miata instead. Maybe I'll save up money for a few years and get a used ND Miata when they hit the used market.

[champignon]

A lot of people on this board make the mistake, in my view, of looking at the 1-Series as a sports car, instead of what it really is, which is the end of the line for the segment of car that BMW invented, e.g. the "sports sedan."

One can quibble with the word "sedan," in that the 1-Series only has 2 doors and hence is called a "coupe," and whatever a two door convertible is called :-) The reality is that the 1-Series is about the same size as the 3-Series used to be, before it got turned into a bloated pig. The 1-Series could have been designed with 4 doors, but I guess that is not where the powers that be wanted to position these cars, so 2 doors it was. But the basic design and structure is "sports sedan," not "sports car," and not really "coupe," in the sense that most coupes don't have boxy shapes and "sports coupe" is really a synonym for "sports car" in most cases.

So the 1-Series is a little, boxy, sporty car, but not a "sports car." It drives and handles like its predecessors but not like what has followed it, which is why we value it for what it is, the end of the line of the real BMWs.

Comparing a 1-Series car to a BRZ/FRS is really a pretty pointless exercise, because they do not operate in the same space, they are not designed to do the same things, and they have very different target audiences, even though both groups of audiences are rather small niche audiences.

[Jeff01234567]

Originally Posted by champignon

A lot of people on this board make the mistake, in my view, of looking at the 1-Series as a sports car, instead of what it really is, which is the end of the line for the segment of car that BMW invented, e.g. the "sports sedan."

One can quibble with the word "sedan," in that the 1-Series only has 2 doors and hence is called a "coupe," and whatever a two door convertible is called :-) The reality is that the 1-Series is about the same size as the 3-Series used to be, before it got turned into a bloated pig. The 1-Series could have been designed with 4 doors, but I guess that is not where the powers that be wanted to position these cars, so 2 doors it was. But the basic design and structure is "sports sedan," not "sports car," and not really "coupe," in the sense that most coupes don't have boxy shapes and "sports coupe" is really a synonym for "sports car" in most cases.

So the 1-Series is a little, boxy, sporty car, but not a "sports car." It drives and handles like its predecessors but not like what has followed it, which is why we value it for what it is, the end of the line of the real BMWs.

Comparing a 1-Series car to a BRZ/FRS is really a pretty pointless exercise, because they do not operate in the same space, they are not designed to do the same things, and they have very different target audiences, even though both groups of audiences are rather small niche audiences.

I've always considered most BMW coupes (E82 and E46 generations back) to be "2-door sedans" because it still has the body shape of a sedan but with 2 doors, similar to how Mercedes calls its CLA and CLS "4-door coupes".

And yes, I know the FR-S and 135i are worlds apart and meant not to be compared, but since I made the switch I thought I might as well see what's different about the two. Neither one is "better" than the other.

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

I've spent some time in both the BRZ and the Miata. I've found both of them to be uncomfortable gutless tin cans. Yes I know the Miata is a cult car with a large following, but I think most of their owners would prefer a BMW.

If you visit a Miata forum, owners complain a lot about lack of power and spend a lot of time and money trying to find ways to improve it. Unfortunately, the engine isn't easy to modify. Cosworth made an unsuccessful supercharge kit for it, but the engine had a problem staying together. There are turbo kits, but they require constant attention to the tune to keep pistons inside the block.

What is the point of either car? Well they are cheap, light, and fairly agile which means they'll quickly go around corners. I guess that's good for auto crossing, a pointless activity. For those who feel they missed their true calling as Formula One drivers, they can hit the track without spending a lot of money.

As for what the One is, it is a sporty car, sports sedan, sports coupe, or anything else you'd like to call it. Certainly the Ultimate Driving Machine deserves at a minimum, the accolade of sports car.

[Gangplank]

It's a sports car. Check out some of the videos posted by 1spirit. The 135i makes one heck of a "sports car" with just some suspension and tire upgrades. He makes nice work of miatas and others on track. His driving and video skills don't disappoint & worth the watch.

Via the 1er: Experience The King of Laguna Seca! http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1241900

[Fume]

Originally Posted by champignon

A lot of people on this board make the mistake, in my view, of looking at the 1-Series as a sports car, instead of what it really is, which is the end of the line for the segment of car that BMW invented, e.g. the "sports sedan."

One can quibble with the word "sedan," in that the 1-Series only has 2 doors and hence is called a "coupe," and whatever a two door convertible is called :-) The reality is that the 1-Series is about the same size as the 3-Series used to be, before it got turned into a bloated pig. The 1-Series could have been designed with 4 doors, but I guess that is not where the powers that be wanted to position these cars, so 2 doors it was. But the basic design and structure is "sports sedan," not "sports car," and not really "coupe," in the sense that most coupes don't have boxy shapes and "sports coupe" is really a synonym for "sports car" in most cases.

So the 1-Series is a little, boxy, sporty car, but not a "sports car." It drives and handles like its predecessors but not like what has followed it, which is why we value it for what it is, the end of the line of the real BMWs.

Comparing a 1-Series car to a BRZ/FRS is really a pretty pointless exercise, because they do not operate in the same space, they are not designed to do the same things, and they have very different target audiences, even though both groups of audiences are rather small niche audiences.

I think this hits the nail on the head. There's a spectrum between something purely meant to be a sports car and something that's a luxury sedan with no hint of sportiness. People have always loved BMW because, out of the 3 german luxury brands, it seemed to always have much more of a lean towards creating a sporty driving experience with good handling and driving feel while not really compromising too much on the luxury component that makes a car easier to live with and drive every day, which is a great thing IMO. Now we might mod the cars to adjust it to be even sportier but the base design was always a good compromise.

BRZ/FRS is in a different category in what level of compromises its trying to make in terms of liveability and sportiness at the price point it's targeting.

[tjswarbrick]

I tried to love the BRZ/FR-S. Drove one before selling a C230 for the 1er.
I almost could've lived with the slowness (still faster then the Merc with its 200HP 2.5V6.) But the engine sound and the torque dip, right where it should start rising, killed that for me.
And the interior really didn't feel up to snuff.

I always wanted a small BMW sports sedan because they give the sportiness of a good GT without compromising refinement and they feel really good to drive, whether you're pushing it in the twisties, bombing down the freeway, or shuttling family around. I'm afraid the 1 does need some suspension work to get it there, but it's close enough to be a worthwhile start while sorting through the options and saving up the cash.

I guess I'd say the 1's suspension is less compromised than the twins' powertrain.
And nearly everything else about it is spot-on to it's mission. Though it doesn't hurt that a few bolt-ons and a tune can net gobs more power...
Welcome to the fold!

[e92ben]

Congrats! And welcome! As some of these posters on here. I too hated the frs-brz from the first time i drove it. So underpowered! Enjoy the 135i! Happy modding

[Converted1]

HPDEs are pointless now? Only on a car forum will you find people who ridicule the very activity we enjoy.

Getting hung up on the tool is pointless, the thing we all enjoy is the skill and sensation of driving.

Originally Posted by Mr Rooty Von Tooty

I've spent some time in both the BRZ and the Miata. I've found both of them to be uncomfortable gutless tin cans. Yes I know the Miata is a cult car with a large following, but I think most of their owners would prefer a BMW.

If you visit a Miata forum, owners complain a lot about lack of power and spend a lot of time and money trying to find ways to improve it. Unfortunately, the engine isn't easy to modify. Cosworth made an unsuccessful supercharge kit for it, but the engine had a problem staying together. There are turbo kits, but they require constant attention to the tune to keep pistons inside the block.

What is the point of either car? Well they are cheap, light, and fairly agile which means they'll quickly go around corners. I guess that's good for auto crossing, a pointless activity. For those who feel they missed their true calling as Formula One drivers, they can hit the track without spending a lot of money.

As for what the One is, it is a sporty car, sports sedan, sports coupe, or anything else you'd like to call it. Certainly the Ultimate Driving Machine deserves at a minimum, the accolade of sports car.

[Esteban]

After reading all the hype, I was pretty excited when the BRZ/FRS came out. Low power and a cheap build quality made me lose interest quickly. If I wanted (but don't) a lightweight, good handling, inexpensive track toy, I'd look at the Mazda Miata, which is what the twins are mostly compared to. Here's a pretty good video of the Miata vs the BRZ. I'm sure most have already seen this video, but it's still fun.

[Mega Man]

I came from an 1998 Integra Type-R to my 135i. The Integra was bone stock, and I drove it pretty much the same as I drive the 135i. I got pulled over more times with that car than i care to recall.

I've never been pulled over in my 135i, and I've put all kinds of work into it. My street/highway driving habits are exactly the same as they were when I had the Integra.

Now, I loved that Integra - IMO, it was the perfect front-wheel drive car, and a perfect daily driver that could get some track use. But the amount of attention it got is what made me get a 135i. I could not go anywhere without worrying about it being stolen. I couldn't go anywhere without people trying to race me all the time.

In a more modern example, my friend with a BRZ and I were at a stop light leaving from somewhere. He was going to go right at the next light, and I was going to go straight, so we were next to each other. Light turns green, we both accelerate (not even hard), police lights up, and they pulled him over. For what? No front license plate. I also have no front license plate - but he's the one that got pulled over. Maybe a 50/50 chance there, but I'm guessing it's the make/model of car that got the cops attention.

TL;DRMy point to all these anecdotes - enjoy your BMW and the benefits that you get along with it as a daily driver. You'll most likely get more out of it than the FR-S in more ways than just driving it.

[bandydesign]

What do they say about great minds?



I've got a first gen miata and a 135i, my roommate has an FR-S. All are great cars in their own right. The 1 makes an incredible daily driver and has all the nannies you want in your day to day and enough power to punch in with the big boys on the highway with handling to keep you entertained. Something about a lightweight car just adds fun factor I don't see in the 1, but I love both cars. The FR-S will deservedly fit in the place of the miata when they drop in price. All the care that went into designing a car that is easy to work on and easy to convert into a racecar will show up once these cars are cheap in the second hand market.

All this to say I wouldn't sell my NA for anything, but I'm not getting rid of my 1 any time soon either :P

Congrats on the 1er!

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Mega Man

In a more modern example, my friend with a BRZ and I were at a stop light leaving from somewhere. He was going to go right at the next light, and I was going to go straight, so we were next to each other. Light turns green, we both accelerate (not even hard), police lights up, and they pulled him over. For what? No front license plate. I also have no front license plate - but he's the one that got pulled over. Maybe a 50/50 chance there, but I'm guessing it's the make/model of car that got the cops attention.

It would make sense that the cops would pull over the BRZ instead of your 1er because the BRZ looks more of a "boy racer" and your car is more grown up looking. Of course, don't know if you had your Slek CF hood on at the time, which might be an attention grabber for the cops, not to mention your other mods. Also, don't know what mods your friend had on his BRZ that might catch the cops eye.

Funny, I've lived in California all my life and never had a front plate and never been pulled over for it. Don't think most cops out here really care about that unless they're looking for an excuse to pull you over. Some cops are just dicks.

[Suprgnat]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Funny, I've lived in California all my life and never had a front plate and never been pulled over for it. Don't think most cops out here really care about that unless they're looking for an excuse to pull you over. Some cops are just dicks.

Hell, I got a ticket for no front license plate parked at a Park-and-Ride by an officer looking for low hanging fruit instead of dealing with the theft and vandalism.

[Gangplank]

Nevada has the best front plate law I've heard of.

NRS 482.275 License plates: Display.

(2) If the motor vehicle was not manufactured to include a bracket, device or other contrivance to display and secure a front license plate, and if the manufacturer of the motor vehicle provided no other means or method by which a front license plate may be displayed upon and secured to the motor vehicle:

(a) One license plate must be attached to the motor vehicle in the rear; and

(b) The other license plate may, at the option of the owner of the vehicle, be attached to the motor vehicle in the front.

[Mega Man]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Of course, don't know if you had your Slek CF hood on at the time, which might be an attention grabber for the cops, not to mention your other mods. Also, don't know what mods your friend had on his BRZ that might catch the cops eye.

I've gotten pulled over for no front plate on my Integra which was bone stock.

The BRZ had no mods on it, I had everything listed in my sig except the CF hood at the time.

[Huecifer]

Whether you guys like it or not, the 1 and the BRZ are comparable, because, as many people have already stated, they COMPARED the two when shopping. Whine all you want about how different they are and how they're aimed at different markets, but at the end of the day, they are comparable cars that have been compared by many people, including myself.

The interior is embarrassingly bad on the BRZ, and the engine and power delivery is not very good. I was excited because the chassis setup (down to even the wheel size) was the same as my old IS300 - which had the best handling balance of any car I've ever driven and it had an inline 6 that puts ours to shame. But I couldn't get past that shitty engine in the BRZ. If they put the 2JZ from the Lexus into the BRZ (giving it a better power to weight than a 128i), i could definitely get over the crap interior, lol.