01-07-2010, 10:28 PM | #1 |
My gift Registry: M2
119
Rep 1,432
Posts |
M1 engine speculation
Will it be N54 with added Valvetronic and fixed hpfp?
Will it be N55 with valvetronic and second turbo added on, as rumors suggest? The truth is somewhere in between. N55 with 2 small turbos, rather than 1 big one would get my vote. |
01-08-2010, 02:09 AM | #2 |
Banned
3161
Rep 9,134
Posts |
The' N55's come with valvetronic and a single [twin-scroll] turbocharger...
http://paultan.org/2009/05/27/new-bm...tronic-engine/ http://www.autoevolution.com/news/th...gine-7096.html http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...55-engine.html |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 03:00 AM | #3 |
Major General
417
Rep 6,968
Posts |
I have to be honest and say that I am a little bit disappointed with the potential engine choice. One of the reason that M cars have been special is every M model had its dedicated, distinct M division designed engine, not shared with the regular BMWs until the release of X6M and X5M. Almost a copout or cutting the corner. Something about tweaking an existing turbo engine for more power that doesn't sit right with the M philosophy, almost AMG like now.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 04:15 AM | #4 | |
Banned
3161
Rep 9,134
Posts |
There is a real strong chance it might be powered by a high revving turbocharged 4-banger of sorts
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 05:37 AM | #5 |
Captain
32
Rep 930
Posts |
That would be cool but I doubt it. BMW are still going to build on their strong heritage with straight 6 cylinder engines, particularly with an M model. I think they would struggle to convince people (particularly Americans) to pay M prices for a 4 cylinder car regardless of how good it actually was.
__________________
2009 123D Coupe | Sedona Red | Black Boston Leather | Brushed Aluminium Trim | Tinted Windows | M-Sport Package | 6M | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Park Distance Front & Rear | USB | Bluetooth | Voice Control | Efficient Dynamics | Rain & Light Sensors | Xenon Lights
My blog: http://urbanemusings.wordpress.com/ |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 06:52 AM | #6 |
Major
240
Rep 1,289
Posts |
Agreed. Over the holidays I was in talking to my sales advisor...just BSing car talk. I was inferring how great it would be if M would reincarnate the E30 M3 and bring back a 4 pot turbo beast in the potential M1. He shook his head and said the same thing. It would be an impossible sell to the general American public. BMW and 4 cylinders just don't go hand-in-hand here in the states. At least not anymore.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 06:52 AM | #8 |
Banned
141
Rep 2,042
Posts |
I personally think they will use a modified version of the N55. However there has been mention of a high revving 4 cylinder turbo. Might as well buy a Subaru STi if that is the case!!
I would only be seriously tempted to upgrade from a 'ordinary' N54 135i if they offered the high-revving V8 from the M3. They really need to put this engine in a more compact car imho. The new 201x M3 will eventually get an even more powerful engine (to distance itself from the M1) so this could work. Eitherway, the engine in the M1 has to be deserving of 'M' status; ie: it has to have balls and its own unique 'M' character....and make all the right sounds! |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 07:45 AM | #9 |
Lieutenant General
2148
Rep 10,176
Posts |
Scott26 has mentioned that the Tii WILL make a production return with the F20 1 series. It makes total sense that it will have a 4 cylinder turbo, much moreso than an M variant of the 1 series.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 08:02 AM | #10 |
Captain
32
Rep 930
Posts |
Agreed, 4 cylinder Tii yes, 4 cylinder M1 no.
__________________
2009 123D Coupe | Sedona Red | Black Boston Leather | Brushed Aluminium Trim | Tinted Windows | M-Sport Package | 6M | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Park Distance Front & Rear | USB | Bluetooth | Voice Control | Efficient Dynamics | Rain & Light Sensors | Xenon Lights
My blog: http://urbanemusings.wordpress.com/ |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 08:41 AM | #11 |
Brigadier General
192
Rep 4,848
Posts |
I am no engineer, but is it possible to have a second turbo operating at above 5.5k on the N55? You'll have your Twin Scroll for normal driving, but as it pass 4.5 k, the 2nd turbo kicks in?
Just looking at the design of the S54 engine, it is really an evolution of the I6 - more displacement, and wider range of valtronic adjustments. I don't see how this would be different to adjusting the turbos, especially if they adjust both the turbos and play with the valve timing.
__________________
Macan S Diesel - Carrera White
Macan Turbo - White 1///M - Valencia Orange |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 08:48 AM | #12 | |
Lieutenant General
4972
Rep 10,200
Posts
Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
|
Quote:
Future models of the 1 series are rumored to be getting 4 cylinder engines, one of which could be for the next ///M1, in the form of a TT 4 cylinder engine pushing out over 300 BHP....
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 09:10 AM | #13 |
Captain
11
Rep 685
Posts
Drives: 91 300ZX Twin-Turbo, 2010 135i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
|
As I said before,
take the N55 and add: Stronger, higher flow valve-train (8000RPM rev limit) ONE twin-scroll Garrett GTX 4294R (or 4202R if it won't choke the engine at redline, smaller turbo would be more responsive)http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ochargers.html Then watch as the reviews and praise for the outstanding engine and suspension roll in. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 09:27 AM | #14 |
Banned
76
Rep 5,970
Posts |
This car needs to have AT LEAST 350Hp to be relevant, and it's not going to come from a 4 cylinder.
A sequential turbo system, as mentioned above might be the answer. IMO the M1 needs to have a better top end than the N54, and for a twin turbo setup that means increasing the size of the turbos, which also increases spool times. With a sequential system you can have a small turbo to build good low end torque with good throttle response and highway power, and a larger turbo that comes online in the upper RPMs to extend the useable powerband all the way to the redline. The rumors have mentioned a twin turbo version of the N55, but they've also said that it would be substantially different from the existing setup. That makes me think it's going to be a sequential system as is being used on some of the diesels. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 12:56 PM | #15 | |
Major
74
Rep 1,001
Posts |
Quote:
hmmmm. The original E30 M3 was a 4-cyl, the E36 was kind of an afterthought, and havent all the 5-series and up been V8's? Maybe Im mistaken, but I don't see that the 6-cyl is really any sort of a pedigree with ///M. I recall in reading about the N55 that it will not be the performance-oriented engine. It has a redline of 5800RPM, IIRC from reading about it. There are a few good threads if you search the board, that give some more decent insight. I would imagine that if it is NOT, say, a highly boosted, high-rpm 4cyl that shaves major weight while adding power... that it will be a DCT or higher-torque handling transmission tied to a boosted N54 that is constantly in "overbost mode" or whatever they call it on the z4isdrive3.5whatever... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 01:23 PM | #16 | |
Captain
32
Rep 930
Posts |
Quote:
Then of course there is the 635CSi, the original E28 M5 (which incidentally used the same I6 out of the M1), the E34 M5, the original E24 M6, etc etc. And that is without mentioning any of the fantastic recent I6 interpretations: the 130i, the 135i, 335i, 535i, 635i, 328i, 530i, 730i..... Z4 M coupe and roadster (almost forgot them). Z1 also had an I6, Z3 (ok that was a bit crap but the engine was still good...). So yes, I think you might be mistaken. The inline 6 cylinder engine has enormous pedigree at BMW.
__________________
2009 123D Coupe | Sedona Red | Black Boston Leather | Brushed Aluminium Trim | Tinted Windows | M-Sport Package | 6M | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Park Distance Front & Rear | USB | Bluetooth | Voice Control | Efficient Dynamics | Rain & Light Sensors | Xenon Lights
My blog: http://urbanemusings.wordpress.com/ |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 01:25 PM | #17 | |
Colonel
702
Rep 2,548
Posts
Drives: '08 135i, '88 325is
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denver, CO
|
Quote:
EDIT: Looks like 123D-M beat me to it.
__________________
Delivered in Munich, broken in on the Nurburgring.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 01:29 PM | #18 |
Captain
32
Rep 930
Posts |
Just a tiny bit passionate about BMW's history...
__________________
2009 123D Coupe | Sedona Red | Black Boston Leather | Brushed Aluminium Trim | Tinted Windows | M-Sport Package | 6M | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Park Distance Front & Rear | USB | Bluetooth | Voice Control | Efficient Dynamics | Rain & Light Sensors | Xenon Lights
My blog: http://urbanemusings.wordpress.com/ |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 01:52 PM | #19 |
Colonel
702
Rep 2,548
Posts
Drives: '08 135i, '88 325is
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denver, CO
|
I can tell. Nothing wrong with that.
__________________
Delivered in Munich, broken in on the Nurburgring.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 02:10 PM | #20 |
Captain
32
Rep 930
Posts |
From Wikipedia article on "straight six engines":
BMW introduced its first straight 6-cylinder engine in 1933. It developed straight-six engines for the post-World War II era by adding two cylinders to its M10 four-cylinder design. In 1968, it introduced a M30 straight-six design with the same 30-degree slant, overhead camshaft layout, and 100 mm bore spacing as the four. It originally intended to follow up with a V8 engine line in the early 1970s, but when the 1973 oil crisis hit, BMW canceled its V8 plans and concentrated on refining and enlarging its straight-six lineup.[11] These included a smaller straight-six in 2.0 and 2.3 litres (120 and 140 cu in) displacements (the BMW M20), versions of the larger BMW M30 up to 3.8 L (230 cu in) (the S38B38); and beginning in 1983, a series of M21 straight-six diesel engines. In 1986, BMW introduced the M70 V12 which was essentially two 2.5 L (150 cu in) straight-sixes on the same crankshaft. In the mid-90's, they produced a series of straight-6's based on the M50 architecture, the ultimate of which was the 330-360 hp S54, used up to 2006. Currently, a straight-six is offered in the BMW 1 Series, BMW 3 Series, BMW 5 Series, BMW 6 Series, BMW 7 Series (Euro models), BMW X3, BMW X5, BMW X6, and BMW Z4. I'd totally forgotten the small capacity straight sixes used in the 3 series in the 80's.
__________________
2009 123D Coupe | Sedona Red | Black Boston Leather | Brushed Aluminium Trim | Tinted Windows | M-Sport Package | 6M | Comfort Access | Heated Seats | Navigation | Park Distance Front & Rear | USB | Bluetooth | Voice Control | Efficient Dynamics | Rain & Light Sensors | Xenon Lights
My blog: http://urbanemusings.wordpress.com/ |
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2010, 02:26 PM | #22 |
Captain
23
Rep 601
Posts |
Seeing BMWs current trend of using turbo engines (new 5,GT,7 series, X5M, X6M), I def. think it will be a turbo'd engine. The most logical would be the N55 variant with a larger twinscroll turbo or could even be the same engine but with increased boost. BMW is on a Turbo binge and i personally think its cool, although their N/A engines will always be remembered
__________________
--2009 BSM 135i-- -Manual, Sport Package, BMW Assist |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|