BMW 1-Series reliability

mkaresh · 01-06-2009, 12:44 PM

Thank you for confirming that the UK offerings are the same as those on the continent.

One thing I haven't decided upon is how to handle engine specs, since much of the rest of the world uses kw and nM. I've been converting these to HP and lbs-ft, and could have the program convert them back for members outside the U.S. This will probably lead to some minor discrepancies, though.

123D-M · 01-06-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Thank you for confirming that the UK offerings are the same as those on the continent.

One thing I haven't decided upon is how to handle engine specs, since much of the rest of the world uses kw and nM. I've been converting these to HP and lbs-ft, and could have the program convert them back for members outside the U.S. This will probably lead to some minor discrepancies, though.

hmmm tricky. Most people in Europe would understand HP as we use that as well as KW. But personally lb/ft are meaningless to me and I always have to convert to Nm. If you round to zero decimal places the conversions should be pretty accurate.

mkaresh · 01-06-2009, 01:04 PM

I entered all of the powertrains for the 3 earlier, and when I converted them to HP many that should be the same didn't quite match any available in the U.S. This might be because the calibration differs a bit, but I also think that BMW likes to round the numbers down in the U.S.

warmtoes · 01-06-2009, 01:32 PM

And, were you using SAE or DIN horsepower numbers? Those two differ in terms of calculation method.

123D-M · 01-06-2009, 01:39 PM

well...
the 123d is 204hp which is 150kw and 295lb/ft of torque which is 400Nm
the 120d is 177hp which is 130kw and 258lb/ft of torque which is 350Nm

can you just input them manually?

mkaresh · 01-06-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warmtoes

And, were you using SAE or DIN horsepower numbers? Those two differ in terms of calculation method.

SAE. But if you look at BMW's U.S. HP numbers, they almost always end in a 0 or a 5. So they've been rounded in many cases. Convert the U.S. numbers to kw, and they'll not match the European specs as a result. They'll only be off by 2 or 3, but this still might confuse people or make them think the site is full of errors.

mkaresh · 01-06-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 123D-M

well...
the 123d is 204hp which is 150kw and 295lb/ft of torque which is 400Nm
the 120d is 177hp which is 130kw and 258lb/ft of torque which is 350Nm

can you just input them manually?

Inputing the engines is easy. Coordinating the codes across model years is the tedious bit. I need a better way to manage the database. And also a better database structure. Problem is that there's always something else that needs doing more...

mkaresh · 02-05-2009, 11:54 AM

Updated results were posted today. I've been expecting the reported repair rate to improve for the 1, since last time it was well above that for the 3, and I see no reason for this since the two models are closely related.

Well, the new result of 89 repair trips per 100 cars per year isn't much lower, and remains nearly twice that for the 3. One of the reasons: a few reports of cracked and/or dislodged 3rd brake light lenses. This is a part unique to the 1.

A big thanks to everyone who has been helping. We'll have further updates in May, August, and November, so additional participants would certainly be helpful.

We now have a separate results page for each model. The one of the 1:

BMW 1-Series reliability comparisons

jotapeh · 02-05-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkaresh

SAE. But if you look at BMW's U.S. HP numbers, they almost always end in a 0 or a 5. So they've been rounded in many cases. Convert the U.S. numbers to kw, and they'll not match the European specs as a result. They'll only be off by 2 or 3, but this still might confuse people or make them think the site is full of errors.

Just for the record, as one of the main people doing bmw.ca, the numbers are handed to us by BMW AG... and a lot of them look drastically different from EU models

mugennosora · 02-05-2009, 01:12 PM

signed up

mkaresh · 02-05-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jotapeh

Just for the record, as one of the main people doing bmw.ca, the numbers are handed to us by BMW AG... and a lot of them look drastically different from EU models

Thanks for the info. If you could dig up an explanation for this, I'd love to know it. Are the engines actually much different, or just the ratings systems / policies?

jotapeh · 02-05-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Thanks for the info. If you could dig up an explanation for this, I'd love to know it. Are the engines actually much different, or just the ratings systems / policies?

Honestly I could not tell you why, BMW AG doesn't really have to justify itself to us

The biggest thing I noticed though was that Canadian vehicles seem to be rated for a much, much lower max. gross load.. on the order of 70 or so kilos for some vehicles... and seem to have (on average) higher curb weights.

That said QA is not a high priority for these numbers and I would not be surprised if you find a statistic or twelve that is completely out of whack on bmw.ca... But if you do, let me know and I can fix it.

mkaresh · 02-05-2009, 02:34 PM

Higher curb weights could follow from higher levels of standard equipment. I'm sure some people here know a lot more than I do here, but can't you order a BMW in Europe with a lot less stuff on it?

As far as I can tell, many curb weights from many manufacturers are BS. Sometimes a car gets a new engine, yet the curb weight stays the same. Does the new engine weight exactly the same amount the old one did? Not likely.

The max load--could be a matter of regulations, and how much of a buffer is expected. Or maybe we get different brakes, cooling systems, and/or tires?

On QA: I regularly check many different auto sites. They ALL have plenty of errors.

mkaresh · 03-02-2009, 01:43 PM

I apologize that I still haven't found the time to input the European powertrains. They're coming, just extremely busy, and not enough hours in the day.

The May results are fast approaching. We especially need more 2009s, to see how their repair rate compares to the 2008s.

Many 2009s here?

Car reliability research

mkaresh · 03-02-2009, 01:48 PM

Request to an admin/mod:

I just noticed that this thread has been moved from the general discussion to maintenance. Can it be moved back? I'm trying to provide the best possible information to the community. Placing this thread in the servicing forum could lead to distorted results, based on who is most likely to visit the servicing forum.

mkaresh · 03-28-2009, 11:40 AM

Guess I should try a PM...

Anyway, in a few weeks we'll start previewing the next set of results to participants. More always helpful. Especially need 2009s.

Details:

Car reliability research

mkaresh · 04-26-2009, 09:42 AM

That was one of the sources I ended up using, thanks.

Updated results in May. More participants always helpful. Especially need more 2009s.

Auto reliability research

mkaresh · 05-28-2009, 11:37 AM

We've updated the results for the 1-Series to include owner experiences through the end of March. A big thank you to everyone who helped make this result possible.

With a repair frequency of 79 repairs per 100 cars per year, the 2008 has improved to about average, but still close to "worse than average." A common problem: the third brake light seems to have a tendency to detach from the trunk lid.

These cars are of course young, and it remains to be seen how they'll fare as they age. With prompt quarterly updates, we'll track them closely. The more participants we have, the better the information we can provide.

Especially need more 2009s.

BMW 1-Series reliability comparisons

mkaresh · 07-02-2009, 11:38 AM

103 1-Series owners now signed up. A good start, but more are needed to provide precise results for all model years. Especially need more 2009s.

Car reliability research

Lionel Hutz · 07-02-2009, 12:22 PM

As to your comparison to the 3-series above, are you comparing all 1s to all 3s? I think you would see a significant statistical difference if you compared just the 135 to the 335, or 128 to 328. My impression is that a high percentage of 1s are "35" spec with the N54 engine, but a much lower percentage of 3s have the N54 engine.

Seeing as how the N54 is inherently going to require more servicing, you might want to compare the two cars based on engine type.

michael_eng · 07-03-2009, 05:01 PM

joined...best of luck with the site!

Double Nick · 07-04-2009, 12:21 PM

I climbed on board.

01-06-2009, 12:44 PM	#23
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	Thank you for confirming that the UK offerings are the same as those on the continent. One thing I haven't decided upon is how to handle engine specs, since much of the rest of the world uses kw and nM. I've been converting these to HP and lbs-ft, and could have the program convert them back for members outside the U.S. This will probably lead to some minor discrepancies, though.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-06-2009, 01:04 PM	#25
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	I entered all of the powertrains for the 3 earlier, and when I converted them to HP many that should be the same didn't quite match any available in the U.S. This might be because the calibration differs a bit, but I also think that BMW likes to round the numbers down in the U.S.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-06-2009, 01:32 PM	#26
warmtoes Lieutenant Colonel 31 Rep 1,917 Posts Drives: EBII 435i xDrive Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (1)	And, were you using SAE or DIN horsepower numbers? Those two differ in terms of calculation method. __________________ *2014 EBII 435i xDrive M-sport* Gone: 2011 TiAg F25 X3 xDrive35i M-sport Gone: 2008 TiAg w/Coral Red E88 135i Cab M-sport
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01-06-2009, 01:39 PM	#27
123D-M Captain 32 Rep 930 Posts Drives: BMW 123d M-Sport Coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Madrid, Spain iTrader: (0) Garage List 1965 Citroen DS19 P ... [0.00] 2009 123D M-Sport C ... [10.00] 2009 Mazda6 [0.00]	well... the 123d is 204hp which is 150kw and 295lb/ft of torque which is 400Nm the 120d is 177hp which is 130kw and 258lb/ft of torque which is 350Nm can you just input them manually? __________________ 2009 123D Coupe \| Sedona Red \| Black Boston Leather \| Brushed Aluminium Trim \| Tinted Windows \| M-Sport Package \| 6M \| Comfort Access \| Heated Seats \| Navigation \| Park Distance Front & Rear \| USB \| Bluetooth \| Voice Control \| Efficient Dynamics \| Rain & Light Sensors \| Xenon Lights My blog: http://urbanemusings.wordpress.com/
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02-05-2009, 11:54 AM	#30
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	Updated results were posted today. I've been expecting the reported repair rate to improve for the 1, since last time it was well above that for the 3, and I see no reason for this since the two models are closely related. Well, the new result of 89 repair trips per 100 cars per year isn't much lower, and remains nearly twice that for the 3. One of the reasons: a few reports of cracked and/or dislodged 3rd brake light lenses. This is a part unique to the 1. A big thanks to everyone who has been helping. We'll have further updates in May, August, and November, so additional participants would certainly be helpful. We now have a separate results page for each model. The one of the 1: BMW 1-Series reliability comparisons
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-05-2009, 01:12 PM	#32
mugennosora Master Wang 37 Rep 444 Posts Drives: YMB 2016 M3 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Framingham MA iTrader: (3)	signed up
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02-05-2009, 02:34 PM	#35
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	Higher curb weights could follow from higher levels of standard equipment. I'm sure some people here know a lot more than I do here, but can't you order a BMW in Europe with a lot less stuff on it? As far as I can tell, many curb weights from many manufacturers are BS. Sometimes a car gets a new engine, yet the curb weight stays the same. Does the new engine weight exactly the same amount the old one did? Not likely. The max load--could be a matter of regulations, and how much of a buffer is expected. Or maybe we get different brakes, cooling systems, and/or tires? On QA: I regularly check many different auto sites. They ALL have plenty of errors.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-02-2009, 01:43 PM	#36
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	I apologize that I still haven't found the time to input the European powertrains. They're coming, just extremely busy, and not enough hours in the day. The May results are fast approaching. We especially need more 2009s, to see how their repair rate compares to the 2008s. Many 2009s here? Car reliability research
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-02-2009, 01:48 PM	#37
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	Request to an admin/mod: I just noticed that this thread has been moved from the general discussion to maintenance. Can it be moved back? I'm trying to provide the best possible information to the community. Placing this thread in the servicing forum could lead to distorted results, based on who is most likely to visit the servicing forum.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-28-2009, 11:40 AM	#38
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	Guess I should try a PM... Anyway, in a few weeks we'll start previewing the next set of results to participants. More always helpful. Especially need 2009s. Details: Car reliability research
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-26-2009, 09:42 AM	#39
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	That was one of the sources I ended up using, thanks. Updated results in May. More participants always helpful. Especially need more 2009s. Auto reliability research
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-28-2009, 11:37 AM	#40
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	We've updated the results for the 1-Series to include owner experiences through the end of March. A big thank you to everyone who helped make this result possible. With a repair frequency of 79 repairs per 100 cars per year, the 2008 has improved to about average, but still close to "worse than average." A common problem: the third brake light seems to have a tendency to detach from the trunk lid. These cars are of course young, and it remains to be seen how they'll fare as they age. With prompt quarterly updates, we'll track them closely. The more participants we have, the better the information we can provide. Especially need more 2009s. BMW 1-Series reliability comparisons
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2009, 11:38 AM	#41
mkaresh Second Lieutenant 18 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 2000 Lexus GS 400 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0)	103 1-Series owners now signed up. A good start, but more are needed to provide precise results for all model years. Especially need more 2009s. Car reliability research
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2009, 12:22 PM	#42
Lionel Hutz Lieutenant 228 Rep 509 Posts Drives: '24 X5 50e Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	As to your comparison to the 3-series above, are you comparing all 1s to all 3s? I think you would see a significant statistical difference if you compared just the 135 to the 335, or 128 to 328. My impression is that a high percentage of 1s are "35" spec with the N54 engine, but a much lower percentage of 3s have the N54 engine. Seeing as how the N54 is inherently going to require more servicing, you might want to compare the two cars based on engine type.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-03-2009, 05:01 PM	#43
michael_eng Registered 0 Rep 3 Posts Drives: not a one series...yet Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH iTrader: (0)	joined...best of luck with the site!
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07-04-2009, 12:21 PM	#44
Double Nick Private 16 Rep 84 Posts Drives: 135i Man/CR/Taupe. 5/08/09 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tallahassee, FL iTrader: (0)	I climbed on board. __________________ '09 128 BSM-Taupe/AT("Snoppy") my wife's. '09 135 CR-Taupe/MT/BMW Performance Exhaust("Red Baron") my bad boy. Peacefully sharing the same garage.
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